Let's Take a Chance
by Shayne Guiliano · in General Discussion · 03/19/2002 (2:06 pm) · 6 replies
Hello Everyone,
Shayne here. I have been away for a week or so, but I just got back and read the responses to my post at http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=forums&page=result.thread&qt=4021 . It feels great to see that there are some people out there thinking out of the box.
Because I see a lot of people out there are thinking and I think this should be a place where we can test each others theories, I am going to periodically start threads about things that I have thought about. Please take this as your chance to let your mind go. Don't hold back any ideas or theories... because we only learn from being wrong. Being right only hinders thought. Anyways, I invite everyone to try and add to this idea for a little while because no great question has ever been answered in a day. And if you think it's an idea that's not worth adding to, say so and tell us why. So here we go...
Something that was brought up in the last thread that I want to talk about is color theory. First of all don't let yourself get caught up in the word "Color" in color theory. Color is not something which invokes emotions, or something that is what the sky looks like, etc. For me, understanding color is a lot more interesting that giving it simple definitions.
I am an organic chemist. I studied at Boston College under a great professor, Dr. Amir Hoveyda, where I learned the skills to be able to synthesize any drug or molecule you can think of. But what I really got from this him is a sense that there is a lot more to the understanding of the world than you can read in a book. To begin, maybe you should try to understand yourself and how color affects you.
Color is simply the "interpretation" by our brain of the frequency of a photon that hits our brain. That is a very abstract idea, yet it's the best answer science has come up with. There is nothing inherit in that photon that gives it this color unless our brain interprets it as so. Why is this interesting? Because it is just one little piece of evidence that maybe the world isn't what we think it is. It's all just an "Interpretation". So what's the grand conclusion? In order to affect someone's experience of light, we need to affect the way they "Interpret" the light hitting their eyes, not the light itself. Again, obvious I know, but really powerful if you let it keep going. What tools can we use to change this interpretation? (I think the ones we care about most is the TV, their ears, and that crazy vibrating controller.)
Now, how do we add symbolism so as to get the wanted interpretation to these otherwise arbitrary photons? Understanding this process is the key to being able to use it to your advantage. I will use The Matrix as an example because it's a great movie and I'm sure most of you have seen it if you don't own the DVD. If you have it, watch it again. What is the "Color" of that movie? Do you remember? It's very obvious. I guarantee it affected how you felt about the movie. It's the same color as Kermit. It's everywhere in that movie. Their cloths. The walls. Even their skin color has an olive hue to it. Why? What is the affect it has? How the sound change the color? One effect I see is how it sets up red to be more dramatic than it would have been normally because they are opposites. The significance of the red pill that the "chosen one" must choose. The red blood dripping from their mouth that signals death. Is there another affect that is has on us. Of course.
I think it's a very "cool" color. Maybe even serene. Is that why the robots chose it, to keep the people serene. Maybe. I don't know them all, but I'm gonna keep looking. I think everyone here needs to start studying movies, not because I think video games and movies should be alike, but because movies work with the same senses we do, sight and hearing. We even get to work with touch some times, aka the vibrating controller.(A whole other thread) The most looked over question I always have is how do they use sight and sound together to communicate perfectly? Communication is all there is. In video games, the player gets to communicate back, that's the only difference.
I'm going to cut this off soon because I know it gets tedious, but I'm going to ask some questions that I hope will get you thinking. What is communication? How does being human, being an animal, affect the way we communicate? What do our senses have to do with it? Do we have control over how we interpret all the sensation we get? What kind of color makes the brain happy or less confused? Does perspective and color have a lot in common? Is the brain even capable of understanding itself well enough to be able to communicate perfectly with other brains? I have this little theory that all we have is a brain and our senses and the only thing we can do to change our brain is by changing our senses. This is how I live my life and it has worked so far. I seek out experiences that will open my mind. It doesn't make sense to me that a mind can open itself up because a mind's only function is interpretation. Is any of this even important for making video games? That's the most important question. LOL Sorry if I got a little out there. This is what thinking out of the box means to me. It helps make everything in the box seem a lot more simple...
Shayne here. I have been away for a week or so, but I just got back and read the responses to my post at http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=forums&page=result.thread&qt=4021 . It feels great to see that there are some people out there thinking out of the box.
