Opengl
by Alberto · in General Discussion · 04/30/2006 (9:14 am) · 17 replies
Hello
I know that Torque is based on Opengl
Isn't a drawback?
I am not arguing that Directx is better but , right or wrong, direct x is the standard for game programming
Any compatibility issues with graphic cards ?
I know that Torque is based on Opengl
Isn't a drawback?
I am not arguing that Directx is better but , right or wrong, direct x is the standard for game programming
Any compatibility issues with graphic cards ?
#2
04/30/2006 (6:12 pm)
OpenGL 1.4 / 2.0 is capable of matching or exceeding the quality of any scenes or effects rendered using the equivelant D3D render, except D3D isn't able to function on any operating system other than Windows unless under emulation.
#3
TSE currently doesn't use openGL
from Torque Shader Engine (Indie Game License) Features
04/30/2006 (7:01 pm)
Alberto,TSE currently doesn't use openGL
from Torque Shader Engine (Indie Game License) Features
Quote:
An API independent graphics layer currently supporting DirectX 9, but designed with forthcoming OpenGL support in mind.
#4
TGE is based on OpenGL though, but it has a directX wrapper.
05/01/2006 (12:34 pm)
I don't think he's talking about TSE Dan.TGE is based on OpenGL though, but it has a directX wrapper.
#5
I have just one question:
I've written only one directx game.
everything else is OpenGL.
05/01/2006 (12:49 pm)
Mincetro Deadalus Slayer already covered some Very valuable points.I have just one question:
Quote:right or wrong, direct x is the standard for game programmingwho's standard is that?
I've written only one directx game.
everything else is OpenGL.
#6
As aways you are correct. I was just pointing out TSE in case he was thinking of not using Torque because of his feelings that OpenGl might be a drawback.
05/01/2006 (4:52 pm)
Stefan,As aways you are correct. I was just pointing out TSE in case he was thinking of not using Torque because of his feelings that OpenGl might be a drawback.
#7
No thats pretty much patently wrong. Yes DirectX has a HUGE market share because it is the defacto standard for windows, but OpenGL is umm whats the word? Oh yeah open!
DirectX for one thing is not really even a standard, it's an edict handed down by Microsoft, and not really compatible from one version to another, as many DirectX programmers are fond of saying DirectX isn't DirectX compatible!
OpenGL is an actual honest to God standard and is used in alot more than just games.
For a heads up of a very, very tiny fraction of whats out there click here
OpenGL can do basically anything DirectX can do and it can do it on any platform where you can get a renderer to support it. Windows, Mac, Linux, you name it and those are desktop OS's. About the only console I can think of that runs DirectX and I can't be 100% sure on that would be the Xbox and Xbox360 (although I wouldn't be surprised to find out there is some OpenGL thrown in for good measure ;)
05/01/2006 (5:59 pm)
Quote:ROFLMAO Thats got to be the funniest thing I have heard all day!
I am not arguing that Directx is better but , right or wrong, direct x is the standard for game programming
No thats pretty much patently wrong. Yes DirectX has a HUGE market share because it is the defacto standard for windows, but OpenGL is umm whats the word? Oh yeah open!
DirectX for one thing is not really even a standard, it's an edict handed down by Microsoft, and not really compatible from one version to another, as many DirectX programmers are fond of saying DirectX isn't DirectX compatible!
OpenGL is an actual honest to God standard and is used in alot more than just games.
For a heads up of a very, very tiny fraction of whats out there click here
OpenGL can do basically anything DirectX can do and it can do it on any platform where you can get a renderer to support it. Windows, Mac, Linux, you name it and those are desktop OS's. About the only console I can think of that runs DirectX and I can't be 100% sure on that would be the Xbox and Xbox360 (although I wouldn't be surprised to find out there is some OpenGL thrown in for good measure ;)
#8
"Are their any drawbacks"
and
"Any compatibility issues with graphic cards ?"
From my experience TGE which doesn't use shaders can run on pretty much any 3D card with updated drivers. From the spec pages it states for windows:
As a result I don't see any drawbacks to using TGE with openGL and you have the big plus of also getting it to work on the Mac and Linux.
At the end of the day you have to ask what tools can you use to get the game done that you want to make? What markets do you want your game to sell in?
05/01/2006 (7:22 pm)
Seems everyone (including myself) is avoiding the main questions asked which were:"Are their any drawbacks"
and
"Any compatibility issues with graphic cards ?"
