Torgue Engine, Just a few questions

#1 Use the search Luke, oh sorry Ryan.

Most of this has been discussed many, many times here on the board, but just to summurize:

1) Easy, you only need a good understanding of programming concepts and C++
2) No, a degree in Computer Science is what you need to take any code to it's full potential
3) No, without a good grasp of programming and computer science, it's just a toy
4) Torque uses it's own language: TorqueScript a C/C++ based language
5) If you are serious about programming do attend a College
6) Yes, torque is most certainly a good tool for Hobbyists game developers

But use the search and have a look at all the other threads on Torque

#2 Hi ryan,

Quote:
How easy and fast can i learn to use the engine

That will vary from person to person, previous experience and what you wish to accomplish. Torque has many many features and as such the learning curve is quite steep. However there is plenty of documentation, well written books and possibly the most helpful community in existance to guide you along the way.

Torque has two very helpful, easy to use built in editors. The world editor and a GUI editor. The world editor (in short) allows you to create your world / level including but not limited to skybox, weather effects and terrain, audio emitters, paths for AI, place and manipulate items in that world etc etc. The GUI editor allows for quick creation of all GUI components of your game.

You need not attend colledge to effectively use Torque, or any other engine for that matter though it would be helpful. What you do need is patience, persistance and the right attitude. Keep your first project simple, don't over step your abilities or the abilites of the engine or you'll end up being very frustrated and not very productive.

The last piece of advice I will give you on this subject is not to jump in too deep. Be realistic about your expectations and your initial goals. Learn the engine first, read through the source code, practice and experiment before you commit yourself to any serious project with the engine.

Quote:
I understand Torque has its own language

Torque is written in C++. It can be compiled with vs2005 express edition which is available for free from Microsoft. It has a scripting language called 'Torque Script' or TS for short which exposes many functions from the source, which means you can write your own functions and methods using only script and not having to touch the source code. TS has a C like syntax and is quite easy to learn. Though, for more adventurous projects you will most likely want to modify, add to the source code to meet your specific requirements. Having said that, much can be achieved through TS and if you were only making a generic fps you wouldn't need to access the source code terribly much, most of what you need can be accomplished within TS.

Quote:
So is Torque a good tool for Hobyist or should i look else-where?

Yes, Torque is perfect for the hobbyist, in fact I think you'll find most people using the engine would fall under this category. There are even 12 -13 year old students using the engine! Your programming desires will be met, however you will need more than this to complete a game. You might want to seek out other people to team up with that can handle the artistic side, or you can buy 'content packs' which are basically high quality pre configured models for use with the engine. They are great for stand in art, an example to learn from or even as final content for a game as a last resort.

Lastly, Torque is a great engine but It would be unwise to make a purchase till you've checked out all other possibilites. Check the DevMaster site for details on other available engines. Also, most engines will have a free demo version available for download. I highly adivse downloading as many as you can find to determine which engine has the right feel, features and price for your requirements.

I put a lot of thought in this post and hope it serves you well. Welcome to the indie game scene and good luck with whatever engine you purchase and whatever projects you begin!!!

- Tim

#3 Thanks alot for the replys,
@ Martin Hansen.
Of course id like to go to college the problem is money, ^^.
@ Tim Heldna
wow, Thanks for that very long and very helpful reply,
I guess im going to study C++, seeing how its not one of the languages im familar with,
As for TS, is there a complete documentation of the syntax for it?
I know a few people that can make graphics, even if there not that great.

All in all, i just want to do this for fun, and for the learning experience,
Like i said i love to program and im always wanting to learn more, and i'd be great to make some games while im at it, i'll defiently look at some other engines befor buying,
I have downloaded the Demo for Torgue and easily ran through the starters tut, but that didn't really go into alot of delete, but from what it showed me the World Editor seems extremly easy to use,
i guess all the work comes from coding and modeling,

Thanks again for the help ^^

#4 Something that would be very helpful is to head down to the local bookstore and see if they have a copy of Ed Maurina's book, or Ken Finney's first book on Torque. Each book comes with an engine executable that can be used to program the games in the books and even your own games. They also serve to introduce you to the engine very well. If you decide you do want to make a full-scale game after going through those books, you can make the decision at that time about purchasing the full license. Rather than spend $100, get in over your head, then struggle to keep your head above water and put out money for the books, do it the other way. Pick up one or both books for $35-$70, spend six months to a year with them, and then decide if you want to go the extra mile for a license. I recommend starting with Ed's book if you're somewhat comfortable with code, and Ken's book if you're an absolute beginner.

