Oblivion Re-Rated by ESRB
by Jay Barnson · in General Discussion · 05/06/2006 (12:07 am) · 40 replies
So if you are gonna get Wal*Mart to sell your game, you are going to HAVE to get an ESRB rating. A very costly endeavor, in terms of both time and money. (Unfortunately, one of my local congressmen here in Utah is drafting legislation that would force all of us indies to get an ESRB rating even if we only sell online... I am NOT happy about that!)
So if you DO have to do this, please be sure and remove ANY excess content from your game and make sure that you check for it as part of your QA process. You don't wanna end up like Oblivion.
For those unfamiliar with the Oblivion re-rating from "Teen" to "Mature" (or those who just want a laugh), I've done a translation of the "highlights" of this event thus far into layman's English (or my irreverant interpretation thereof) here:
http://www.rampantgames.com/blog/2006/05/oblivion-re-rating-translated-into.html
I am glad to know that the ESRB at least acknowledges that there's no way they can deal with third-party mods. But I do worry that we're starting down a slippery slope - first with "Hot Coffee", and now with a much lesser offense.
So if you DO have to do this, please be sure and remove ANY excess content from your game and make sure that you check for it as part of your QA process. You don't wanna end up like Oblivion.
For those unfamiliar with the Oblivion re-rating from "Teen" to "Mature" (or those who just want a laugh), I've done a translation of the "highlights" of this event thus far into layman's English (or my irreverant interpretation thereof) here:
http://www.rampantgames.com/blog/2006/05/oblivion-re-rating-translated-into.html
I am glad to know that the ESRB at least acknowledges that there's no way they can deal with third-party mods. But I do worry that we're starting down a slippery slope - first with "Hot Coffee", and now with a much lesser offense.
About the author
Jay has been a mainstream and indie game developer for a... uh, long time. His professional start came in 1994 developing titles for the then-unknown and upcoming Sony Playstation. He runs Rampant Games and blogs at Tales of the Rampant Coyote.
#22
Gentleman, scholar, psychic...
Its wierd...statistically, if you say that every person that will ever commit a violent crime has played a violent video game, you are right a lot of the time...
05/10/2006 (5:29 pm)
Quote: He also successfully predicted a "Columbine-type" incident on national television one week before it occurred, and he also predicted that the DC Beltway Sniper triggerman would be "trained on a sniper video game."
Gentleman, scholar, psychic...
Its wierd...statistically, if you say that every person that will ever commit a violent crime has played a violent video game, you are right a lot of the time...
#23
I bet someone will try to outlaw modding of games. Which would be the same as outlawing using a muffler on your car that was not "original manufacturer" created.
This whole thing is like holding Harley-Davidson responsible for an air brush artist painting a topless female on a bike at Sturgis or for the buyer putting on loud pipes.
05/11/2006 (1:20 pm)
If everygame has to go through the ESRB then us indie's are in for a hurting. ESRB ratings cost some serious dinero. So what about free games? I bet someone will try to outlaw modding of games. Which would be the same as outlawing using a muffler on your car that was not "original manufacturer" created.
This whole thing is like holding Harley-Davidson responsible for an air brush artist painting a topless female on a bike at Sturgis or for the buyer putting on loud pipes.
#24
However, politicians are pushing legislation that could make you held criminally liable for selling a game with "mature" content to a minor - and without an ESRB rating, that leaves you VERY vulnerable. You could end up spending hundreds of thousands a year just keeping yourself out of jail.
05/12/2006 (12:35 pm)
As of right now, ESRB rating is enforced *by the seller*. So if you want your game sold by Wal*Mart or GameStop, you need an ESRB rating. If you sell it on portals or by yourself, no problem.However, politicians are pushing legislation that could make you held criminally liable for selling a game with "mature" content to a minor - and without an ESRB rating, that leaves you VERY vulnerable. You could end up spending hundreds of thousands a year just keeping yourself out of jail.
#25
I still think it's a "slippery slope" that is being created if this legisation passes. Hopefully this bill will die once again, but I know it came close to passing last time.
