Is GG caring anything about the TGE source?
by Kai Ludwig · in Torque Game Engine · 03/21/2006 (9:23 am) · 19 replies
The TGE sourcecode seems to be maintained only by the community. Lots of bugfixes with bugfixes on themselves and no official integration in the HEAD and no stable versions. I wonder if two TGE-users have an identical TGE-source to work on.
Many people in the community seem to do much try and error to get things working. The results get lost in threads with 50 follow-ups and one can hardly read the last version from that.
I wan't GG to integrate at least the bugfixes into CVS an announce stable versions to the community. This would give everybody something to rely on and one could produce patches for additional features more easily.
So folks of GG: Get it right now !!!
Many people in the community seem to do much try and error to get things working. The results get lost in threads with 50 follow-ups and one can hardly read the last version from that.
I wan't GG to integrate at least the bugfixes into CVS an announce stable versions to the community. This would give everybody something to rely on and one could produce patches for additional features more easily.
So folks of GG: Get it right now !!!
#2
03/21/2006 (9:43 am)
I assure you Torque is constantly being improved, not just 'fixed'. The current stable code base is 1.4. Remember it is a base, a stable one at that. How you modify the code is up to you. If you have submitted fixed to their development team, they will evaluate such changes before adding it. I would be cautious with your brazen attacks toward the developers. 
#3
03/21/2006 (9:53 am)
I'm not sure exactly what you are complaining about. They are preparing the 1.4.2 release, which incorporates a number of bug fixes. There will always be a QA gap. Any team that makes source modifications will have a different team codebase, but right now a number of us are working from 1.4. It's a great base.
#5
So, in short yes GG is giving TGE all the TLC it needs and deserves. Yah, I am only a community member; but one who is in charge of TGE-L.
-Ron
03/21/2006 (10:14 am)
I can assure you that TGE is receiving tons of TLC, over the past several months I have been grinding away on getting TGE-L to a stable version of 1.4 (which is in CVS HEAD as I write this). I have also rceived word that TGE-L will be the first 1.4.2 stable version to be released, that is TGE-L will be released before windows and mac 1.4.2. I am also pushing hard to get TSTPro released with TGE-L 1.4.2So, in short yes GG is giving TGE all the TLC it needs and deserves. Yah, I am only a community member; but one who is in charge of TGE-L.
-Ron
#6
If one ask some technical questions, there is silence.
If one complains about torque there is an immediate answer. And nice flames too ...
But now for real. I complain about bugfixes not integrated in the code like e.g.:
1. Canvas setCursorPos() does not work (http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=19875)
2. World editor Axis Gizmo bug fix (http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=24825)
3. guiTextEditCtrl bug&fix. (http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=37002)
Those things are serious bugs and if GG would care about their TGE scource, they would maintain a set of professional QA'd patches. As a user of TGE I want a most up-to-date and bugfixed version at all times.
And it could be easily done on base of TGE 1.4 with some offcial patch files, until the next official release comes out. So nobody would have to spend hours to search the forums for bugfixes and then hack everything into his source hoping he got the 10 most important bugfixes.
BTW: There are no TAGs younger than TGE 1.3 in CVS. Looks like they really now what version control is about.
03/21/2006 (10:15 am)
Whoa - the community is alive !!!If one ask some technical questions, there is silence.
If one complains about torque there is an immediate answer. And nice flames too ...
But now for real. I complain about bugfixes not integrated in the code like e.g.:
1. Canvas setCursorPos() does not work (http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=19875)
2. World editor Axis Gizmo bug fix (http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=24825)
3. guiTextEditCtrl bug&fix. (http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=37002)
Those things are serious bugs and if GG would care about their TGE scource, they would maintain a set of professional QA'd patches. As a user of TGE I want a most up-to-date and bugfixed version at all times.
And it could be easily done on base of TGE 1.4 with some offcial patch files, until the next official release comes out. So nobody would have to spend hours to search the forums for bugfixes and then hack everything into his source hoping he got the 10 most important bugfixes.
