Can you think "outside the box"?

#1 I don't get what you're getting at.
What would be the point of not communicating directly?
MMORPG's seem to be designed primarily for that purpose.
If you don't want to communicate, then don't play
multiplayer games.... or if you are referring to
having to communicate indirectly, then you must mean
through the game in some manner... but you also said
no NPC's so what is it that you are trying to get at?

#2 This seems to run counter to why people play MMP games. Community and communication is why these games are great.

Jeff Tunnell GG

#3 easy. your bacteria inside a human body and you talk through electrical impulses.

or

your an ant and you talk through the movements of your "feelers" or if your the queen through scents.

why anything like this would be much fun i dont know.

#4 er..I said "not even with NPCs"...there can be as many NPCs of any type as you wish...but they cannot communicate with language...

I'm trying to cultivate a discussion...trying to see what we can come up with...playing around with ideas...the principal is simple...drop some feature that isn't really a feature anymore...something that is so commom we take it for granted...something that helps hold us within "the box"...

You are right in that this challenge is ment to design a new way to communicate in game with other players and NPCs...hopefully with a way that is important to the game...something the game could design itself around...I don't want to do away with in game communication between players and NPCs...I just want to break the static state of game design

A couple of simple ideas for a MMORPG that would not have a "chat feature"...

Animals...players take on the role of different animals...sorta like those old Lion and Wolf games from Sactionary Woods

Music...players chose an musical instirment to "master" (like choseing a charactor class)...The game world could be bult around music...being both "magical" and a "universal language" so to speak...it's the most important thing in this world...use some imagination :)

#5 MSW,

I guess that depends on your definition of 'Role-Playing' in MMORPG. I see the assumption of a specific role in the world as an important factor in role-playing games. From this perspective, even Tribes is an RPG. Albiet a very shallow one.

I could see a musical RPG where each player's actions produces music, and they have an 'ambiance' around them as well. So, like Black & White, if you're a bad person you're score would be dark and low, while a good person would be happy and fluty.

You could eventually recognize people by their ambient scores if they were stable enough.

Another basic idea is cartoon-world like. Where player's actions are a form of communication. Players' avatars could communicate 'thinking' by scratching their heads, and 'idea' by a lightbulb popping over their heads. Much of this could be automated through a system like Tribes' voice chat menu. I had a list of over 300 emotes from old MUDs/Chatboards which could be used almost exclusively to communicate with in this manner.

--Bryan

#6 I was thinking along the animal idea. A large MMP virtual ocean where players play fish. You start small and grow your fish to be the largest (possible changing species along the way). This would be a 3D world and players would principally spend their time swimming around looking for food, avoiding predators and learning about life in the ocean. Basic interaction would involve following other players to look for food, grouping together for protection (schooling), etc. Smaller fish would probably live in coral reefs, large fish players may decide to brave the open waters. Exploration, and possibly some education, would be the main goals. Besides simply being the biggest fish in the ocean :)

I think players would be ok for a while with no direct communication whatsoever, but eventually they would get frustrated. I don't think it would take much to keep people going though, a few simple emoticons or concepts icons would probably suffice. Such as: Hello, Bye, Follow Me!, Food!, Danger!, :), :(

#7 Well, my "Poochie Park" idea was based on this.. (going to call it Paradise Park now I think).

The problem of direct communication is that its bad if your going to have kids interact with it. You can filter sentances for bad language, but there are many many ways around this.

What I would favour is doing a range of emotional animations, and have those portray what the character is "feeling". From there, the interactions are basically like a kids playground. Most times kids dont actually speak when theyre playing games, they learn the rules, then just play the game. I see this being the same.

So if you give the characters simple tools, like blocks, marked area's (like hopscotch), things to climb on (and off for things).

Its basically a collection of schoolyard games in a very friendly environment.

Phil.

#8 I like these last two ideas alot.
Please see my post:

www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=forums&page=result.thread&qt=476

#9

#10 Maybe it's just me but a purely emotion type game where you talked through emotions would be kind of boring and not bring many people in your game. Yes we take chatting for granted in our games, but is that really a bad thing? The main point of an MMORPG is to bring togehter people as a community or even a group. Tehy enjoying conversing with each other, and grouping together to take down a kill. IMHO this idea (no offense) would be dead after a few minutes as people would get fustrated trying to explain things without words in a game.

#11 I agree that a MMORPG like I suggested, prolly wouldn't be very popular...but that wasn't my point...

and really, if we "indy" developers only try to make popular games...we would only wind up doing the exact same dozen games the industry now produces :P

#12 One way some animals (octupus for one) communicate is through changing colour. An octopus will present a certain colour pattern to a prospective mate and a different pattern to a rival and so on and so on.

The question would be whether to explain the colour lexicon to the players. If you did it would make a game easier but remove a level of complexity.

If they have to work out the colours for themselves then it may draw te player in more. And as you get more advanced at the language maybe move from basic colours to patterns.

One day we could all be like the octopus. (well...)

#13 I really like this discusion! It is suprising to me that half the posters really don't get it.. Imagine that YOUR game is internet based, most of you already assume that.. however realise that the english language is only spoken by 20 percent of the worlds population... therefor if you reallly want your MMORPG to be HUGE you will need to get rid of the language based comunication i.e. chat! I for one don't see this as a problem.. in fact i think it will be a great thing,.. I hate typing, and would rather play the game to communicate my feelings any way! further i think keyboard suck I like console controles, an analog stick or two, a few buttons, and thats it no way to type. . .. ... if you can't fit your interface on a console controler,. you really don't know what your doing! in game communication should be through movement, dance, music, colour, and just plan blasting the sh*t out of the player you don't like!

