What 3D Suite would you recommend?
by Dark Tengu · in Artist Corner · 05/27/2006 (1:01 pm) · 31 replies
Recently I have been considering getting a 3D suite (modeler, UV tools, animation, etc.) and I'm not sure which one to get. I have been looking at a couple of them online. I have narrowed it down to the following (though I am still open to suggestions):
1. Lightwave 3D 8 - I've heard nothing but good things about it. If I purchase now I will get a free update to version 9 and Vue Infinite for free. Price $795.00
2. Cinema 4D 9.6 - I'm pretty interested in Cinema 4D. One of the main reasons is that I can buy Bodypaint 3D 2.5 down the line for a significant discount. Price $695.00
3. SoftImage XSI Foundation - Looks interesting and the price seems pretty good. One problem is it doesn't have a poly reduction tool in Foundation :(. Price $495.00
4. ZBrush 2 - I would LOVE to own this. However, I hear that it is worthless for low poly creation (I can't confirm this). I think that it still might be worth my time down the road in addition to an all-around 3D suite (i.e. Lightwave, C4D, etc...). No animation :(. Price $489.00
No before everyone starts screaming Blender, I just want to say that I have played around with it. I have no doubt that I could learn the interface. There is just isn't a whole lot of resources for the software. The tutorials and very low quality and assume too much, IMHO. I'm still open to the idea but DEFINATELY leaning toward Lightwave.
Any opinions/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
1. Lightwave 3D 8 - I've heard nothing but good things about it. If I purchase now I will get a free update to version 9 and Vue Infinite for free. Price $795.00
2. Cinema 4D 9.6 - I'm pretty interested in Cinema 4D. One of the main reasons is that I can buy Bodypaint 3D 2.5 down the line for a significant discount. Price $695.00
3. SoftImage XSI Foundation - Looks interesting and the price seems pretty good. One problem is it doesn't have a poly reduction tool in Foundation :(. Price $495.00
4. ZBrush 2 - I would LOVE to own this. However, I hear that it is worthless for low poly creation (I can't confirm this). I think that it still might be worth my time down the road in addition to an all-around 3D suite (i.e. Lightwave, C4D, etc...). No animation :(. Price $489.00
No before everyone starts screaming Blender, I just want to say that I have played around with it. I have no doubt that I could learn the interface. There is just isn't a whole lot of resources for the software. The tutorials and very low quality and assume too much, IMHO. I'm still open to the idea but DEFINATELY leaning toward Lightwave.
Any opinions/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
#2
What about blender? (ok, not really :) )
Jokes aside, there are other free things you can look at:
5. SharpConstruct - Basically an open source clone of ZBrush. Not tried it myself, but i've heard its good (as far as free goes at least).
6. Anim8or - 3D Modeling tool with animation (no IK though). Supposedly someone was making a torque exporter for this, though i don't know if they gave up or not.
I have bumped into a few other things, but tbh, 90% of them are even worse than blender, or miss important features (e.g. animation).
Keep in mind whatever tool you decide to use, you will need to learn how to use it. Make sure it has good documentation and tutorials :)
05/27/2006 (2:20 pm)
Marcus,What about blender? (ok, not really :) )
Jokes aside, there are other free things you can look at:
5. SharpConstruct - Basically an open source clone of ZBrush. Not tried it myself, but i've heard its good (as far as free goes at least).
6. Anim8or - 3D Modeling tool with animation (no IK though). Supposedly someone was making a torque exporter for this, though i don't know if they gave up or not.
I have bumped into a few other things, but tbh, 90% of them are even worse than blender, or miss important features (e.g. animation).
Keep in mind whatever tool you decide to use, you will need to learn how to use it. Make sure it has good documentation and tutorials :)
#3
05/27/2006 (2:30 pm)
I'd have to say Lightwave, since i use it exclusively. My favorite part about Lightwave is the interface. No icons, just words that say exactly what it is. No guess work. Plus the fact it's separated into two separate applications.... To some, they think that means it's limited. But in reality, it's all about the interface again. When animating you only have buttons for animation. So it's not filled with buttons you don't need. The two applications are linked so any changes made are updated between the two.
#4
Consider which ones have DTS exporters. Only Lighwave has one that's available. XSI's is in beta.
Be sure to compare their upgrade prices, since you'll probably want to upgrade to new versions later. 3d studio Max may look good to you when you consider that maintenance is less that $500/yr.
Don't ignore 2d rendering. XSI uses Mental Ray, and is quite good at rendering.
You might want to look into Hexagon 2 for 3d texture and displacement painting. You can get it for $32 from Daz if you buy it before the end of this month.
05/27/2006 (2:41 pm)
Get them all :). Seriously, a few words of advice:Consider which ones have DTS exporters. Only Lighwave has one that's available. XSI's is in beta.
Be sure to compare their upgrade prices, since you'll probably want to upgrade to new versions later. 3d studio Max may look good to you when you consider that maintenance is less that $500/yr.