BTW: There are no TAGs younger than TGE 1.3 in CVS. Looks like they really now what version control is about.
#7
03/21/2006 (10:44 am)
You know Kai, attacking the community like that won't get your questions answered any faster. You've asked two questions in as many days, one of which you answered yourself. You have to have a little patience for questions that may not exactly be common knowledge. Not everyone is on here 24/7, and sometimes posts slip through the cracks when people are catching up on the forums. That's why we have the unanswered posts link now, which is where I found your questions.
#8
I see "flamebait", which is the category your original and follow up posts fall under.
03/21/2006 (10:45 am)
I don't see any responses so far that contain flames. I see "flamebait", which is the category your original and follow up posts fall under.
#9
03/21/2006 (11:14 am)
<----> 
#10
Kai
It is perfectly reasonable that people are responding to your post in this manner. Many of us consider the GarageGames' forums to be a second home. If I were to go to your house, pound on the door and start making demands, I'd expect you to react anywhere from confused to angered. That's what is happening here.
I sense that you feel you're entitled to something. This seems as good a time as any to bring up a segment of section 6 of the EULA (and I'm assuming you to be an Indie licensee here):
GarageGames is not required to make any updates to the TGE. They're also not required to provide these forums. They do so because they want to.
If you wish to get the most out of the privilege of using these forums, I'd recommend that you take a deep breath and relax. Try to think of meaningful ways in which you can get your point across without providing a perception of an attack. If you feel something is lacking, it is usually best to try and find ways to help make it better.
Welcome to the community!
- LightWave Dave
03/21/2006 (11:17 am)
Greetings!Kai
It is perfectly reasonable that people are responding to your post in this manner. Many of us consider the GarageGames' forums to be a second home. If I were to go to your house, pound on the door and start making demands, I'd expect you to react anywhere from confused to angered. That's what is happening here.
I sense that you feel you're entitled to something. This seems as good a time as any to bring up a segment of section 6 of the EULA (and I'm assuming you to be an Indie licensee here):
Quote:THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OR GUARANTEED UPDATES OF ANY KIND, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR NON-INFRINGEMENT.
GarageGames is not required to make any updates to the TGE. They're also not required to provide these forums. They do so because they want to.
If you wish to get the most out of the privilege of using these forums, I'd recommend that you take a deep breath and relax. Try to think of meaningful ways in which you can get your point across without providing a perception of an attack. If you feel something is lacking, it is usually best to try and find ways to help make it better.
Welcome to the community!
- LightWave Dave
#11
Have you ever browsed the forums ?
And in that case which forums are you comparing them with ?
Most of the problems I'm facing right now I find that someone else already encountered (and found a solution to) before, I haven't had the need to start a new thread in years due to this.
And since the site-makeover, the search-function has been greatly improved. Use it why don't ya :)
And here I was thinking that was the beauty of TGE.
03/21/2006 (11:24 am)
I for one think that next to the forums of Gentoo linux these are the most vibrant I've ever came across.Have you ever browsed the forums ?
And in that case which forums are you comparing them with ?
Most of the problems I'm facing right now I find that someone else already encountered (and found a solution to) before, I haven't had the need to start a new thread in years due to this.
And since the site-makeover, the search-function has been greatly improved. Use it why don't ya :)
Quote:I wonder if two TGE-users have an identical TGE-source to work on.
And here I was thinking that was the beauty of TGE.
#12
it had to be done.
03/21/2006 (11:34 am)
Quote:I don't see any responses so far that contain flames.
it had to be done.
#13
Excuse:
Sorry for beeing too harsh, I just had too high expectations concerning GG and the product lifecycle
organisation of TGE. I now understand that it is "AS IS" and community-developed and won't
expect prepacked "out-of-the-box" solutions anymore.
Since I saw that there is a community with strong bindings to TGE I now believe more in the possibility of getting help when stuck.