#14 "...and just plan blasting the sh*t out of the player you don't like!"

Exactly the point of one of my concepts! Okay, so it's not an RPG, but instead a huge cross between C&C and Civilization, realtime strategy game. No words are needed, just a simple, 'If you're in my way, I'm coming through!', idea! Even more appealing about the game is the fact that non-human races are used to further strengthen the barrier against using language.

I hope I didn't go to far... nah, don't think so!

I've been working on this one for about 5 years now, and I'm just starting to get some fluid artwork made for it, the design's already there!

Good subject though, didn't think anyone would try it besides me!

#15 I probably won't have the time to read all the posts here... But...
From what I read already...

Maybe the point isn't to think outside of the box, but to think deeper into it, making it uniquely interactive, I think that would be a much greater challenge than making it not interactive at all, and be more fun as well.
Make it to where everything, including NPCs, all have communication(if desired) with the characters, and interactivity.
Make it to where you have to be able to trade and have certain skills to get further in the game, and maybe even some sort of popularity thing(of course there'd need to be ways around that for people who aren't popular), but, you get my point...
Now to try and see if I can read the rest in time...

#16 I do get the point of different communication. I think it would be interesting to see how well you could do in certain scenarios without direct communication, and have to use dynamic forms of communication and code to communicate ideas and what to do with other characters. That would be interesting, but then you'd still need direct communication in a lobby, or else there wouldn't be enough human interaction. It's a game, but people sometimes come online for the community to play with, and get to know people, make friends, that sort of thing. I would never rule out the chatting completely, but maybe for scenario types, it could be a challenge, and random scenarios would protect and add on to that.
That would be interesting.
I think I am full of ideas tonight. :)

The idea of music is neat, it couldn't be too interactive or else it'd be all music playing, not much fun, but if the player could choose from songs or beats to communicate feelings, that would be very interesting. Like playing a sad song theme for sadness, and dancing music if you are happy, and working music, drama, all that.

I think we may really be onto something here...
If we could incorporate both systems of needing direct communication, like in towns, and then in the fights, you have to maintain complete silence and communicate through other forms, not even being able to chat, then it would be a really fun game, increased realism, more limitations in areas, less in other areas, making the game seem completely interactive to the point where the user is immersed in the world as an entire world, not just a game.

#17 Sorry for three posts, but I am reading along and afraid my computer will screw up and I'll loose all I write.
I guess I am more innovative than I thought..

This type of game could me single player as well as multiplayer, have a story line, but exclude the player from certain things in battle, so many things would be a surprise to them. Maybe even have real time system for towns and finding out news. People start off in different areas and actually have to spend time traveling to other areas, and then they can communicate, and lots of news that happens locally, in battles, and other things, would take time to reach places, not arrive instantly.

I think it would be neat to have chat, but still be able to incorporate a universal language through music, colors, or even actions telling a person to do something, like giving an order, but it would be a general action, and different languages of the game would have their exact translations, meaning you could literally give your japanese friend on the other side of the world detailed orders to attack a town, and not a word of it be through direct chat, all still being understood.

I am thinking more of an RPG now, something truly unique and dynamic.

If you like these ideas... Just wait until you see what I can write for a storyline. :))

#18 Okay...
If you think about it.. Many online multiplayer games already exclude chat in general. Much of the time is spent on playing the game, and there isn't much you can do turn wise, an action game, and you don't have the time to chat very much.
For example, games like starcraft, in battle there is very little chatting.
It is fun this way because the game keeps the player busy, the player doesn't not want to chat, but doesn't have the time away from the game to chat.
This would be necessary if an idea was to succeed without communication, it would need to keep the players busy, with goals, or general gameplay, to the point where chatting would be a waste of time.

I'd rather make an RPG with online options that is completely dynamic in realism.
Something that requires strategy and is different from the rest of the games....

Innovation would probably be the key to the success of our companies and the games themselves.
I think that innovation will be what makes, or breaks most of the companies and people in these forums.

#19 Well i play online extensivly and acually i think the lobbys\chat rooms and general communication in the end goes towards killing the game, mabe it gets too freindly or whatever but some, most on some servers just sit and yap they hardly ever play, it also IMHO goes against the whole idea in some part of role playing, thats my 2 cents worth anyway.

#20 I think you couldn't be more wrong.

There are games like Multiplayer Battle Tech Solaris that have been around for many years just because they have such a rich communication system. If you took at the communication, you would have nothing. Some games don't require it as much, but a good communication system can keep people coming back and keep people in the games. Many people don't play very much, they just chat. They enjoy talking to people a lot, and if they make friends, they will come back to see them if they get tired of the game and they couldn't make any friends, they will drop it. These people are dedicated to the game because of the community.
In many games people want to establish groups or families, where they can be in multiple online multiplayer games in the same group name, and without communication, it wouldn't be possible at all.
If you take out chat in general, from inside or outside the game, the chances are you are actually taking away life from the game.

Maybe we should go even deeper than groups, maybe have people as set teams or relatives in the games, so they have to get along and have communication to win the game. My recommendation is to make it more interactive and realistic, maybe make it where the chats are more about the game than real life. Make it where the players have to communicate in multiple ways with the environment.
If you take out chat, I think you will piss people off and they won't like the game.
People like human interaction, many play the games online because they have that interaction, and they get that through chatting, if you take away the chat, you take away a lot of fun most people would be getting from the game.
You can limit the abuse of overchatting through good programming and design techniques to keep the players busy, and not let them stall other players(timers, etc.).