Don't ignore 2d rendering. XSI uses Mental Ray, and is quite good at rendering.
You might want to look into Hexagon 2 for 3d texture and displacement painting. You can get it for $32 from Daz if you buy it before the end of this month.
#5
to you. Some like tradishional UI's setups with drop down menu's icones some don't my pic out of them wood be SoftImage XSI 5.1 cheap and powerful tool. lots of online tutorials including video.
www.edharriss.com/tutorials/tutorials_all.html
www.xsibase.com/tools/external.phpl
www.softimage.com/education/learning_resources/tutorials/default.aspxl
05/27/2006 (3:02 pm)
All the 3D tool in you list have should have demo's i wood say try them all see whats most comfortableto you. Some like tradishional UI's setups with drop down menu's icones some don't my pic out of them wood be SoftImage XSI 5.1 cheap and powerful tool. lots of online tutorials including video.
www.edharriss.com/tutorials/tutorials_all.html
www.xsibase.com/tools/external.phpl
www.softimage.com/education/learning_resources/tutorials/default.aspxl
#6
I can't find the $32 price. Where would I go to find that?
@Ramen Sama
How is texturing in Lightwave? I really like the idea of 2.5D paintin as in ZBrush and Modo.
05/27/2006 (3:48 pm)
@"Laser" LouisI can't find the $32 price. Where would I go to find that?
@Ramen Sama
How is texturing in Lightwave? I really like the idea of 2.5D paintin as in ZBrush and Modo.
#7
05/27/2006 (4:13 pm)
See that the "Platinum Club" price is only $1.99. First you'd need to join Daz's Platinum Club; it costs $29.95 to join, and membership is $7.95/month.
#9
05/27/2006 (5:57 pm)
I've been playing with Hexagon for a few days and so far I'm really liking it. Daz is a really great place for fun & cool software.
#10
05/27/2006 (6:25 pm)
Other free one is 3d WINGS where you can export objs and can use for 3ds max, maya and others.
#11
BodyPaint 3D is a simply amazing and is available for Lightwave.
www.maxon.net/pages/products/bodypaint3d/bp3d_r2/bp3d_2_lw_e.html
But lightwaves native texturing is good. It supports all your traditional types of texturing. Included Subpatched UVs as well.
There's numerous plugins available for lightwave with texturing in mind.
05/27/2006 (7:57 pm)
@MarcusQuote:
How is texturing in Lightwave? I really like the idea of 2.5D paintin as in ZBrush and Modo.
BodyPaint 3D is a simply amazing and is available for Lightwave.
www.maxon.net/pages/products/bodypaint3d/bp3d_r2/bp3d_2_lw_e.html
But lightwaves native texturing is good. It supports all your traditional types of texturing. Included Subpatched UVs as well.
There's numerous plugins available for lightwave with texturing in mind.
#12
I have not given up on the Anim8or conversion program, it's just taking longer than I expected - A LOT LONGER. I have not been able to work on it much the past couple months, but now I am getting to work on it more. I do not have an expected release date, but hopefully it will not be more than a couple of months away.
05/27/2006 (8:23 pm)
James,I have not given up on the Anim8or conversion program, it's just taking longer than I expected - A LOT LONGER. I have not been able to work on it much the past couple months, but now I am getting to work on it more. I do not have an expected release date, but hopefully it will not be more than a couple of months away.
#13
The only problem is that there is no C4D exporter (that I am aware of). What does it take to write an exporter? I am "ok" at coding/scripting. I guess I could always take it through Milkshape.
05/27/2006 (9:04 pm)
I was very interested in BodyPaint 3D because it looks very intuitive. It makes it look painless to avoid distortion caused by a mesh being converted to a 2D form. Wouldn't it be more effective (cost efficient) for me to buy C4D for $695 and then upgrade to the BodyPaint 3D module for $495? It beats Lightwave for $795 and then another $795 for BodyPaint 3D?The only problem is that there is no C4D exporter (that I am aware of). What does it take to write an exporter? I am "ok" at coding/scripting. I guess I could always take it through Milkshape.
#14
If you wanna take a look at what's involved....
www.gnometech.com/lwdtsdownload.shtml
Dave has the source code to a much ealier version of the exporter.
I'd love for him to release the updated source for me to dabble with.
05/27/2006 (10:16 pm)
Hmm i dunno. how much is your time worth? i'm positive it'll take longer to write an exporter then it'd take for you to earn that money with your day job. :)If you wanna take a look at what's involved....
www.gnometech.com/lwdtsdownload.shtml
Dave has the source code to a much ealier version of the exporter.
I'd love for him to release the updated source for me to dabble with.
#15
Yeah, there are no exporters for C4D. You can use obj2dts to convert static obj files. If you know someone with Max, Maya or LW, you should be able to use FBX to transfer your models for export. I'm sure that you can use Blender or Milkshape to export your animated characters somehow; "if there's a will, there's a way," but that way might be slow and hard to find.
