Death of the MMO?

#21 Well, that depends entirly on what circumstances you'd use their sevrices under. If you work at the CIA or and company that keeps confidential documents virtually (which I personally would never recommend) then Google would be an invasion of that companies privacy policy.
Its the same sense that Microsoft Crash Reports potentially invade privacy, or DRM.
I don't think it's comparable to the Smart-Card ID issue or anything in terms of large-ness, but I can see where it would definatly be a problem in places where you need good network security.
But as Kevin Mitnik said, "Security is too often merely an illusion".

As for "helping to jail dissidents in foreign countries", that would be like saying "He went that way" to some cops that asked "Did you see the guy with a stocking on their head?".

#22

Quote:As for "helping to jail dissidents in foreign countries", that would be like saying "He went that way" to some cops that asked "Did you see the guy with a stocking on their head?".

Ooooooooh now there is a point of view that's certainly "in the eye of the beholder"

You could also say it's like saying "Yeah I know these people in a secluded house on the beach." when your family leader Charles Manson asks "I feel like painting the walls with human blood, any ideas?"

However this discourse is probably a little out of scope for a game development forum. Unless... hurm, "The Family" ... would it be a RPG or FPS?
Perhaps something like System Shock, instead of purchasing implants or skills, you use your level up points to "buy" control over other family members, which start as autonomous NPC's not under your direct control, to where you can direct their actions (Utilizing their "immorality points pool" - the bigger it is, the more "immoral" actions they will perform before breaking down and you lose direct control for a while)

Now THERE'S a game idea Uncle Jack would be able to sink his teeth into!

#23 I didn't understand any of the metaphores in that... But I think I understand what you were saying...
Morality is PoV, which is why the Wikipedia article is so often disputed.
I think we should get a bit more back on-topic, though.

#24 I agree. IF the internet is chopped up and run like cable television in America then will indie developers be able to get their downloadable game to the customer without having to fork over big bucks to the phone company. Do you pay one fee to just Verizon? Or do you have to pay a fee to everyone of them (AT&T, Verizon, the Euro companies, etc) seperately so your data doesn't bog down at each ones network?\

As a consumer will I have an MMO package option or will it be available at all. What if Verizon were to decide that indie companies should have no representation on their part of the network so none of us can ever get our product to consumer's on their network because they deem us "violent games"? Then what? What if AT&T and Verizon don't carry GarageGames on their piece? How many of us would never be able to connect to this site no matter that we already pay our ISP for internet access?

Will American indies be able to compete with European and Asian indies who aren't strapped with this two-tier system?

The fact is the telephone companies already are reaping huge profits. They just want more by double dipping. Making the consumer pay on the front end and the companies pay on the back end. Now as a consumer I pay my ISP then as an indie company I now have to pay again for my buisness site to be carried. How can I compete if they decide to make indie's pay the same fee that they charge EA or UbiSoft?

I ask these questions and I don't like the answers I come up with.

#25 All of these end of the world scenarios hinge on one assumption. That is the big companies are going to turn away a lot of business. I'm inclined to believe that if legislation goes as everyone fears it will, a new system will emerge where everyone can get pretty much everything else at a reasonable price. People need to understand that companies are not trying to screw you over. They are trying to get you to pay as much as you are willing to, but they want to do it in the manner that is most agreeable to you and within their ability to deliver.

Ben

#26 Another problem I see is Europe trying to take over DNS. Right now peering and DNS work for national security.

When DARPA designed the internet it was so they could route data around nuked out cities but just changing route programming. I should say better, it was "a" part of the Scope .. not "the" reason...

Anyway this is why it's important for USA to keep control... cause we can use the national security issue to keep our game packets flowing :) (forced peering lol)

Sometimes you use big brother to scratch your back... it's not always gonna hurt ya. (little humor)

#27 "All of these end of the world scenarios hinge on one assumption. That is the big companies are going to turn away a lot of business."

Call me cynical, but I've seen plenty of evidence that the sociopaths running many American corporations will, knowingly or not, readily commit to scorched earth policies the second any outside force threatens to succeed. For these people, it's not about what they have - it's about what they can deprive others (you and I) of. Broadband ISPs are already overselling and throttling at will; now they want to drop your throughput even more and get paid _twice_ for it (oh and raise your rates, again, for "administrative fees"). They know it's not right and there's opposition, so they're looking to line some pockets in Washington DC to force it.

"IF the internet is chopped up and run like cable television in America then will indie developers be able to get their downloadable game to the customer without having to fork over big bucks"

This is _exactly_ what they want. The fact that anybody anywhere can publish on the Internet keeps them up at night and seething with rage. "How _dare_ they create their own IP (nevermind the death grip we have on ours)! How _dare_ they not pay the $69.99 we _deserve_ for basic cable! How _dare_ they have minds of their own that we can't control!" That's what runs through their heads and that's why the legal system in this country is so screwed up to the average person's detriment.

Nobody wants to work or innovate or produce a quality product when it's easier to sue your competitors or purchase legislation. You'd better believe the Internet would be always-on (and monitored at our expense) Survivor repeats in between 22-minute chunks of obnoxious drug/insurance commercials if they could help it. The DMCA was one step, the DTCSA is another, and a lousy bill written by the usual lobbyists and ill-informed political whores (redundant) is going to come up far sooner than we'd like.

Makes me long for the popular portrayal of justice in the Wild West...or at least start to seriously wonder if Ted K (his methods and targets aside) was really so crazy afterall.