#5 You don't need an overpriced college diploma. :-)

If you're a motivated self-learner then you should be able to learn whatever you want.

#6 I might be starting a flame war, but I have to ask.

@Ryan J.
Do you think that college/Computer Science is a waste of time and money, and that you can do just as well on your own?

#7 Martin, I feel the cost of computer science degree is over valued.

You can apply this to other areas, if you want, but specifically in the case of computer science I feel this is definately true.

Someone with the motivation and ability to learn on their own can become more proficient in the area than someone that's just taking classes at their local university.

Large corporations just use it as a cut off point so they don't have to look at so many resumes. If you're truly talented then yes a computer science degree is a waste of time and money.

Some will disagree, but at the end of the day you can get a better education on your own at the library much quicker and way cheaper!

If you need a structured environment to learn, then college is probably not expensive enough. It depends on the person, I guess.

#8 Heh well speaking of flame wars,
heres a question
Computer Science or Software Engineering

#9 Depends on what you want to do. If you're looking to strictly write software then go for software engineering. If you want to have a broader scope that doesn't get too far into writing software specifically then go for computer science.

#10 Good place to learn programming if you're on a budget. I have taken a few and have to say they are not bad, I want to take a few other courses, but need more time. Have a look, cheap classes that teach you A LOT!

#11 My opinion, the bottom line is how much drive do you have to learn this stuff? In general, self taught individuals know more of the ins and outs of the respective industry than those with a degree. This is not always true, but in my experiences, the people who have applied for work, who have no degree, but have taught themselves the correct technologies, are more dedicated to, faster and effecient at what they do. This all boils down to a simple concept, it is the leaders who discover, the fallowers who aww.

If you are motivated, want to learn, and have the brain power to pick up on high-level concepts, than self-teaching is the way to go, you will end up with a much more pwerful and impressive resume than those with simply a college degree.

If you are unsure of your abilities, but your smart and can get things done, get a college degree, it will give you an upper-hand over people much like you.

If you are lazy and scratch by everything you do, don't bother, goto BK or McD's. You are likely to make more money as a fastfood supervisor (who in my opinion are way overpaid) than a college degree. (off topic rant)

Torque is powerful, even if you are a 17 year old teenager. But just as with anything else, if you don't have the motivation to learn everything you need to, than it is useless. If you already have basic knowledge of C/C++, than take a crack at it. Start a over-ambitious product, fail, and then look at what you did. After that, you will be ready to tackle a smaller project and actually finish it.

THAT is ALL my opinion and may or may not be true according to your viewpoint. I just had to post on this after I spent countless days with college grad applicants who only knew what they were taught and nothing more (which, lets face it, was not much at all. College is not the place to learn new technologies in the computer industry, unless your are a teacher who spends their time studying).

On the flipside of my argument, a degree does show proof of dedication and the ability to see things through to completion. Which can't be shown with a self taught individual unless they have a portfolio which shows otherwise. The ultimate cool developer would be a self taught, college grad. That means they went above and beyond what the college level courses taught as well as shown the level of interest and dedication to what they want to do.

The one thing I dislike most is someone using money as a reason they can't goto college. Most banks offer student loans to pay for the entire cost of school, and you don't have to start paying on the loan until x years after your graduate. Not much requirements for that kind of loan, so if you are really serious about going to college, than you can goto college, nothing is stopping you.

#12 Well, like i said, i love programming, i didn't start because i wanted to become professinal, just seeing the words C/C++, PHP, Python ect get me excited,
As for the smart thing...not so sure, but Motivation isn't a problem
So programming may just stay a hobby of mine and ill go take out the neariest BK.

#13 Just chiming in on the "how fast can i learn torque" question -

when i first got a job involving Torque i'd never worked with a game engine before, but i had been earning my bread thru 3D programming of various kinds for about a decade, and for me the torque learning-curve was extremely steep. It was like two or three months before i felt i had much traction.

on the other hand, that job had lots and lots of aspects to it which were all about being a collaboration tool and not about being a game at all, so we were trying to make the engine do a lot of stuff it wasn't designed to do. Like building 3D content in-world, for example.

so i think if your project can get started by being a modification of a basic first-person shooter, then yes, definitely you can "learn" (aka "get stuff done") with torque pretty quickly; you can probably have satisfying results in a month. and from there you can get deeper into making the engine do exactly what you want.