Considering switching
by D B · in Torque Game Builder · 05/24/2006 (3:20 pm) · 13 replies
I am considering switching the engine of my game from TGE to T2D, but I have a few questions first.
1. First of all, can anything from TGE be transferred to T2D (for example, could I transfer my GUIs over)?
2. Are there any special programs I may need for making content, or can any drawing program suffice for this?
3. I saw that the Beta 1.1 is out and some commercial releases were made for it; if I get the Beta, are there any caveats? Can I use the Beta straight away to make my game?
4. Does the T2D share a lot of similar functions with TGE (such as the schedule() function)?
Thank you for your time. I'm hoping none of these questions come off as too simple.
1. First of all, can anything from TGE be transferred to T2D (for example, could I transfer my GUIs over)?
2. Are there any special programs I may need for making content, or can any drawing program suffice for this?
3. I saw that the Beta 1.1 is out and some commercial releases were made for it; if I get the Beta, are there any caveats? Can I use the Beta straight away to make my game?
4. Does the T2D share a lot of similar functions with TGE (such as the schedule() function)?
Thank you for your time. I'm hoping none of these questions come off as too simple.
About the author
#2
2) Any 2D graphics editor will do.. I use GIMP and Paint.NET but if you have $$ PhotoShop may be best.
3) Many issues were cleared up over the past few Betas and things seem much more stable now.
4) Yep! and some good docos to help.
I also must say the editor is awesome and pleasing to work with. There is no other engine like this (trust me I've looked around) and with such a slick toolset... I don't think anyone interested in making games will regret the purchase of TGB.
05/24/2006 (3:39 pm)
1) Yes! Any TGE .gui, fonts, animated DTS files will work in TGB. 2) Any 2D graphics editor will do.. I use GIMP and Paint.NET but if you have $$ PhotoShop may be best.
3) Many issues were cleared up over the past few Betas and things seem much more stable now.
4) Yep! and some good docos to help.
I also must say the editor is awesome and pleasing to work with. There is no other engine like this (trust me I've looked around) and with such a slick toolset... I don't think anyone interested in making games will regret the purchase of TGB.
#3
I have another question about it, one I meant to ask earlier, but it slipped my mind:
How does T2D handle animations? I've been thinking that having a large number of pngs and jpgs for animations would be rather large in terms of size, and would cause problems there. Does T2D compress the picture files for animations, or does it do something else?
Thank you again.
05/25/2006 (3:53 pm)
Ooh, this sounds pretty nice, that it has an editor going. I also like how GUIs can be transferred over, as well. I like the sound of this! :DI have another question about it, one I meant to ask earlier, but it slipped my mind:
How does T2D handle animations? I've been thinking that having a large number of pngs and jpgs for animations would be rather large in terms of size, and would cause problems there. Does T2D compress the picture files for animations, or does it do something else?
Thank you again.
#4
05/25/2006 (4:28 pm)
Not sure if this is what you were asking but there is no texture compression, and no mention of it in the works.. There are multiple ways to import art, for ex. there's no need to store all of a sprites animations in one big "tiled" image (but you can), if you want you can use 100 separate images for the sprite. The editor lets you put them together and edit the frame sequence/playback options. You can read the .plans of Melv May for a better idea/explaination of how TGB works with textures. 
#5
05/25/2006 (6:01 pm)
One thing to keep in mind is that if you already have animated DTS files, you can use them in TGB. There is no lighting per se, but if your game does not require lighting effects, you can control that with careful texturing.
#6
I wasn't asking about texture compression before; I was wondering about the sprite's files for each frame of animation for a character. Say, for example, the 100 files are each 10 KB (totalling 1 MB), and these 100 files make up every animation frame for one character. Let's also say for example that there are 200 characters needing 100 animation frames each. That would add up to 200 MB, which to me is a lot of space, especially since that's just the characters, and doesn't include anything else, such as the tilemaps, sound effects, music and the coding.
I was wondering if there's a way to compress all of that. Or is that a different topic altogether? Sorry if I was unclear earlier; hopefully I've explained it better this time.
05/25/2006 (8:29 pm)
It's cool that the editor handles the animations with separate files, which was one of the things I was wondering about.I wasn't asking about texture compression before; I was wondering about the sprite's files for each frame of animation for a character. Say, for example, the 100 files are each 10 KB (totalling 1 MB), and these 100 files make up every animation frame for one character. Let's also say for example that there are 200 characters needing 100 animation frames each. That would add up to 200 MB, which to me is a lot of space, especially since that's just the characters, and doesn't include anything else, such as the tilemaps, sound effects, music and the coding.
I was wondering if there's a way to compress all of that. Or is that a different topic altogether? Sorry if I was unclear earlier; hopefully I've explained it better this time.
#7
05/26/2006 (1:19 pm)
If you use PNG you can try different utilities like optipng or pngcrush.. but I think leaving them uncompressed and letting your installer zip them will result in a smaller package (due to no recompression).
#8
I have another question, and hopefully I'm not jumping the gun once again here; I saw in a newsletter that the Early Adopter version is soon to be gone, and one can purchase TGB with or without the C++ Source Code. I did recall reading that any game can be made quite easily without the C++ Source Code, but I was wondering about how the default movement works. A lot of the pictures I've seen were generally from side scrollers, and I was thinking of having more of a God View in 2D, so I've been wondering how I would be able to override the default movement without the C++ source (as the functions are listed in there).