Writing an exporter is a very involved project. It certainly takes more than a few days to complete one.
You'd probably want to use the DTSSdk and DTSSdkPlus, which come with TGE.
BTW, if you're interested in writing an FBX to DTS exporter, which can work with C4D, let me know; I can help.
05/27/2006 (10:27 pm)
My opinion is that its best to get tools that you prefer, regardless of price. Yeah, there are no exporters for C4D. You can use obj2dts to convert static obj files. If you know someone with Max, Maya or LW, you should be able to use FBX to transfer your models for export. I'm sure that you can use Blender or Milkshape to export your animated characters somehow; "if there's a will, there's a way," but that way might be slow and hard to find.
Writing an exporter is a very involved project. It certainly takes more than a few days to complete one.
You'd probably want to use the DTSSdk and DTSSdkPlus, which come with TGE.
BTW, if you're interested in writing an FBX to DTS exporter, which can work with C4D, let me know; I can help.
#16
05/27/2006 (10:45 pm)
It looks like I should probably stick with Lightwave. It is a great program. I'll just have to wait til the end of the summer to buy Bodypaint :( 
#17
I would say LightWave simply because it is what I use (though I now often model my initial meshes in Modo since it is extremely intuitive and has a wonderful workflow). But everyone is different and if you're learning a new package with minimal experience, some packages are harder to learn than others depending on your workflow. But I would say that if you are dedicated to Torque, you should look at the exporter matrix on the artist page and make your decision from there. Blender, Lightwave, Max, Maya, and Game/TrueSpace have good exporters. Milkshape does as well, though it is limited by Milkshape's animation facilities.
A good artist can do wonderful things with Blender. A bad artist could pay $3600 for Max and $10,000 worth of plug-ins and still make crap. Find your target, which sounds like TGE, and then go from the exporter matrix to find the best solution. And also realize that even if BodyPaint is an amazing program, different programs load/save/import/export texture data differently depending on the format (even if standardized) and such things can lead to strange shifts. People tout FBX as an amazing advancement (and it is, though not often for the "it will always work" usage that I often see it used in on different art forums), but each program deals with it slightly differently and changes often have to be made to make it work "just right". Just like any non-native or standardized format in a proprietary system.
05/27/2006 (11:15 pm)
Sometimes I wonder if BodyPaint was a purchased asset from the Detailer days simply because Detailer was amazing (as is BodyPaint) and intuitive. It is strange that the programs that I used in 1996 are sometimes more intuitive and exciting that some of the tools that I use today...and I have no idea what company picked up those tools. BodyPaint feels like detailer in that it mades things very intuitive. ZBrush does as well, though I can't say I'd necessarible recommend it for low-poly models. Normal mapped ones, yes.I would say LightWave simply because it is what I use (though I now often model my initial meshes in Modo since it is extremely intuitive and has a wonderful workflow). But everyone is different and if you're learning a new package with minimal experience, some packages are harder to learn than others depending on your workflow. But I would say that if you are dedicated to Torque, you should look at the exporter matrix on the artist page and make your decision from there. Blender, Lightwave, Max, Maya, and Game/TrueSpace have good exporters. Milkshape does as well, though it is limited by Milkshape's animation facilities.
A good artist can do wonderful things with Blender. A bad artist could pay $3600 for Max and $10,000 worth of plug-ins and still make crap. Find your target, which sounds like TGE, and then go from the exporter matrix to find the best solution. And also realize that even if BodyPaint is an amazing program, different programs load/save/import/export texture data differently depending on the format (even if standardized) and such things can lead to strange shifts. People tout FBX as an amazing advancement (and it is, though not often for the "it will always work" usage that I often see it used in on different art forums), but each program deals with it slightly differently and changes often have to be made to make it work "just right". Just like any non-native or standardized format in a proprietary system.
#18
05/28/2006 (11:24 pm)
C4D and Bodypaint are still pulling hard at me. C4D or Lightwave? What to do? Is there anything wrong with modeling in C4D, Texturing in BodyPaint, and exporting to Milkshape or Blender and then exporting as a DTS?
#19
05/28/2006 (11:29 pm)
C4D and Bodypaint are still pulling hard at me. C4D or Lightwave? What to do? Is there anything wrong with modeling in C4D, Texturing in BodyPaint, and exporting to Milkshape or Blender and then exporting as a DTS?
Torque Owner Sven "RaCooN" Knie
okay I'm only a coder (with some few modeling experience), but if you ask especially for modeling tools for the TGE/TSE you have to use Lightwave.
The other 3 tools don't have exporters for the TGE (dts).
And hey, the price for Cinema 4D is unfair ;-). In Germany you have to pay 699,00 Euro (at the moment this will be $894.72).
But if you have a coder or scripter with C.O.F.F.E.E experience Cinema would be a second choice. With this script language it should be to create an exporter.
-Sven