Because I see a lot of people out there are thinking and I think this should be a place where we can test each others theories, I am going to periodically start threads about things that I have thought about. Please take this as your chance to let your mind go. Don't hold back any ideas or theories... because we only learn from being wrong. Being right only hinders thought. Anyways, I invite everyone to try and add to this idea for a little while because no great question has ever been answered in a day. And if you think it's an idea that's not worth adding to, say so and tell us why. So here we go...
Something that was brought up in the last thread that I want to talk about is color theory. First of all don't let yourself get caught up in the word "Color" in color theory. Color is not something which invokes emotions, or something that is what the sky looks like, etc. For me, understanding color is a lot more interesting that giving it simple definitions.
I am an organic chemist. I studied at Boston College under a great professor, Dr. Amir Hoveyda, where I learned the skills to be able to synthesize any drug or molecule you can think of. But what I really got from this him is a sense that there is a lot more to the understanding of the world than you can read in a book. To begin, maybe you should try to understand yourself and how color affects you.
Color is simply the "interpretation" by our brain of the frequency of a photon that hits our brain. That is a very abstract idea, yet it's the best answer science has come up with. There is nothing inherit in that photon that gives it this color unless our brain interprets it as so. Why is this interesting? Because it is just one little piece of evidence that maybe the world isn't what we think it is. It's all just an "Interpretation". So what's the grand conclusion? In order to affect someone's experience of light, we need to affect the way they "Interpret" the light hitting their eyes, not the light itself. Again, obvious I know, but really powerful if you let it keep going. What tools can we use to change this interpretation? (I think the ones we care about most is the TV, their ears, and that crazy vibrating controller.)
Now, how do we add symbolism so as to get the wanted interpretation to these otherwise arbitrary photons? Understanding this process is the key to being able to use it to your advantage. I will use The Matrix as an example because it's a great movie and I'm sure most of you have seen it if you don't own the DVD. If you have it, watch it again. What is the "Color" of that movie? Do you remember? It's very obvious. I guarantee it affected how you felt about the movie. It's the same color as Kermit. It's everywhere in that movie. Their cloths. The walls. Even their skin color has an olive hue to it. Why? What is the affect it has? How the sound change the color? One effect I see is how it sets up red to be more dramatic than it would have been normally because they are opposites. The significance of the red pill that the "chosen one" must choose. The red blood dripping from their mouth that signals death. Is there another affect that is has on us. Of course.
I think it's a very "cool" color. Maybe even serene. Is that why the robots chose it, to keep the people serene. Maybe. I don't know them all, but I'm gonna keep looking. I think everyone here needs to start studying movies, not because I think video games and movies should be alike, but because movies work with the same senses we do, sight and hearing. We even get to work with touch some times, aka the vibrating controller.(A whole other thread) The most looked over question I always have is how do they use sight and sound together to communicate perfectly? Communication is all there is. In video games, the player gets to communicate back, that's the only difference.
I'm going to cut this off soon because I know it gets tedious, but I'm going to ask some questions that I hope will get you thinking. What is communication? How does being human, being an animal, affect the way we communicate? What do our senses have to do with it? Do we have control over how we interpret all the sensation we get? What kind of color makes the brain happy or less confused? Does perspective and color have a lot in common? Is the brain even capable of understanding itself well enough to be able to communicate perfectly with other brains? I have this little theory that all we have is a brain and our senses and the only thing we can do to change our brain is by changing our senses. This is how I live my life and it has worked so far. I seek out experiences that will open my mind. It doesn't make sense to me that a mind can open itself up because a mind's only function is interpretation. Is any of this even important for making video games? That's the most important question. LOL Sorry if I got a little out there. This is what thinking out of the box means to me. It helps make everything in the box seem a lot more simple...
#2
Something that was brought up in the last thread that I want to talk about is color theory. First of all don't let yourself get caught up in the word "Color" in color theory. Color is not something which invokes emotions, or something that is what the sky looks like, etc. For me, understanding color is a lot more interesting that giving it simple definitions.
------
Although it is great to talk about the symbolism of color, it is not a constant. To understand color theory, you must be able to contextualize the associations of colors to create graphic compositions that communicate your intent.
The study of color theory is nothing more than a toolset for artists. You can try to abstract it, but you might as well start talking about the social/psycological significance of a screwdriver.