One more question, most likely my last: I know that TGB can make use of most of TGE's work, but I was making use of the VMPlayer resource (for playing music, pausing it, starting at different points in the track, and repeating), which was designed for TGE v 1.3 and 1.4. It required some modifications to the source code, so I was wondering if I would need the TGB Source Code to add that in.
Thank you again for your time.
05/26/2006 (3:40 pm)
Ah, ok. Gotcha. One of the other reasons I was wondering about a good way to compress the files, was so that no one could look through the sprite folders and see future spoilers (based off the pictures)/edit the art, but it wouldn't be a huge deal if they did. =PI have another question, and hopefully I'm not jumping the gun once again here; I saw in a newsletter that the Early Adopter version is soon to be gone, and one can purchase TGB with or without the C++ Source Code. I did recall reading that any game can be made quite easily without the C++ Source Code, but I was wondering about how the default movement works. A lot of the pictures I've seen were generally from side scrollers, and I was thinking of having more of a God View in 2D, so I've been wondering how I would be able to override the default movement without the C++ source (as the functions are listed in there).
One more question, most likely my last: I know that TGB can make use of most of TGE's work, but I was making use of the VMPlayer resource (for playing music, pausing it, starting at different points in the track, and repeating), which was designed for TGE v 1.3 and 1.4. It required some modifications to the source code, so I was wondering if I would need the TGB Source Code to add that in.
Thank you again for your time.
#9
05/26/2006 (4:31 pm)
There is no official way to do that, though I believe the engine being based on TGE 1.4 has support for zipped resources which will hide your art to some degree. There are community developed patches to do encrypted assets, but it requires modding the engine source. Besides those options you can use the "Molebox" product. At least on windows you can.. but there's nothing like that for Mac or Linux. I'm not sure what you meant by "God View" or default movement, but if you're talking isometric there is no easy way to do that just yet. Someone is working on a (very spiffy) Addon to get that going but it won't be free, and it will require source changes. I guess after June 7th you will have to get a +Source license to access the code. If you want to use TGB I'd say now is the time to get it.
#10
05/26/2006 (5:37 pm)
You want a source license if you want to use TGE resources with TGB. Most things that you would have to touch the C++ files in TGE you would have to modify the source with in TGB.
#11
In terms of default movement, I once again have my mind on TGE. I was thinking of the starter.fps movement (up key moves forward, down key moves back, left and right keys sidestep, rather than turn), and I thought of that as the "default" movement for TGE (as I implemented the Advanced Camera/God View resource, changing the original movement).
Regardless, it seems that if I were to get TGB, I will likely be needing the C++ source code.
Thank you again for your help.
05/26/2006 (6:02 pm)
I suppose asking about the zipped resources was jumping the gun a bit (sorry about that =P), but I will look into this Molebox. Also, by God View, I did mean isometric (apologies again for the wrong terminology; I was thinking of the name of the TGE Resource).In terms of default movement, I once again have my mind on TGE. I was thinking of the starter.fps movement (up key moves forward, down key moves back, left and right keys sidestep, rather than turn), and I thought of that as the "default" movement for TGE (as I implemented the Advanced Camera/God View resource, changing the original movement).
Regardless, it seems that if I were to get TGB, I will likely be needing the C++ source code.
Thank you again for your help.
#12
It should be noted that isometric presentation is a subset of the top-down view. Games like Ultima VII and GTA 1/2 utilized a top-down view that was not isometric. Landstalker and Ultima VIII and Final Fantasy Tactics used a traditional iso view and movement scheme. Diablo, while using the traditional view, allowed more freedom of movement than many "traditional" iso engines.
05/27/2006 (10:03 am)
Your movement in a top-down RPG will be closer to the shooter demo than it will be the remapping necessary to make TGE movement work correctly in the same situation. You will have to monitor "turning" your sprites accordingly.It should be noted that isometric presentation is a subset of the top-down view. Games like Ultima VII and GTA 1/2 utilized a top-down view that was not isometric. Landstalker and Ultima VIII and Final Fantasy Tactics used a traditional iso view and movement scheme. Diablo, while using the traditional view, allowed more freedom of movement than many "traditional" iso engines.
#13
That someone would be me. If sanctioned by the GG lads I will be releasing both a binary AND a source
version to cater for the respective binary and source releases of TGB. It will work pretty much the same way
TGB does, so people wouldn't need the source to use it if they only needed the binary.
~neo
05/30/2006 (12:28 pm)
Quote:Someone is working on a (very spiffy) Addon to get that going but it won't be free, and it will require source changes.
That someone would be me. If sanctioned by the GG lads I will be releasing both a binary AND a source
version to cater for the respective binary and source releases of TGB. It will work pretty much the same way
TGB does, so people wouldn't need the source to use it if they only needed the binary.
~neo
Torque 3D Owner Matthew Langley
Torque
2. As long as you can save out to .png and .jpg the program should be fine (which even Gimp can do)
3. 1.1 Beta4 is the latest release that's out... it is getting very stable and the docs are getting much better so I'd definately say it would be a good place to start making your game.
4. TGB does share a lot of the same functionality that TGE does, in fact it has the exact same schedule functions, as well as a lot of other Torque core functionality.
:)