Everybody now have a happy coding day. I will go on digging through TGE ...
03/21/2006 (12:05 pm)
LOL !!! That really hit it.Excuse:
Sorry for beeing too harsh, I just had too high expectations concerning GG and the product lifecycle
organisation of TGE. I now understand that it is "AS IS" and community-developed and won't
expect prepacked "out-of-the-box" solutions anymore.
Since I saw that there is a community with strong bindings to TGE I now believe more in the possibility of getting help when stuck.
Everybody now have a happy coding day. I will go on digging through TGE ...
#14
This community far surpasses any other I've EVER seen for a product, and there are some really brilliant people here who help others when there is no concrete benefit for doing so. I visualize a sunny street lined with trees and houses with garages. In each of those garages is one or two developers trying to follow their dreams. People walk back and forth through the open doors of the garages and help other people or just say hi. That's what things are like around these parts.
03/22/2006 (5:46 am)
For me, looking for, finding, and integrating various resources which address real problems or desired variations to the code has been a TREMENDOUS learning experience. Though I've been coding for about 25 years, I had stayed away from C++ entirely. Now I am gaining in confidence and ability quicker than I thougt possible. This community far surpasses any other I've EVER seen for a product, and there are some really brilliant people here who help others when there is no concrete benefit for doing so. I visualize a sunny street lined with trees and houses with garages. In each of those garages is one or two developers trying to follow their dreams. People walk back and forth through the open doors of the garages and help other people or just say hi. That's what things are like around these parts.
#15
Seriously now, stop complaining and start making a game.
03/22/2006 (6:28 am)
If you've seen the updates, bugfixes and extra stuff from 1.3 to 1.4, you would complain...Seriously now, stop complaining and start making a game.
#16
1. Fixed in 1.4.2
2. Fixed in 1.4.2
3. Fixed in 1.4.2 (was created by 1.4.0 so I think you can cut me a bit of slack on this one =P)
03/31/2006 (6:31 am)
Quote:
1. Canvas setCursorPos() does not work (http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=19875)
2. World editor Axis Gizmo bug fix (http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=24825)
3. guiTextEditCtrl bug&fix. (http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=37002)
1. Fixed in 1.4.2
2. Fixed in 1.4.2
3. Fixed in 1.4.2 (was created by 1.4.0 so I think you can cut me a bit of slack on this one =P)
#18
No need for slack cutting, some community members have their panties in a bind.....
One should read the forums, and see the numerous threads and blogs regarding fixes being made by employees and community members. GG has a vibrant community, constatly pushing TGE to its limits, adding features and fixing bugs. Many of those community members send patches or post fixes that GG employees acknowledge and get into SVN in preperation for the next release. If the fix is deamed CVS worthy, then it is synced from SVN to CVS.
-Ron
Go ahead and flame all you want, some times the truth is a bitter pill to swallow....
03/31/2006 (6:53 am)
Matt,No need for slack cutting, some community members have their panties in a bind.....
One should read the forums, and see the numerous threads and blogs regarding fixes being made by employees and community members. GG has a vibrant community, constatly pushing TGE to its limits, adding features and fixing bugs. Many of those community members send patches or post fixes that GG employees acknowledge and get into SVN in preperation for the next release. If the fix is deamed CVS worthy, then it is synced from SVN to CVS.
-Ron
Go ahead and flame all you want, some times the truth is a bitter pill to swallow....
#19
I may be wholly incorrect, but I believe that all 1.4.x releases will be available to the owners of 1.4 without an extra fee. When 1.5 is released, the upgrade fee will incur. At least that is what I've gleaned.
03/31/2006 (7:16 am)
@BenI may be wholly incorrect, but I believe that all 1.4.x releases will be available to the owners of 1.4 without an extra fee. When 1.5 is released, the upgrade fee will incur. At least that is what I've gleaned.
Torque Owner Jake Massie