05/12/2006 (3:47 pm)
I remember looking over the proposed legislation, sometime back. I can't remember if it mandated an "ESRB rating" or just an "rating", or if it was just "implied". I'm not sure if a self-rated system like TIGRS would suffice. If the legislation requires a "third-party rating system" (not necessarily ESRB), couldn't an indie rating system be created that was made up of a number of indie companies, thus bypassing ESRB's exorbitant fees?I still think it's a "slippery slope" that is being created if this legisation passes. Hopefully this bill will die once again, but I know it came close to passing last time.
#26
05/12/2006 (3:57 pm)
Hell, why only enforce ESRB? I know, Lets enforce David and Margaret's Five-Star movie rating system too. Whatever David and Margaret rate a film deems it suitability to exist. Less than 2 stars = pulled out of cinemas immediatly, 3-4 stars = shown in few numbers, 5 = shown in every second cinema.
#27
Heh, I prefer the saying: Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
05/13/2006 (7:14 am)
@Anthony F:Heh, I prefer the saying: Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
#28
05/14/2006 (6:15 pm)
It's not all hopeless. As gamers grow older and the prudes of the previous generation die out, video games will no longer be the culture's scapegoat. Same deal happened with TV and movies. 
#29
05/14/2006 (6:29 pm)
Hahaha @ Jack Thompson what a nutcase.
#30
Mincetro Deadalus Slayer, despite having such a sick sense of humor as to have "Slayer" in his name, is very right when he said that "butts and breasts make Jesus cry" i'm glad to find someone who has some sense.
05/22/2006 (9:22 pm)
I am NOT a nutcase. The things you people make will result in the destruction of our soceity and all the morals that civilized humans once held dear.Mincetro Deadalus Slayer, despite having such a sick sense of humor as to have "Slayer" in his name, is very right when he said that "butts and breasts make Jesus cry" i'm glad to find someone who has some sense.
#31
05/22/2006 (9:26 pm)
Lol, i'm sorry, i couldn't resist making an account called Jack Thompson....but come on, he's far from having a fair, well informed opinion.... and it's just TOO easy to make fun of him ;-p
#32
I love the email addy you gave him - "jackthompson@assholes.net".
05/23/2006 (1:00 am)
Lol @Anguel - that was a good prankI love the email addy you gave him - "jackthompson@assholes.net".
#33
05/23/2006 (9:39 am)
Anquel - too funny. It's not him I'm worried about. It's the Hillary's in Congress that worry me.
#34
ANYWAYS.... Jack Thompson has lost a lot of credibility due ot his stupidity. But Hilary Clinton IS threatening, since she's pretty credible.... if misguided. Interesting how americans nowadays are much more willing to be pushed around and all, i haven't heard of any significant protest to restrictive laws.... many other mediums would have ALL participants in their industry screaming at the 'old prudes' in Washington. Then again, the country in general has been pretty timid.... what with all the disputes over the illegal immigrants down here, and it was THEY who were protesting....come ON, no one who's FOR deporting them all and enforcing the laws in place has done anything NEARLY as rash as what all those mexicans did.... and many of those present admitted to being illegal immigrants.
Sad how people who technically have none of the rights american citizens have, have demonstrated JUST how to use those rights....if this happened in the 70s we'd have guys trippin' on ACID all over the streets singing harshly out of tune for the mexicans to go bak home or whatever......i should probly save this for a political forum or sumthing, forget i commented on that..... oh, and lastly i don't have anything against mexicans, i have several mexican freinds so don't even TRY to start with me.
05/23/2006 (5:55 pm)
Yeah....i would have waited till someone responded to post that it was a joke but i didn't want anyone to freak out.ANYWAYS.... Jack Thompson has lost a lot of credibility due ot his stupidity. But Hilary Clinton IS threatening, since she's pretty credible.... if misguided. Interesting how americans nowadays are much more willing to be pushed around and all, i haven't heard of any significant protest to restrictive laws.... many other mediums would have ALL participants in their industry screaming at the 'old prudes' in Washington. Then again, the country in general has been pretty timid.... what with all the disputes over the illegal immigrants down here, and it was THEY who were protesting....come ON, no one who's FOR deporting them all and enforcing the laws in place has done anything NEARLY as rash as what all those mexicans did.... and many of those present admitted to being illegal immigrants.