From my experience TGE which doesn't use shaders can run on pretty much any 3D card with updated drivers. From the spec pages it states for windows:
Quote:By todays standards that is pretty minimal.
Pentium III 500, 128 MB RAM
OpenGL or DirectX Compatible 3D Graphics Accelerator, DirectX compatible Soundcard
As a result I don't see any drawbacks to using TGE with openGL and you have the big plus of also getting it to work on the Mac and Linux.
At the end of the day you have to ask what tools can you use to get the game done that you want to make? What markets do you want your game to sell in?
#9
but on both old and new computers it has lightning problems and some textures turn grey
do you guys have the same problem ?
05/03/2006 (8:57 am)
The torque demo can be swithed from opengl to D3Dbut on both old and new computers it has lightning problems and some textures turn grey
do you guys have the same problem ?
#10
Well my intention was to prevent opengl or direct x fanatics from answering
Useless effort, it is evident they dont' even read the post
OpenGL ....is used in alot more than just games.
That's why I said "game programming"
Go through the list of recent games and tell me how many are direct x and how many opengl
I guess 1 to 10
The middle priced graphic cards target the game market , the professional ones is an other matter
Honestly I would be concerned, even for the future about an opengl game engine
(By the way I am an opengl fan , but not fanatic)
Thanks Dan Thiel ( and all the others of course)
It is exactly want I meant
05/05/2006 (11:42 am)
Thats got to be the funniest thing I have heard all day!Well my intention was to prevent opengl or direct x fanatics from answering
Useless effort, it is evident they dont' even read the post
OpenGL ....is used in alot more than just games.
That's why I said "game programming"
Go through the list of recent games and tell me how many are direct x and how many opengl
I guess 1 to 10
The middle priced graphic cards target the game market , the professional ones is an other matter
Honestly I would be concerned, even for the future about an opengl game engine
(By the way I am an opengl fan , but not fanatic)
Thanks Dan Thiel ( and all the others of course)
It is exactly want I meant
#11
Since TSE and TGE scripting is probably very similar, using TGE is preparing developers for using TSE later on once TSE is finished. so using TGE by no means locks you into using openGL only.
05/05/2006 (12:18 pm)
Personally, Ive always considered TGE as a stepping stone to TSE. Not only is TSE based on direct x but it's got material shaders, limitless terrain, and you can write your own custom shader routines. From TSE, if your game is good enough, it can get on XBOX 360. I dont think you could say that about any other indie development platform.Since TSE and TGE scripting is probably very similar, using TGE is preparing developers for using TSE later on once TSE is finished. so using TGE by no means locks you into using openGL only.
#12
by using questions such as these:
Isn't a drawback?
...
Any compatibility issues with graphic cards ?
...
I mean cmon' get serious here.
this is definately a request for opinion
reflecting on your question formatting and the guts of your post.
the two questions asked are so vague there is No correct answer..
period.
the Correct question is this:
howcome all the popular game companies only write directx games?
I would think that answer would be obvious.
this is not related to hardware.
the one question
isnt it a drawback?
well .. if you are dealing with a microsoft publisher.
then Yes OpenGL will probably be a drawback.
as the publisher will want your game in directx
so they can still hold microsoft as an allie.
this is a microsoft question.
how come microsoft and friends dont like my open source stuff?
:)
dont get all mad.. this is my opinion which you seem to be soliciting again.
05/05/2006 (12:20 pm)
Quote:Well my intention was to prevent opengl or direct x fanatics from answering
Useless effort, it is evident they dont' even read the post
by using questions such as these:
Isn't a drawback?
...
Any compatibility issues with graphic cards ?
...
I mean cmon' get serious here.
this is definately a request for opinion
reflecting on your question formatting and the guts of your post.
the two questions asked are so vague there is No correct answer..
period.
the Correct question is this:
howcome all the popular game companies only write directx games?
I would think that answer would be obvious.
this is not related to hardware.
the one question
isnt it a drawback?
well .. if you are dealing with a microsoft publisher.
then Yes OpenGL will probably be a drawback.
as the publisher will want your game in directx
so they can still hold microsoft as an allie.
this is a microsoft question.
how come microsoft and friends dont like my open source stuff?
:)
dont get all mad.. this is my opinion which you seem to be soliciting again.
