TGE/TSE vs modding another engine?
by Michael Spencer · in Torque Game Engine · 03/19/2006 (9:48 am) · 4 replies
I've seen other threads on this subject, but they've all missed an issue I find I need to discuss:
I'm trying to work on a small project (Produce-Panic-sized, free download) and get interest from an existing community. I briefly described TGE, and got some responses that have me wondering: what about other game engines? What about modding for Half Life 2 (HL2) instead?
I'm aware of the licensing issues, cost issues, system requirements issues, etc. I don't know enough about HL2 to discuss the rest.
(I also don't want to put this post out in the public area, where it might scare off people who haven't bought TGE yet.)
Speaking in technical terms only, in what you can implement easily here and implement with great difficulty there . . . what can a HL2 modder do that someone can't do with TGE? What can a TGE license holder do easily that you can't do with HL2?
(Previous HL2 mod discussions within that community suggest you're limited to existing game types with different assets, because they're talking about rebadging game types, using CTF and team deathmatch and whatnot but changing the names. TGE lets you build any arbitrary game type you want in TorqueScript, without even getting into what the source code enables you to do.)
I'm trying to work on a small project (Produce-Panic-sized, free download) and get interest from an existing community. I briefly described TGE, and got some responses that have me wondering: what about other game engines? What about modding for Half Life 2 (HL2) instead?
I'm aware of the licensing issues, cost issues, system requirements issues, etc. I don't know enough about HL2 to discuss the rest.
(I also don't want to put this post out in the public area, where it might scare off people who haven't bought TGE yet.)
Speaking in technical terms only, in what you can implement easily here and implement with great difficulty there . . . what can a HL2 modder do that someone can't do with TGE? What can a TGE license holder do easily that you can't do with HL2?
(Previous HL2 mod discussions within that community suggest you're limited to existing game types with different assets, because they're talking about rebadging game types, using CTF and team deathmatch and whatnot but changing the names. TGE lets you build any arbitrary game type you want in TorqueScript, without even getting into what the source code enables you to do.)
#2
That case study helps quite a bit.
What about NPC's? Are there any artificial limits imposed on NPC behavior in HL2 which aren't present in TGE?
How about random indoor-scene generation? I could imagine a set of "template" hallways, corridors, rooms, etc, positioned deep underground, where I just mix and match portals to get randomly-generated interiors. That seems "difficult but possible" in TGE, but what about HL2? Completely impossible in that engine?
03/19/2006 (11:07 am)
(Just so you know, I'm already convinced. Whatever I do I'll do in TGE, with or without their help. But I don't know an easy way to quantify what I know to someone who has never seen TGE. So I'm here looking for ammunition, not because I need to be convinced myself.)That case study helps quite a bit.
What about NPC's? Are there any artificial limits imposed on NPC behavior in HL2 which aren't present in TGE?
How about random indoor-scene generation? I could imagine a set of "template" hallways, corridors, rooms, etc, positioned deep underground, where I just mix and match portals to get randomly-generated interiors. That seems "difficult but possible" in TGE, but what about HL2? Completely impossible in that engine?
#3
03/19/2006 (12:56 pm)
I'm pretty sure such generated rooms _have_ been done to an extent in TGE by someone using a bunch of preset pieces, though I can't recall who or where... and given HL2's map format, I would think that it would be impossible with that. I was pretty shocked when I found HL2 doesn't even support object scaling o.O'. TGE obviously doesn't have HL2's awesome facial emoting system, and there's no implemented AI to speak of out of the box with it, but no "limits" on coding your own, and there's a fair bit of resources as well as rumblings of an AI code pack coming out. 
Torque 3D Owner Robert Blanchet Jr.
There is currently this HL2 mod in development called Empires. Like most things out there, it is a pretty ambitious attempt at creating an RTS/FPS combo.
Now, nothing against the developers, their game crashes like crazy. It has yet to stay up for the entire length of a single map. The game is very laggy, and the root cause of the problem here are the vehicles which is one of the main elements in this game. Afterall, an RTS has lots of vehicles.
Another problem with the mod is it should really be more of an outdoor-like game, as you can see from this screenshot this is exactly what they are attempting to do. But look at the terrain. Its flat, the textures repeat like crazy, etc. This isn't their fault. HL2 simply wasn't meant for the kinds of outdoor environments a game like this should be destined to be in.
To put it simply. I can say with 100% certainty, given the motivation and talent is there, that all of these problems with Empires would vanish if they were making their game on Torque instead of making a mod of HL2.
Got a crash? No problem, fire up your debug session and fire away!
Laggy vehicle net code? PFFFT, TNL would eat that up and ask for more!
Flat, unconvincing terrain? "Flat what? Huh?"