How can I use TGE to develope MMORPG game? or is impossible?
by Rosey · in Technical Issues · 05/07/2006 (8:52 pm) · 10 replies
I learned TGE supports up to 128 players in a same game, but we probably will use this engine to develope both a car racing game and a MMORPG game, I know it's perfect to make car racing game, but is it possible to make MMORPG game with this engine? specially the network part, can I design my game with many servers, each server is responsible for a big map which allow 128 players entering, when a player go from a map to another map, he actually switch from a server to another server. or anybody has some suggestion to design the server/client part of a MMORPG with this engine? or I have to rewrite a network part to replace the one in TGE? (that will be too sad:().
Thanks a lot!
Rosey
Thanks a lot!
Rosey
#2
05/07/2006 (9:59 pm)
128 is a fast-action model for "best practices", not a hard-coded number. Managing your data can go much further. 
#3
I wrote it in 11 months, by myself, using TGE and a number of Open Source technologies... We also released simultaneously on OSX and Windows.
The next round of technology will use lessons learned on MoM and will be based on TSE. I have full confidence that TSE will perform well in a MMORPG setting. TGE has already proven itself.
-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games, Inc
05/07/2006 (10:56 pm)
Minions of Mirth has sold steadily since it's launch in December 2005... We'll be offering it for a long time to come. We also patch it frequently with new features and content. I wrote it in 11 months, by myself, using TGE and a number of Open Source technologies... We also released simultaneously on OSX and Windows.
The next round of technology will use lessons learned on MoM and will be based on TSE. I have full confidence that TSE will perform well in a MMORPG setting. TGE has already proven itself.
-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games, Inc
#4
I am sorry, I am new comer, anybody's advice will be meanful for me!
Thanks.
05/07/2006 (11:20 pm)
Hey, thanks! Yes, I got the dreamer's Advanced MMORPG Tutorial from http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=8269, but it said: this series will provide you a build which will support around 50 players in a Role-Playing environment, I really don't know what did it mean by "a Role-Playing environment" here. A MMORPG server system should support thousands even millions of players online in same time, are Dreamer and his crew implementing it? let's say, can I use it to creat a World Of Warcraft?I am sorry, I am new comer, anybody's advice will be meanful for me!
Thanks.
#5
Rosey
05/07/2006 (11:35 pm)
Hi, Josh Ritter. what I saw in http://www.prairiegames.com/ is a released game, not the source code, but what I need is how to create a MMORPG game with TGE in programming aspect. am I lost ? my msn is yanrosey@hotmail.com, welcome anyone to discuss with me!Rosey
#6
?
Thanks!
Rosey
05/08/2006 (12:47 am)
Hi, Josh Ritter. by the way, how many players online at same time does your game support? is it like Thanks!
Rosey
#7
Even for a game like that you'll need to do some engine modifications. Specially network and physics related.
05/08/2006 (3:19 am)
Quote:I know it's perfect to make car racing game
Even for a game like that you'll need to do some engine modifications. Specially network and physics related.
#8
All of this is incredibly complex, can be extremely game specific, and not something that is provided for you out of the box. If you are new to the concepts and technology for this type of server architecture, you can expect years of work to get things right (or an extremely high consulting bill).
It took EQ, WoW, and the rest of the commercial MMOG community years to get things even close to right--I still remember raid areas in EQ that would simply crash after 120 players entered the zone.
05/08/2006 (4:37 am)
What many people starting about thinking about making a MMOG is that even Worlds of Warcraft doesn't support multiple hundreds/thousands/millions of people on one server--there is a server farm and various load balancing mechanisms that balance those people across dozens or even hundreds of actual "servers", as in instantiations of your server code running various subsets of the game space.All of this is incredibly complex, can be extremely game specific, and not something that is provided for you out of the box. If you are new to the concepts and technology for this type of server architecture, you can expect years of work to get things right (or an extremely high consulting bill).
It took EQ, WoW, and the rest of the commercial MMOG community years to get things even close to right--I still remember raid areas in EQ that would simply crash after 120 players entered the zone.
#9
Not even talking about the costs of running a setup like that + support.
Thus a huuuuuge big hats off for Josh and his ability to get MoM flying.
05/08/2006 (5:16 am)
Good post StephenNot even talking about the costs of running a setup like that + support.
Thus a huuuuuge big hats off for Josh and his ability to get MoM flying.
#10
Eve-Online last I checked had upwards of 25k players on the same server cluster. But they've had a number of challenges to get to that figure, its only recently that 100+ players could gather in a system and fight without experiencing extream server lag. With each node servicing several systems its theres also the problem of a system with just a single player in it having horrendous lag because another system (Jita ;) has 400-500 players lagging it out.
Still they've overcome this to a large extent mainly by buying more and more expensive hardware (along with code optimisations) at least according to the dev blogs :)
The point been, in order to support so many players on the cluster eve had to divide systems up smartly between nodes so that popular systems are on seperate nodes. Systems that see lots of fighting (although it occurs in pretty much any system, there are a few choke points that see increased activity) need their own nodes as well.
This optimisation is not something you can do "generically" and support out of the box.
Personally I think anyone that is wanting to make an MMORPG should start off by making an MUD that supports lots of players. That will give you a solid grasp of some of the technical obstacles that you'll need to overcome (you could even work on clustering if you wanted). But it will also make you realise (assuming you havn't) that the hardest part is creating all the content and running the thing.
That aside, muds are great fun to code up :) Theres a great book by Ron Penton on mud programming and several example code bases floating around. Plus its possible to still turn a profit (see skotos) although they've expanded on things I think their core game was a mud based on the DGD codebase (commercial license is very expensive :(
05/08/2006 (6:05 am)
WoW is also sharded with an upper limit per server cluster on the number of player connections afaik. I've heard figures of around 6k players but no idea if thats true.Eve-Online last I checked had upwards of 25k players on the same server cluster. But they've had a number of challenges to get to that figure, its only recently that 100+ players could gather in a system and fight without experiencing extream server lag. With each node servicing several systems its theres also the problem of a system with just a single player in it having horrendous lag because another system (Jita ;) has 400-500 players lagging it out.
Still they've overcome this to a large extent mainly by buying more and more expensive hardware (along with code optimisations) at least according to the dev blogs :)
The point been, in order to support so many players on the cluster eve had to divide systems up smartly between nodes so that popular systems are on seperate nodes. Systems that see lots of fighting (although it occurs in pretty much any system, there are a few choke points that see increased activity) need their own nodes as well.
This optimisation is not something you can do "generically" and support out of the box.
Personally I think anyone that is wanting to make an MMORPG should start off by making an MUD that supports lots of players. That will give you a solid grasp of some of the technical obstacles that you'll need to overcome (you could even work on clustering if you wanted). But it will also make you realise (assuming you havn't) that the hardest part is creating all the content and running the thing.
That aside, muds are great fun to code up :) Theres a great book by Ron Penton on mud programming and several example code bases floating around. Plus its possible to still turn a profit (see skotos) although they've expanded on things I think their core game was a mud based on the DGD codebase (commercial license is very expensive :(
Torque Owner Jon Ferris
In addition, check out Prairie Games: Minions of Mirth... they crafted that out of Torque. I've lost track with them so I'm not sure how far along they are post release but if anyone is close to MMORPG status they are.