There are a few constants in understanding design, and some (like how color affects perspective) and some that are 'theory' that has yet to be proven.
Color does affect emotion, but with the exception of a few very basic constants, cultural influences affect the perception of the individual.
As Matt points out, it is the contextual use of color that makes it useful as a storytelling device.
I understand what you are trying to do, but I think you are missing the mark here. Although we may perceive differently, the relative difference between colors that give context to each are most likley constant from individual to individual. Since the use of color as an artists tools comes from understanding an utilizing the differences in color to affect composition (and therefore communication), the diffence in individual percpetion becomes somewhat negligible as the affect of value differences (value as a component of color) is more important than whether or not we both see the same 'red'.
03/19/2002 (3:09 pm)
Shayne wrote:Something that was brought up in the last thread that I want to talk about is color theory. First of all don't let yourself get caught up in the word "Color" in color theory. Color is not something which invokes emotions, or something that is what the sky looks like, etc. For me, understanding color is a lot more interesting that giving it simple definitions.
------
Although it is great to talk about the symbolism of color, it is not a constant. To understand color theory, you must be able to contextualize the associations of colors to create graphic compositions that communicate your intent.
The study of color theory is nothing more than a toolset for artists. You can try to abstract it, but you might as well start talking about the social/psycological significance of a screwdriver.
There are a few constants in understanding design, and some (like how color affects perspective) and some that are 'theory' that has yet to be proven.
Color does affect emotion, but with the exception of a few very basic constants, cultural influences affect the perception of the individual.
As Matt points out, it is the contextual use of color that makes it useful as a storytelling device.
I understand what you are trying to do, but I think you are missing the mark here. Although we may perceive differently, the relative difference between colors that give context to each are most likley constant from individual to individual. Since the use of color as an artists tools comes from understanding an utilizing the differences in color to affect composition (and therefore communication), the diffence in individual percpetion becomes somewhat negligible as the affect of value differences (value as a component of color) is more important than whether or not we both see the same 'red'.
#3
Obviously you have a very good understanding of color and have thought about it a lot. You say something about Matrix:
"The matrix is a good example of colors used to enhance the emotion of the scene, but many things could be left up for interpretation."
I think you are right and I think it points to the power and complexity of color. Color does not have to be understood in order for it to make sense, it only has to be interpretable. That is the beauty of color and art. You don't have to know what it means, only what it possibly could mean. Life is boring when it's blatant.
I think you also pointed to something that really gets down to the guts of video games and why they are not an artform yet.
"In movies most every thing you see that you actually recognize and look at is meant to occur. That allows for creative use of color, lighting and synbolism. The problem with games is that there is no set camera angle or timeline during the entire experience. Some details that might be seen as important or interesting in a film would be lost because the player was too busy looking around for a switch or zombie."
But that is not the end of it. Why does there have to be a switch or a zombie? Think out of the box. Is it possible to conceive of a video game where everything you actually recognize, or even don't recognize, is there for a reason? It almost seems silly to me that I've never seen a game where I felt that. What you are pointing to is perfect communication, what we all call art.
No set camera angle. Why not? Is it not possible to use dramatic camera angles that do not take away from the game but add to it without cutting off a gamer's communication link? Why does a timeline have to be set in order for there to be meaning? Certainly there is an alternative. If you can think of a rational concept, than it's a rational concept. Matt, please don't misinterpret me. I am not here to say I'm right and your not so please do me the same and just evolve the thought.
03/19/2002 (3:23 pm)
Matt,Obviously you have a very good understanding of color and have thought about it a lot. You say something about Matrix:
"The matrix is a good example of colors used to enhance the emotion of the scene, but many things could be left up for interpretation."
I think you are right and I think it points to the power and complexity of color. Color does not have to be understood in order for it to make sense, it only has to be interpretable. That is the beauty of color and art. You don't have to know what it means, only what it possibly could mean. Life is boring when it's blatant.
I think you also pointed to something that really gets down to the guts of video games and why they are not an artform yet.
"In movies most every thing you see that you actually recognize and look at is meant to occur. That allows for creative use of color, lighting and synbolism. The problem with games is that there is no set camera angle or timeline during the entire experience. Some details that might be seen as important or interesting in a film would be lost because the player was too busy looking around for a switch or zombie."
