Another type of challenge.

#1 hmmm...I can't say that a game has ever truly made me care about it. The closest I've ever experienced is when they took my dragon away in Drakan (I can't even remember his name) or my creature away in B&W (I am still working to get him back). But that was mostly annoyance for taking away a valuable tool and not someone/thing I cared about.

The only time I have cared about losing a main character is when it causes me to lose weapons, experience, or skills but honestly if they were to totally change the character midway through the game and they didn't penalize me in any way, I could care less in all of the games I've ever played.

And as far as having someone close to the main character die- I have never played a game where an NPC was important enough to care other than how was going to advance the story of the game. It usually comes down to not knowing enough about the NPC. They are just a model, a little bit of script, and some weak ai occasionally.

I think an inherent problem is communicating with the NPC characters. A text-based, choose your response system automatically adds a layer of abstraction and distance between you and them. And scripted sequences are rarely long enough (you don't want to keep control away form the player for too long, right?) to convey any substantial information.

I have heard that BG2 worked pretty hard to make you care about the characters. Can anyone offer any insight about it?

As to why games don't elicit emaotions like books and movies? I don't know? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that games typically go something like "story...play...story...play...story" with clear distinctions between the gameplay and the story whereas books and movies never stop with the story.

#2 Well I felt sadness, loss and surprise when Aeris was killed in FFVII.

I also feel anger when I get lag fragged playing QIII, and sympathy when I do it to other people (yeah right:)

#3 I think that FF7 was probably the best game for the challenge you speak of. But you are extremely correct. The graphics wouldnt have to be Tribes 2 or Giants quality, but they would have to be ok. FF7 had good graphics, but i began to look past them, I got totally engrossed in the story. I felt connected to the game, as I did in Starsiege. I wanted to keep playing, to save cloud - or to save Mars from Earth. It was a struggle that made me feel like I was part of it, and that I could do something about it. They werent just another boring time, trying to get to the end. With FF7 and SS, I wanted to keep going, even after the game. I absolutely love these two games, and I would rather have them on my PC, rather than the best looking, technical FPS or other game.

#4 HEHE, I just had to chuckle when I read that someone listed FF7 in this thread. I feel the same way about that game. Hell, I think i even shed a tear when that certain person, well, you know what I mean(don't wanna ruin it for those who have not played it) I lost my girlfriend over that game, and locked myself inside til' it was finished. I don't believe any game has even come close to making me feel the way FF7 did. I played through the import twice(with some "learning japanese" books by my side, and actually learnded some katakana and hiragana while playing.) and played the US version 3 times.I played so much I know which part of the game each song on the soundtrack corresponds to. If you guys have not played this title and are looking for something that will draw you in emotionally, I suggest you go buy it now.

EDIT: nevermind Louis already gave it away. LOL

#5 I found the Starcraft (and Broodwar) campaigns quite engrossing. Although I do feel that you have to play all the missions back-to-back to get the right feel for it.

I have to jump on the FF7 bandwagon and say that it is the best I've seen at getting you interested in the characters. Unfortunately my favourite sequences are too far into the game to mention. Suffice to say that when Aeris was killed, I felt shocked. (Having to change CD there did not help the mood though).

I also think the music for FF7 helped with the mood, I actually went out and bought the soundtrack (Love "Those Chosen by the Planet" - The tune that plays when Sephiroth turns up)

Most other games do not reach this level, or as with Outpost 2 require a large amount of reading to follow it.

#6 FFVII was "okay" but the "suicide" attempt in the SNES version of FFIII was what really got me...Altho FFVII had the "better" graphics; none of the charactors felt as real as those in FFIII

#7 Xenogears was really good too (the first half was brilliant!) as far as invoking emotional responses. It is the first time I have ever felt sorrow while playing a game. The main character didn't know (and neither did anyone else in the game, however the player could figure it out through the dropping of subtle hints here and there) he had a "split" personality and ends up (he thinks anyway, and you do too) killing his friend. Very dramatic without being overt about it. It is a Playstation game - get it if you can.

#8 Isn't it a little weird how Squaresoft is one of the few companies that can invoke emotions though their games? Think back and you can see the mentioned games Xenogears, FF7, FF6 (JP-3US), FF5 (JP), and Crono Trigger, Have great stories and can draw you into their world. What is so great about these games it's not the graphics that make you believe, it's the characters. Most of them have personalities, unlike most games where you just have stereotyped action heroes. I applaud them for that and I wished I knew more games that have a draw to the story, the way that they do. Games sometimes need to invoke emotions in such ways that you are sad to see one go, happy to see one secede, or appalled when one dies.