Sad how people who technically have none of the rights american citizens have, have demonstrated JUST how to use those rights....if this happened in the 70s we'd have guys trippin' on ACID all over the streets singing harshly out of tune for the mexicans to go bak home or whatever......i should probly save this for a political forum or sumthing, forget i commented on that..... oh, and lastly i don't have anything against mexicans, i have several mexican freinds so don't even TRY to start with me.
#35
Its primitive, heardheaded, idiotic and its contents could make game developers "Violent" and "Psychopathic" after reading things that insults our intelligence.....
Just a few suggestions:
- wake up (21th century?)
- open up your mind (its not all black or white in this world you know?)
- inform yourself before you make assumptions and attack a world wide industry by saying that they making "killer games" and that by cause.
- stop living in your "own world", its the world of everyone on earth not only yours.
- give constructive critisism (if you should be able to...) and make suggestions instead of giving plain threats or saying that game developers are actually a "threat".
- take care of the REAL Problems of this world and your lands instead of looking for possibilities to profilize yourself to those you can influence with your statements.
- many other things I would like to write but have no more time to do so (I'm at work)....
05/24/2006 (4:10 am)
I think that this Profile needs to be changed or removed from this site: http://www.garagegames.com/my/home/view.profile.php?qid=69984Its primitive, heardheaded, idiotic and its contents could make game developers "Violent" and "Psychopathic" after reading things that insults our intelligence.....
Just a few suggestions:
- wake up (21th century?)
- open up your mind (its not all black or white in this world you know?)
- inform yourself before you make assumptions and attack a world wide industry by saying that they making "killer games" and that by cause.
- stop living in your "own world", its the world of everyone on earth not only yours.
- give constructive critisism (if you should be able to...) and make suggestions instead of giving plain threats or saying that game developers are actually a "threat".
- take care of the REAL Problems of this world and your lands instead of looking for possibilities to profilize yourself to those you can influence with your statements.
- many other things I would like to write but have no more time to do so (I'm at work)....
#37
I actually also kinda wanted to say something akin to what i'd expect from some of the very one-sided oponents of video games. Many say things that are very ridiculous and are bound to stir up a lot of negative emotions. I think part of it is that it helps THEM when they can antagonize all of their oponents into allowing themselves to be categorized together in saying "video games don't influence anyone in any way" which is of course a ridiculous and childish opinion, though most games don't take on a serious tone and shouldn't be considered a threat, it doesn't mean that you can't have a very strong message that's very well represented and reenforced by the game. It's ridiculous to say a comic book like Superman will influence people into using brutal force to solve their problems, but there are more serious stories that COULD influence people.... i just think that the current views are a bit too one-sided and all the proposed "solutions" will just cause MORE problems. In reality, if the current laws are enforced, i don't think anyone should be able to bitch about kids' access to content, you can never filter everything to the utmost. The recent changes to the 'M' rating are one of those things that i say are "just too much" if the punishments for sale of AO and M games are the same....what the hell is the point of having 2 ratings?? In fact, this is worse....now developers have less midway, if you're going to put blood and get an M, why not put exploding heads, anarcistic messages and sex minigames, the new AO slap ain't any bigger than the M.... if you're going to get the same social look at your game for going partway as ALL the way, WHY NOT GO ALL THE WAY??
If you ask me, there is no black and white. There aren't even shades of gray, it goes along a huge gradient of colors. There is no reason to claim that there are only two sides to every argument.
EDIT: I REALLY gotta learn to keep my posts from becoming essays....
05/24/2006 (4:39 pm)
Chill dude it's a joke, true that it's a stupid joke and very one-sided. But it's still just a joke.I actually also kinda wanted to say something akin to what i'd expect from some of the very one-sided oponents of video games. Many say things that are very ridiculous and are bound to stir up a lot of negative emotions. I think part of it is that it helps THEM when they can antagonize all of their oponents into allowing themselves to be categorized together in saying "video games don't influence anyone in any way" which is of course a ridiculous and childish opinion, though most games don't take on a serious tone and shouldn't be considered a threat, it doesn't mean that you can't have a very strong message that's very well represented and reenforced by the game. It's ridiculous to say a comic book like Superman will influence people into using brutal force to solve their problems, but there are more serious stories that COULD influence people.... i just think that the current views are a bit too one-sided and all the proposed "solutions" will just cause MORE problems. In reality, if the current laws are enforced, i don't think anyone should be able to bitch about kids' access to content, you can never filter everything to the utmost. The recent changes to the 'M' rating are one of those things that i say are "just too much" if the punishments for sale of AO and M games are the same....what the hell is the point of having 2 ratings?? In fact, this is worse....now developers have less midway, if you're going to put blood and get an M, why not put exploding heads, anarcistic messages and sex minigames, the new AO slap ain't any bigger than the M.... if you're going to get the same social look at your game for going partway as ALL the way, WHY NOT GO ALL THE WAY??