But that is not the end of it. Why does there have to be a switch or a zombie? Think out of the box. Is it possible to conceive of a video game where everything you actually recognize, or even don't recognize, is there for a reason? It almost seems silly to me that I've never seen a game where I felt that. What you are pointing to is perfect communication, what we all call art.
No set camera angle. Why not? Is it not possible to use dramatic camera angles that do not take away from the game but add to it without cutting off a gamer's communication link? Why does a timeline have to be set in order for there to be meaning? Certainly there is an alternative. If you can think of a rational concept, than it's a rational concept. Matt, please don't misinterpret me. I am not here to say I'm right and your not so please do me the same and just evolve the thought.
#4
Shayne, having come from a post-production/efx and graphic design background, I would like to thank you for introducing this thought-provoking topic. Too often, color is disregarded as a communication medium. I'm glad to see it being given the attention it deserves here.
The problem with a discussion on color (and most other discussions for that matter) is that it lacks a 'frame of reference'. There is no unifying thought process to guide the discussion. Understandably, what often results is that people are using a defining statement, in this case color theory, to debate completely seperate concepts (anatomic process vs. game design).
That being said, let me establish my frame of reference by stating that one of the important, and troublesome, aspects of dealing with color as a "tool" of design is that it is both objective and at the same time subjective.
To explain the difference between the two, subjective processes (influences) change from person to person, while objective processes (observations) are based upon documented events...or else on rules which are forced upon unstructured events, which can be duplicated for every person.
If we are arguing the "subjective" merits of color then the possible avenues of exploration are somewhat limitless and therefore, while intellectually stimulating, also a bit pointless.
Let's look at the color red, for instance...
Take Matt's excellent subjective observation on how color was used in the Matrix [your royalty check's in the mail, Matt]
Ever watched a Christmas movie? With the exception of "Santa Klaws", their use of the color red has a slightly different emphasis. =)
However, if we are discussing the "objective" uses of color, then I think we have a framework for laying down some guidelines for utilizing color as a tool. To be an effective tool, however, it needs to be flexible enough to apapt to a wide array of uses, while maintaining a streamlined interface for ease of use. The development of such a tool is possible (I think) if we build an adaptive framework which is rigid enough to give boundaries, while being open-ended to allow for future growth and/or modification.
The framework of this tool should also be created on a project-by-project basis, since the subjective goals of each project are often unique unto themselves.
Let's take a look at some possible examples of a very generalized color framework for a generic FPS:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
1. Specific colors should be reserved for specific uses.
1a. Actions (triggers, levers, exits, interactive objects, etc.)
1b. Information (signs, books, terminals, etc.)
1c. Emotional triggers (fear, suspense, humor, danger)
2. Color palettes should adhere to the "color wheel" philosophy, or the "warm/cool" philosophy...or some other integrated process, as long as it is adopted as a standard for the project.
3. Color palettes should change for differing environments based upon the following factors:
3a. Moral structure (good guys/bad guys, don't give a sh*t guys)
3b. High/low tech
3c. Climate
3d. Economic level (rich/poor)
3e. Geo-cultural group (suburb, urban, inner city, etc.)
3f. Design theme (gothic, modern, fantasy, land-based, water-based, terran, alien, etc.)
4. RGB intensity values should be increased for objects of significance.
5. Color rules should be applied on a structure-by-structure basis (i.e. models, buildings, players, weapons, lights, environments, etc.)
6. When possible, rules should be also be represented in a graphical format for ease of understanding (i.e. charts, graphs, samples, etc.) for other developers to follow.
7. Number of times colors are used should be linked to importance of factors mentioned in #1, which directly influences the number of said objects placed in a map.
7a. If the number of objects in a map is large enough, and their importance is considered to be high, then their RGB intensity values should be balanced against their prevalence in such maps. (Perhaps the first rule to be cut)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
While being far from an exhaustive list, do you get the point?
By establishing an objective framework for discussion, structure can be given to such an obtuse concept as color usage in games, which will in turn allow the user (gamer) to understand and internalize "our" subjective uses of those colors. THEN color becomes an objective tool to help guide gameplay.
