Mac Tutorials

#1 Yah, I need someone to shine some light on this too. Everyone knows Macs are better, why didn't they make a tutorial?

#2 No need to get in to the PC wars discussion. :) No Mac tutorials tells me what I think I need to know about buying this product or not, Mac's are not fully supported.

Anyone know what the return/refund policy is with the indie version of Torque? No one has bothered to respond to that email either.

Thank you.

#3 Actually, from my understanding, the mac version is fully supported. The reason there are no mac tutorials is becouse most people own PCs.
The windows tutorials should work for the mac versions as well. (eccept for some of the resources) with just adding in the mac exe.
Give the tutorials a try and find out.

#4 I'm not sure what specific tutorials you're looking for, but I'm developing on the Mac with TGE and TLK with only a few specific issues, most of which will probably be settled in the next point release. Just about every resource I've needed has worked fine on the Mac, and most of the stuff in the TGE books and other online tutorials work just fine on the Mac side, as long as you're not talking about some real advanced stuff that is specific only to Windows.

There are definitely some issues with respect to development tools for the Mac, but once Constructor comes out this will likely become a non-issue. Otherwise, I've learned everything I've needed to so far...

#5 Hey some resonses! Thanks guys.

When I used the word *supported*, I meant it in terms of resources, I see that TGE runs on a Mac - the demo ran fine. Without many other Mac users of the product, that it what I would refer to as *not fully supported*. The few specific tutorials I ran across all had Windows executables that accompanied them, these will not run on a Mac. I was just looking for a few tutorials that I could use to learn this product. And I wanted to see what the return policy is in case I don't find TGE useful or fun to use.

I am an experienced programmer using REALbasic, seven years, it's a great product that is fully *supported* on the Mac platform. i.e. many thousands of enthusiastic users.

Not sure what Constructor is.

#6 Sorry for the confusion, Thomas.

Constructor is GarageGames' level-building program for creating DIFs. Right now there aren't any real good solutions for building DIFs on the Mac side, although with the new Intel Macs you can probably run some of the Windows apps without much trouble. Constructor is, as they say, coming...probably in the next couple of months. Once that happens, then development on the Mac side should be pretty equivalent.

As for resources and tutorials, there aren't tons of Mac developers out there but there are enough, and GG has guys that work on Mac development who provide advice and assistance when needed. But for the most part, resources and tutorials around here will work regardless of the platform. I'm not sure what tutorials you've found that come with EXEs, perhaps it would help to point them out.

If you're referring to the tutorials that come with the books (3DGPAIO and GPGT), then that's a slightly different story, but there are ways to work around that on the Mac side. Besides, most of what you'll learn from those books is script-based, which is generally platform-independent.

Hope that helps.

#7 Thank you Rubes, that does help somewhat. Although, I don't know what you mean by DIF's either - sorry. I don't own a new Intel Mac yet. There are some beta apps that will allow MacIntels to run WIndows, you have to buy or already own the PC OS to do this. I was not referring to any of the books, just online tutorials.

Frankly, I'm used to being able to use a demo version that you can fool around with before making the decision to purchase. And since there have been no replies regarding refund policy, I don't want to waste your time with any more questions right now.

Again, I appreciate your replies! Thank you.

#8 @Thomas: No problem...TGE does give you a demo, and you can play around with it as long as you want. Note that Torque consists of the C++ engine (which is compiled into the game application) and script code, which are basically just text files written in TorqueScript. You can create or modify script files whether or not you purchased TGE, you just can't see or modify the C++ code for the engine.

For most games, you will want and need to make some modifications to the C++ engine. However, much (if not most) of your game-specific code will be contained within script files. So the demo gives you the ability to see what the C++ engine can do, plus it gives you the ability to experiment with TorqueScript to your heart's desire. The demo games that come with TGE (the FPS demo and the Racing demo) are two script-based games that show you how you can use different scripts with the same pre-compiled C++ engine to create entirely different but complete games. If you wanted, you could go ahead and create a whole new game just using TorqueScript and the TGE demo application before even considering purchasing a license.

Getting to know TGE and its capabilities is, for most people, getting to know what scripts are, how they interact with the C++ engine, what you can do with them, and how much you can do with them without having to modify the C++ code. So the TGE demo pretty much gives you everything you need to get to know TGE. You could literally spend months learning it, experimenting with it, and becoming proficient in scripting before deciding you want to purchase a license. So I would just say, download the demo, spend time learning scripting and modifying the scripts that come with the demo, and decide later whether or not you want to purchase a license.

Many of the tutorials found here and elsewhere are entirely script-based, so you can experiment with them. Many, though (particularly the various resources) do require engine modifications, so you would need to purchase a license to experiment with those. But for the basics of learning Torque, you will likely spend most of your time only in script, so the demo will serve you fine.

As for DIFs: Torque uses two basic file formats for shapes, DTS and DIF. DTS is the file format Torque uses for detailed 3d objects, while the DIF format is generally used for interiors (buildings and other architectural objects). Here is a quick explanation from Matt Fairfax's excellent FAQ on the subject:

Quote:"You create dts models in one of the standard modelling packages (Max, Maya, Lightwave, Truespace, Blender, Milkshape) and export them into a dts file (which is a custom/proprietary file format that Torque uses).

"Dts models are your standard polygonal, uv-mapped models. They can be any size/shape you like. They can include animations. However, they are limited on collision and lighting.

"Dif models (or interiors as they are commonly referred to in Torque) are created in specialized brush-based editors (Hammer, Quark, Radiant, WED, Cartography Shop, Torque Constructor). The geometry is pieced together out of of convex primitives (convex meaning no "dents" or "indentations" like a pyramid, cube, sphere) instead of by manipulating triangles, edges, or vertices."

You can get most of the standard modelling packages for the Mac, but right now there are no really decent brush-based editors for the Mac. Torque Constructor will fill this void, but it won't be released for a little while yet.

Edit: Another excellent Matt Fairfax explanation of DIFs and DTSs can be found here, if you're interested.

#9 Ah, sheesh, now I get it, that's a great explanation! Thank you very much, sorry to be so dense. :)

Looks like I need to find the docs and start learning the script language then.

#10 No problem at all...Though I will say, there is a steep learning curve at the very beginning. I highly recommend one of the TGE books as a starting point. I really like The Game Programmer's Guide to Torque...but to be honest, the only real way to learn it is to just dig in and get your hands dirty.

Good luck!