If you ask me, there is no black and white. There aren't even shades of gray, it goes along a huge gradient of colors. There is no reason to claim that there are only two sides to every argument.
EDIT: I REALLY gotta learn to keep my posts from becoming essays....
#39
As for shooting from the hip like politicians. It's only going to get worse. Until the old fuddy duddy generation who barely knows how to turn on a computer is no longer in control it will only get worse. Hopefully the damage will be repairable once the techno-savy generation who grew up playing games and who "get it" are in office.
05/25/2006 (1:18 pm)
AS for protesting in the street like illegal immigrants did. Sorry, I can't as I don't have the vacation time and need my high paying job to house and feed my family. My children are counting on me to be able to buy them clothes, food, toilet paper, and maybe a college education.As for shooting from the hip like politicians. It's only going to get worse. Until the old fuddy duddy generation who barely knows how to turn on a computer is no longer in control it will only get worse. Hopefully the damage will be repairable once the techno-savy generation who grew up playing games and who "get it" are in office.
#40
- lack of education of that person
- bad family environment
- psychically "labeled"
- many other influences
Due to their ignorance after one killer stated that he were playing "killer games" and because of them he got influenced only to save his butt, everyone else followed.
As example:
A young man turned amok and run into the school with a gun starting "hurting" people.
After he got caught, he stated that he "learned what he did through first person shooters".
In the court they said of course: "poor boy, bad games....."(to make it short).
What they didn't pointed out of course was:
- no game shows you how to really shoot!
- no game shows you how to really load a weapon or how to really use one (if you find one point me to it please)!
- the guy had learned to shoot from his father and had access to guns through the shooting team he was in (sport) and where he had learned how to shoot.
- the communication and behaviour in his family environment wasn't good.
Long story short, people always try to (unfortunatly) go the easy way and for that they blame mostly the medias (at least in our time) instead of taking a look on the real problems that caused the whole situation.
Oh well..... lets see how this goes from here and lets hope that they will someday put their brains in good use instead of using every posibility to "prove" themselves through things like that.
05/25/2006 (10:59 pm)
Well I apologize for not having noticed immediatly but many similar comments and things happened in Germany where I live the last few years and the politicians always focused on the game developers only to "wash out" the real problems like:- lack of education of that person
- bad family environment
- psychically "labeled"
- many other influences
Due to their ignorance after one killer stated that he were playing "killer games" and because of them he got influenced only to save his butt, everyone else followed.
As example:
A young man turned amok and run into the school with a gun starting "hurting" people.
After he got caught, he stated that he "learned what he did through first person shooters".
In the court they said of course: "poor boy, bad games....."(to make it short).
What they didn't pointed out of course was:
- no game shows you how to really shoot!
- no game shows you how to really load a weapon or how to really use one (if you find one point me to it please)!
- the guy had learned to shoot from his father and had access to guns through the shooting team he was in (sport) and where he had learned how to shoot.
- the communication and behaviour in his family environment wasn't good.
Long story short, people always try to (unfortunatly) go the easy way and for that they blame mostly the medias (at least in our time) instead of taking a look on the real problems that caused the whole situation.
Oh well..... lets see how this goes from here and lets hope that they will someday put their brains in good use instead of using every posibility to "prove" themselves through things like that.
Torque 3D Owner Jay Barnson
I get annoyed at voice-overs and subtitles dropping the "F-Bomb".
I do not like gratuitous sex & violence in my movies or games.
I *WOULD BE* the target audience for these fearmongers. Except I not only know the difference between videogames and reality, I also know the difference between their line of horse crap and reality.
I think our industry really does need better P.R.