What I'm suggesting is that establishing a series of rules or guidelines for color usage is as esoteric as the end product itself. That doesn't mean that those rules are meaningless. They just matter for the particular project that they are applied to.
Joe is right when he states:
LOL. I totally agree. It's the ability to communicate your intent that makes anything a useable tool.
Perhaps there are some unilateral and unalterable rules for color and how it relates to design, but I have yet to find them. What I have found is that every other industry, apart from the Gaming Industry, sets its own rules for color useage and either purposefully follows them, or, at times, purposefully breaks them...on a project-by-project basis.
I seriously think that this topic merits further exploration. I believe that its benefits to the entire community, and the calibre of games that were subsequently produced, would be profound.
I would like to suggest, as a frame of reference for further discussion, that we begin to establish a living set of 'rules' (guidelines) for the effective use of color in games. Perhaps these need to broken out into genres (RPG, FPS, Strategy, etc.) and sub-genres (Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Horror). Each genre could be overseen by a project leader experienced in making games for that genre (with, hopefully, some experience in color useage). Over time, as the rulesets grow, we could begin to identify a common set of rules that cross these various genres.
Then designers would have a useful "tool" to begin applying color theory to their games, and while they might add/subtract from the ruleset as they see fit, they would be doing so from an informed position with a specific end result in mind.
Perhaps, after discussion amongst us here, this might be deemed important enough to become a TCP. If so, I'd be willing to help get it started and work to see it grow.
At the end of the day, it is all about gameplay and anything that we, as designers, can do to improve that is a win-win for everyone.
03/19/2002 (6:10 pm)
WARNING!!! Long-winded artist speaks his mind. =o)Shayne, having come from a post-production/efx and graphic design background, I would like to thank you for introducing this thought-provoking topic. Too often, color is disregarded as a communication medium. I'm glad to see it being given the attention it deserves here.
The problem with a discussion on color (and most other discussions for that matter) is that it lacks a 'frame of reference'. There is no unifying thought process to guide the discussion. Understandably, what often results is that people are using a defining statement, in this case color theory, to debate completely seperate concepts (anatomic process vs. game design).
That being said, let me establish my frame of reference by stating that one of the important, and troublesome, aspects of dealing with color as a "tool" of design is that it is both objective and at the same time subjective.
To explain the difference between the two, subjective processes (influences) change from person to person, while objective processes (observations) are based upon documented events...or else on rules which are forced upon unstructured events, which can be duplicated for every person.
If we are arguing the "subjective" merits of color then the possible avenues of exploration are somewhat limitless and therefore, while intellectually stimulating, also a bit pointless.
Let's look at the color red, for instance...
Take Matt's excellent subjective observation on how color was used in the Matrix [your royalty check's in the mail, Matt]
Quote:...red is still related to life but usually injury, damage, or death...That's his subjective interpetation for what he feels the color red was used for, and in terms of the Matrix, he's probably right.
Ever watched a Christmas movie? With the exception of "Santa Klaws", their use of the color red has a slightly different emphasis. =)
However, if we are discussing the "objective" uses of color, then I think we have a framework for laying down some guidelines for utilizing color as a tool. To be an effective tool, however, it needs to be flexible enough to apapt to a wide array of uses, while maintaining a streamlined interface for ease of use. The development of such a tool is possible (I think) if we build an adaptive framework which is rigid enough to give boundaries, while being open-ended to allow for future growth and/or modification.
The framework of this tool should also be created on a project-by-project basis, since the subjective goals of each project are often unique unto themselves.
Let's take a look at some possible examples of a very generalized color framework for a generic FPS:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
1. Specific colors should be reserved for specific uses.
1a. Actions (triggers, levers, exits, interactive objects, etc.)
1b. Information (signs, books, terminals, etc.)
1c. Emotional triggers (fear, suspense, humor, danger)
2. Color palettes should adhere to the "color wheel" philosophy, or the "warm/cool" philosophy...or some other integrated process, as long as it is adopted as a standard for the project.
3. Color palettes should change for differing environments based upon the following factors:
3a. Moral structure (good guys/bad guys, don't give a sh*t guys)
3b. High/low tech
3c. Climate
3d. Economic level (rich/poor)
3e. Geo-cultural group (suburb, urban, inner city, etc.)
3f. Design theme (gothic, modern, fantasy, land-based, water-based, terran, alien, etc.)