#13
I would not be so sure
As far as I know the hardware design gets along with the API design
A graphic card can be optimized for Direct x but not for opengl
05/05/2006 (12:32 pm)
This is not related to hardware.I would not be so sure
As far as I know the hardware design gets along with the API design
A graphic card can be optimized for Direct x but not for opengl
#14
I dont get this I guess.
what do you mean?
nvidia for example, you state do not modify thier hardware to suite an OpenGL design?
DirectX is Based on OpenGL since the beginning.
90% of the wiz bang features show up in OpenGL first, then in the next dx version show up.
seriously tho, i'm sure your research would prove the case of most developers choosing directx is related to the publisher, which in turn is related alot of the time to the marketing.
which happens in this day and age to have alot to do with microsoft.(windows)
it really comes down to how you want to market your product.
indeed in a microsoft world OpenGL is getting left by the wayside due to peer pressure.
so if you present only a OpenGL rendering system, you could put yourself up against a wall dealing with those people.
I for one am glad that the market I am working in, is moving away from microsoft and its products.
05/05/2006 (12:47 pm)
Quote:A graphic card can be optimized for Direct x but not for opengl
I dont get this I guess.
what do you mean?
nvidia for example, you state do not modify thier hardware to suite an OpenGL design?
DirectX is Based on OpenGL since the beginning.
90% of the wiz bang features show up in OpenGL first, then in the next dx version show up.
seriously tho, i'm sure your research would prove the case of most developers choosing directx is related to the publisher, which in turn is related alot of the time to the marketing.
which happens in this day and age to have alot to do with microsoft.(windows)
it really comes down to how you want to market your product.
indeed in a microsoft world OpenGL is getting left by the wayside due to peer pressure.
so if you present only a OpenGL rendering system, you could put yourself up against a wall dealing with those people.
I for one am glad that the market I am working in, is moving away from microsoft and its products.
#15
I mean that hardware engineers and API engineers must work side by side to get the best performances
In other words, I mean that the design of the hardware is heavly affected by the API .
I dont mean of course that Nvdia or ATI will not support opengl also in the future
I mean that the graphic card manufacturers will give priority to the market leader
The market leader in the window game programming , you can like it or not (I dont') , is Direct x
05/05/2006 (1:32 pm)
Nvidia for example, you state do not modify thier hardware to suite an OpenGL design?I mean that hardware engineers and API engineers must work side by side to get the best performances
In other words, I mean that the design of the hardware is heavly affected by the API .
I dont mean of course that Nvdia or ATI will not support opengl also in the future
I mean that the graphic card manufacturers will give priority to the market leader
The market leader in the window game programming , you can like it or not (I dont') , is Direct x
#16
I think we have already covered the fact we agree..
microsoft has a strangle hold on the developers via the publishers.
therefore all the "big" game house's use pretty much solely directx.
this is not hardware related.
the hardware from nvidia (for example) has alot of opengl specific features still.
things not supported by directx.
in a nutshell, IMHO this is not a hardware question.
of the big card companies (ati, nvidia, ...) the hardware supports the features provided at the software level.
doesnt matter if we are talking OpenGL or dx.
with of course the exception of the latest and greatest stuff found only on the high end cards / newest versions of software
05/05/2006 (1:45 pm)
Well.I think we have already covered the fact we agree..
microsoft has a strangle hold on the developers via the publishers.
therefore all the "big" game house's use pretty much solely directx.
this is not hardware related.
the hardware from nvidia (for example) has alot of opengl specific features still.
things not supported by directx.
in a nutshell, IMHO this is not a hardware question.
of the big card companies (ati, nvidia, ...) the hardware supports the features provided at the software level.
doesnt matter if we are talking OpenGL or dx.
with of course the exception of the latest and greatest stuff found only on the high end cards / newest versions of software
#17
I just wanted to correct this statement: TSE is based on our GFX layer, which currently happens to only have DirectX and XBox360 API layers written. Subtle difference, but TSE hasn't been "based on direct x" for quite a while--all graphics functions are abstracted to the GFX layer, which is what you use to write your rendering.
05/05/2006 (1:50 pm)
Quote:
Not only is TSE based on direct x but it's got material shaders, limitless terrain, and you can write your own custom shader routines
I just wanted to correct this statement: TSE is based on our GFX layer, which currently happens to only have DirectX and XBox360 API layers written. Subtle difference, but TSE hasn't been "based on direct x" for quite a while--all graphics functions are abstracted to the GFX layer, which is what you use to write your rendering.
Torque Owner Stefan Lundmark
You're missing one thing your post, and that's cross-platform compitability.