#28 "Another problem I see is Europe trying to take over DNS. Right now peering and DNS work for national security."

I don't think Europe wants to "Take over" DNS, it just wants equal control of it along with the rest of the world so we don't get in situations like that where verisign set a wildcard in the route DNS entries such that any non-registered domain in existence forwarded to verisign's search engine. That's a severe breach of trust and the fact the US/ICANN didn't punish verisign for it demonstrates why the US simply can't be trusted with sole control of DNS on the internet.

I see this story quite a lot lately, the story about backbone providers wanting to charge but it seems to be limited mostly to the US, I can't see it effecting other countries much because certainly a lot of European countries still have state-run/regulated/susbsidised by tax telco's/internet backbones. Whilst no doubt charges would be incurred sending data to/from the US it wouldn't effect communication outside of Europe, because of this it'd force US based internet business to up their charges to cover the costs putting the US at an absolutely massive disadvantage to other countries in terms of e-business. This alone is why I don't think the US govt. will ever let this happen.

#29 Http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/internet/06/09/cable.phone.tv.ap/index.html

da-da-da duh duh, the internet bites the dusta! (sung to another one bites the dust by Queen).

#30 I agree with Ian....and Ryan we are so damn greedy, it's just sad. What a worthless existence. You know whats even worse is there is no out-rage from the public, we are takin it up the tail pipe with a confused look on our face.

#31 There is no public outrage because there is almost no media coverage. What little there is is on the internet and not the nightly news. You can't be outraged if you don't know.

#32 That's the problem with a lot of tech issues like the RIAA, DRM, Net neutrality etc. etc. the only place you hear about them are on tech sites, so whilst they have the potential to effect your average joe who knows nothing about what these issues are, your average joe never even knows nor cares about it. It's just a shame some of these things don't get into the mainstream media a little more. The other issue is that when they do they're often horribly biased, many media companies (sadly even our BBC in the UK which we pay for with public money :/) is biased towards firms like the RIAA/MPAA/BPI because frankly they know what side their bread is buttered on wont dare offend them even if it means having to lie to the public.

#33 One word : Poppycock(not a word I use often).

I doubt legislatures would be that stupid. Thousands of businesses rely on the internet. Our economy would collapse.

#34 This sounds a lot like what is being called "internet2". It's currently in use by the US government becouse it's soooo much faster than the normal internet.
This is an interesting thread.

#35 @Mike
You realize that 'internet2' isn't a program or service but is a corporation(that is also known as UCAID). Look it up at www.internet2.edu.

-Okashira

#36 Internet Backbone aggregation is a danger, but it's not going to be the death of MMO's or the internet.
The current system is the way it is and is broken anyways, think about it anyone remember recently when Cogent and Level3 got into a peering dispute? No traffic would flow across one anothers networks for a few days. Afterwards they resolved there differences and now traffic flows normally.
Even IF a single company owned the entire current backbone, another would just step up and offer a new backbone service. If they competed based on price and took a loss for a short time, to cut the throat of Ma Bell and offered a service whereby they do NOT do what Ma Bell is doing, people would move to them en'mass. Especially if webmasters posted on the front of there site "Hey we see you are using ISP xyz, these people are doing what amounts to extortion and have said if we don't pay THEM money they will cut YOUR QoS to our site. Here's a coupon for a free month of service from provider zyx who will provide you excellent service and quality and doesn't participate in extortion games"

You see nothing is more powerful than money, but money isn't truly in the hands of corporations, it's in the hands of consumers. Consumers don't typically stand for mistreatment if they have alternatives, especially if the alternative is cheaper :)

I recommend when this type of thing finally does come down, we as independants band together and slit Ma Bells throat just as quick as we can.

Regards,
Dreamer

#37

Quote:Consumers don't typically stand for mistreatment if they have alternatives, especially if the alternative is cheaper :)

It's really too bad that we've engendered such a Ovis Aries (sheep. ;-) mindset in the modern population. Eventually, Consumers will do so... but it takes a very long time to reach that point.

#38 Everything in America that starts small goes to big corporation eventually, take every technological advance. There are still people that even try to fight against TV. Something that should of been free because you can jut turn it off or change the channel became regulated. Do you think people were outraged then? Sure the thinkers were, now look at what the majority does everytime. They say this will be good we can limit what children see we can get rid of the bad language and the sex etc etc. Now people have always tried to get around this, There are free televisions stations you can get in your home. You need a big satellite dish to do it though (not one of those tiny directtv ones). Do most people do this? no because companies spend such big money on the network shows to keep you watching that everyone wants to keep watching despite the limitations that they do or don't agree with. Internet will one day be the same thing. It started off small people had their little about me web pages that eventually evolved into the mightly annoying blinking text that everyone was amazed by. And has now grown into more an more big bussiness which gets it closer and closer to regulation. Why doesn't everyone go create their own cable networks to do their own thing? it's too expensive. One day people won't do their own thing on the internet because it will be too expensive. Sure people could build an internet 3 but it becomes the impossible circle. You can't build internet 3 because we're all small people without the funds or means, none of the big guys would want to because they make their money off internet 1 and 2, the only guys who would want to fund it would create it and regulate it the way the other ones do. Will it end MMO games? no that is big bussiness, will it make it extremely harder to do indie MMOs eventually. Whats the best thing people can do? Make it big make money and then fight for the little guy but most people don't do that when they get big because they've tasted money.