4. RGB intensity values should be increased for objects of significance.
5. Color rules should be applied on a structure-by-structure basis (i.e. models, buildings, players, weapons, lights, environments, etc.)
6. When possible, rules should be also be represented in a graphical format for ease of understanding (i.e. charts, graphs, samples, etc.) for other developers to follow.
7. Number of times colors are used should be linked to importance of factors mentioned in #1, which directly influences the number of said objects placed in a map.
7a. If the number of objects in a map is large enough, and their importance is considered to be high, then their RGB intensity values should be balanced against their prevalence in such maps. (Perhaps the first rule to be cut)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
While being far from an exhaustive list, do you get the point?
By establishing an objective framework for discussion, structure can be given to such an obtuse concept as color usage in games, which will in turn allow the user (gamer) to understand and internalize "our" subjective uses of those colors. THEN color becomes an objective tool to help guide gameplay.
What I'm suggesting is that establishing a series of rules or guidelines for color usage is as esoteric as the end product itself. That doesn't mean that those rules are meaningless. They just matter for the particular project that they are applied to.
Joe is right when he states:
Quote:To understand color theory, you must be able to contextualize the associations of colors to create graphic compositions that communicate your intent.
LOL. I totally agree. It's the ability to communicate your intent that makes anything a useable tool.
Perhaps there are some unilateral and unalterable rules for color and how it relates to design, but I have yet to find them. What I have found is that every other industry, apart from the Gaming Industry, sets its own rules for color useage and either purposefully follows them, or, at times, purposefully breaks them...on a project-by-project basis.
I seriously think that this topic merits further exploration. I believe that its benefits to the entire community, and the calibre of games that were subsequently produced, would be profound.
I would like to suggest, as a frame of reference for further discussion, that we begin to establish a living set of 'rules' (guidelines) for the effective use of color in games. Perhaps these need to broken out into genres (RPG, FPS, Strategy, etc.) and sub-genres (Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Horror). Each genre could be overseen by a project leader experienced in making games for that genre (with, hopefully, some experience in color useage). Over time, as the rulesets grow, we could begin to identify a common set of rules that cross these various genres.
Then designers would have a useful "tool" to begin applying color theory to their games, and while they might add/subtract from the ruleset as they see fit, they would be doing so from an informed position with a specific end result in mind.
Perhaps, after discussion amongst us here, this might be deemed important enough to become a TCP. If so, I'd be willing to help get it started and work to see it grow.
At the end of the day, it is all about gameplay and anything that we, as designers, can do to improve that is a win-win for everyone.
#5
Now the Matrix used a basic Sepia desaturation scheme. Since the desaturated film, and ESPECIALLY the shadows, were primarily blue to begin with, they ended up being slightly greenish after the Sepia tones were added.
This was done probably more to create a continuous feel than anything else. Desaturation has an incredible power to create a unique, persistent feel for film/video. Look at "o Brother, Where Art Thou?" and "Lord of the Rings".
Those movies were all nontraditional movies, and they all used desaturation -- in O Brother's case, to an extreme that would have been intolerable if it were not for the kind of movie that it was.
My knowledge of desaturation techniques in video is really all I can add from a data standpoint; I haven't studied Color Theory -- although I am somewhat familiar with it (I understand that there are colors that can't be represented using a traditional RGB pallette, which I find a little strange, but frankly I think it's moot until it works its way down into both common file formats and hardware capability) -- but I would like to add a little creative input.
Color does more to create a mood in video games than anything else. Not modelling, not texturing, not even music. Color, light and shadow and shades of sunlight, produces a consistent reaction in us every time we stumble across a familiar combination.
endit
I think
03/19/2002 (6:38 pm)
The Matrix used desaturation, and it was the first major film to really use it successfully. But it didn't add green, it just used a mild sepia hue. They did this because when you do ordinary desaturation, things tend to have a blueish look, especially in outdoor shots. Heh, I don't know why, I just know that this always happens whenever I try.Now the Matrix used a basic Sepia desaturation scheme. Since the desaturated film, and ESPECIALLY the shadows, were primarily blue to begin with, they ended up being slightly greenish after the Sepia tones were added.
This was done probably more to create a continuous feel than anything else. Desaturation has an incredible power to create a unique, persistent feel for film/video. Look at "o Brother, Where Art Thou?" and "Lord of the Rings".