#9 Infocom's old Planetfall text adventure is, AFAIK, the first computer game to evoke strong emotion. If you've played it, you know the sad bit.

#10 I agree this should be a MAJOR aspect of games.

A song here, lighting changes at the right moment, a specific environmental sound there, ect.

If done right it can provoke great emotion but while most people can recognize this happening in a game and feel the intended emotion not everyone, dare I say very few, can create this for their own games.

This is, in my opinion, the most important aspect of any game and is largely ignored. Ignored because I believe people simply do not know how to express emotion. Maybe that sounds flowery. I don't care.

I think it comes from programmers who design and build these games being left brain people (more prone to computations, mathematics, logic and evaluation) as opposed to people who favor the right brain (personality, emotion, color, imagery, creativity)
For the most part. Not all programmers.

Character development is another aspect of this I believe. This too is so very important and is often left to the wayside. Again it comes down to writing emotion. To expressing it in an unnatural way i.e. words and actions.
It would be hard for someone to write for someone else something we would not normally do.

And finally it has to do, and im sure of this, most people in the game industry are men.
We, as men, have a hard time showing emotion or expressing it save for that one very important way.
It's a fact that on the whole we are not good at it.

But anyway, I think Phantasy Star IV (or III?) had the most emotional scene when that cute little long eared chick died.
They covered the mortal wound, the death in the bed surrounded by her friends, and her friends coming to grips with it after her death.
Very profound. Very thorough.

Cheers
Charles

#11 My 14 year old son, Jonathan, bought Seaman for the Dreamcast. He worked diligently to raise his creature. One day he came into my office with tears in his eyes and said "my Seaman died". I really felt sorry for him.

He is around games of every type and is a hard core gamer. He eventually grew the Seaman to completion and saw through the game, but that first emotion was powerful.

Jeff Tunnell GG

#12 Thats so cool Jeff. It really really is. Thats what phil is talking about. Thats what its all about.

#13 But do the emotions evoked always have to be so depressing? I can't think of how else it would work just at the moment, but surely someone is more creative than me...

I am getting a little sick of feeling sad for a good hour or so while the game builds back up to the ending. Sure the ending is cool, it solves everything and makes you feel happy, and without the sad bit it just wouldn't seem as good... but...

Darn it, I just keep arguing against myself here. I'm gonna quit now and just leave you with "Why sadness?"

#14 A lot of adventure games were funny. Especially the first Leisure Suit Larry and Day of the Tentacle. "Worms" was funny as well. Conkers Bad Fur Day has some parts that will make you chuckle.

Humor is one thing computer games can do well. Developers don't choose to use it often, which is the point Phil is trying to make.

Jeff Tunnell GG

#15 MDK2 is one of my favorite games b/c of its humor. My own project, Zoinks!, is built around being humorous. A lot of the older (2D) games you play were quite funny but it seems like most modern games have lost their whimsy and humor. Games don't always have to be serious. I think we could reach much wider audiences with more humor.

#16 I'll use this as case in point - Too many of todays games use sad emotions, and I just plain forgot about the older, funnier ones.

I haven't played any recent ones (Zork, Grand Inquisitor excluded) that were really funny, and found it a great let down that Zork Nemesis was serious (Zork games are supposed to be funny!)

Do any games use emotions other than fear, sadness and humour in them? (I ask this cause I seem to be really bad at thinking of emotions till they're rubbed in my face) :)

#17 The project my team is currently working on (Amethyst) will focus on many different emotions.

Sadness and Loss being the two main focuses of the game, it will also portay anger, loyalty, joy, love and hate.

So far the scripting is coming out great...lets hope it fits into the game well.

The total package is what counts..not just good writing :)

-Robert

#18 Can you say why sadness and loss are the main focuses without giving away anything of the game? (ie - why pick a game that focuses on those?)

Can anyone think of a way to get an uplifting main game that still gives the ending the same impact as (Sorry for bringing it up _again_) FFVII did?

#19 Basically the story is about someone who loses the sone she loves but is in a constant realization that she could never really have him anyway.

Its going to be a side scroll with a dark theme to it.

-Robert

#20 Don't suppose you've got a breakdown of roughly what percentage of the game is spent with the player feeling each emotion do you? Or does that rely too much on individual player perceptions?