Those movies were all nontraditional movies, and they all used desaturation -- in O Brother's case, to an extreme that would have been intolerable if it were not for the kind of movie that it was.
My knowledge of desaturation techniques in video is really all I can add from a data standpoint; I haven't studied Color Theory -- although I am somewhat familiar with it (I understand that there are colors that can't be represented using a traditional RGB pallette, which I find a little strange, but frankly I think it's moot until it works its way down into both common file formats and hardware capability) -- but I would like to add a little creative input.
Color does more to create a mood in video games than anything else. Not modelling, not texturing, not even music. Color, light and shadow and shades of sunlight, produces a consistent reaction in us every time we stumble across a familiar combination.
endit
I think
#6
"Something's gonna come out and try to kill the main character! I just don't know if it's out of the sewer, through the kitchen window, or falling through the roof!"
In games, Half-Life being a good example, we know something spectactular will happen in the next few minutes. Probably relating to us being in a bad situation and we gotta run or gun something down. While this really does up the immersion of a game, it still is predictable. Don't get me wrong, expecting a giant zombie but getting a tiny face-hugger thing instead in Half-Life made me jump. When people expect the unexpected then the element of surprise is worn thin. "Oh great, where's the zombie or hidden switch?" becomes the way many games are played when the use of fear is the backbone of the game (check out Resident Evil series for this kind of gameplay)
As for color, yes. It is very subjective in most uses. Red can be love, anger, desire, hatred, death, life, pain, sex... it all depends on the situation.
I think the most enjoyable part of symbolism is the fact that there is usually little forced meaning. One of my favorite parts about The Sixth sense was the fact that the color red was used to guide us along the interactions between the supernatural world and the real-world. One of the reasons you might not pick up on the importance of the color red in the film until after you learn the goal the director had was due to not everyone linking red with the same theme. Personally, death I relate black or grey. While I understand what he was going for, his use of color would have been more influential if the viewer would consciously link red to death.
After knowing his intent, going through the film you will actively realize the use of red and it's importance.
And yes, I agree. Color and light are the most important aspect of the graphical part of games. Color and light will remind us of some feeling or situation, and save the artist or programmer the work of having to build up the emotion of the scene. No need to have loud music blaring or screams in the background when you're in a dark room where the shadowy outline of some being lurks.
Aside from very few of main color relations, the user could interpret them differently than was intended. I guess the real skill isn't knowing what colors would suit the situation, but what colors would guide the person seeing them to come to the one conclusion you want them to reach. You want them to feel like they are in control of their emotions throughout the experience, and make them unwittingly wander into the emotion you wanted them to feel.
I'm not quite the best artist, but this was something I used extensively in level design. You shouldn't need to put up massive signs that say "This is a science research facility!" to make them understand where they are in the game. They should be able to look at their surroundings and draw that conclusion without being subjected to cliche images or messages that pander to the ignorant.
One example of how not to do this is the original Wolfenstien 3d. "Hmm, where am I? Oh look! it's Hitler on the wall! A swastika! Wow, these Nazi's sure know how to decorate!". While the Nazi regime wasn't quite the most subtle group, it wasn't anywhere near as blatant as it was in Wolfenstien. The user was treated like an idiot child wandering through a history museum.
The user must feel like they are in control in interpreting things, but in order to maximize the response the creator must quietly guide the user to only one logical conclusion.
Sorry if this is a bit off track, but this discussion has also made me think of something related. To me, the one thing that can recreate a scene more than any other sense is smell. While it's not a part of games yet, it will definately be a groundbreaking step.
I can just smell the air in early October and it will always remind me of Halloween and going trick-or-treating with friends. I can smell fresh cut grass and get instantly transported back 10 years to summer days in elementary school.
More than photorealistic graphics or flawless 3d sound... I look forward to the introduction of smell into games. Well... to an extent. I don't wanna have to smell decaying corpses or some flatulent Ogre.
03/19/2002 (7:09 pm)
I never said it was good that the player might miss a subtle detail because they are looking for a zombie or a switch, just that it's what happens due to the way current games are. I'd prefer that the user have no clue on what is about to happen, but that really doesn't occur in games except to the limit we see in horror movies."Something's gonna come out and try to kill the main character! I just don't know if it's out of the sewer, through the kitchen window, or falling through the roof!"
In games, Half-Life being a good example, we know something spectactular will happen in the next few minutes. Probably relating to us being in a bad situation and we gotta run or gun something down. While this really does up the immersion of a game, it still is predictable. Don't get me wrong, expecting a giant zombie but getting a tiny face-hugger thing instead in Half-Life made me jump. When people expect the unexpected then the element of surprise is worn thin. "Oh great, where's the zombie or hidden switch?" becomes the way many games are played when the use of fear is the backbone of the game (check out Resident Evil series for this kind of gameplay)
As for color, yes. It is very subjective in most uses. Red can be love, anger, desire, hatred, death, life, pain, sex... it all depends on the situation.
I think the most enjoyable part of symbolism is the fact that there is usually little forced meaning. One of my favorite parts about The Sixth sense was the fact that the color red was used to guide us along the interactions between the supernatural world and the real-world. One of the reasons you might not pick up on the importance of the color red in the film until after you learn the goal the director had was due to not everyone linking red with the same theme. Personally, death I relate black or grey. While I understand what he was going for, his use of color would have been more influential if the viewer would consciously link red to death.
After knowing his intent, going through the film you will actively realize the use of red and it's importance.
And yes, I agree. Color and light are the most important aspect of the graphical part of games. Color and light will remind us of some feeling or situation, and save the artist or programmer the work of having to build up the emotion of the scene. No need to have loud music blaring or screams in the background when you're in a dark room where the shadowy outline of some being lurks.
Aside from very few of main color relations, the user could interpret them differently than was intended. I guess the real skill isn't knowing what colors would suit the situation, but what colors would guide the person seeing them to come to the one conclusion you want them to reach. You want them to feel like they are in control of their emotions throughout the experience, and make them unwittingly wander into the emotion you wanted them to feel.
I'm not quite the best artist, but this was something I used extensively in level design. You shouldn't need to put up massive signs that say "This is a science research facility!" to make them understand where they are in the game. They should be able to look at their surroundings and draw that conclusion without being subjected to cliche images or messages that pander to the ignorant.
One example of how not to do this is the original Wolfenstien 3d. "Hmm, where am I? Oh look! it's Hitler on the wall! A swastika! Wow, these Nazi's sure know how to decorate!". While the Nazi regime wasn't quite the most subtle group, it wasn't anywhere near as blatant as it was in Wolfenstien. The user was treated like an idiot child wandering through a history museum.
The user must feel like they are in control in interpreting things, but in order to maximize the response the creator must quietly guide the user to only one logical conclusion.
Sorry if this is a bit off track, but this discussion has also made me think of something related. To me, the one thing that can recreate a scene more than any other sense is smell. While it's not a part of games yet, it will definately be a groundbreaking step.
I can just smell the air in early October and it will always remind me of Halloween and going trick-or-treating with friends. I can smell fresh cut grass and get instantly transported back 10 years to summer days in elementary school.
More than photorealistic graphics or flawless 3d sound... I look forward to the introduction of smell into games. Well... to an extent. I don't wanna have to smell decaying corpses or some flatulent Ogre.
Torque Owner Matt Webster
The red pill effectively killed Neo's former self. The muted colors in the "real world" giving the feeling of despair or the realization of the harsh reality. The warm colors found in the Oracle's hall and apartment.
The matrix is a good example of colors used to enhance the emotion of the scene, but many things could be left up for interpretation.
Probably a better example would be with The Sixth Sense. At the end of the film the director explains how they specifically removed all red from the film except when it related to some sort of presence of death.
Probably the most blatant use of color to invoke emotion is in Schindler's List and the young girls red dress as you see her early in the film. The film is black and white, and it's very poignant when the red dress is seen later in the film in a pile of garbage and ash.
Color is very effective in film and art, but I don't see an easy way to really use it to it's full potential in games. Sure, graphical themes... cartoon, industrial, gothic. In movies most every thing you see that you actually recognize and look at is meant to occur. That allows for creative use of color, lighting and synbolism. The problem with games is that there is no set camera angle or timeline during the entire experience. Some details that might be seen as important or interesting in a film would be lost because the player was too busy looking around for a switch or zombie.