What do I want to do? (2.5D Game)
by Matt Hughson · in General Discussion · 02/25/2006 (11:14 am) · 6 replies
Hey Guys,
I'm currently working on a 2.5D game in a custom engine I wrote. It's kind of like contra, but with 3D graphics, but the game plays in 2 dimensions (think Super Smash Bros., Nights, etc). We are still pretty early along: we have a test harness level up and running, with a player running around and shooting etc. No AI, no real assets, or game events.
I am starting to think about switching to Torque in order to give the artists a bit more freedom, and take some of the coding pressure off myself.
I have some questions though:
1) How long do you think it would take to get to the same point in dev (as described above) using the TGE? I am a fairly competent programmer, and our artist is very competent with moding and some coding.
2) I've heard some people say for some stuff to just download the free demo, and alter scripts rather than buying the full product. Is that something you would recomend for the project I've described? What do I get by buying the engine that I can't do with the demo? Just access to the source code?
3) If I did decide to just work off the demo, and later decided I would like to alter some of the source code, how hard is it to port the work I would have done to the full version?
4) Is T2D able to handle 3D models and Geometry (not prerendered)? I seem to read mixed opinions about this.
5) Has anyone tried making a 2.5D game in TGE? How did you find it? Did it feel like you were hacking in functionality that the engine really isn't designed to handle?
I think that's it for now :P What I really want to know is from someone who has experience with the engines, how would YOU approach this project? Thanks!
Matt Hughson
I'm currently working on a 2.5D game in a custom engine I wrote. It's kind of like contra, but with 3D graphics, but the game plays in 2 dimensions (think Super Smash Bros., Nights, etc). We are still pretty early along: we have a test harness level up and running, with a player running around and shooting etc. No AI, no real assets, or game events.
I am starting to think about switching to Torque in order to give the artists a bit more freedom, and take some of the coding pressure off myself.
I have some questions though:
1) How long do you think it would take to get to the same point in dev (as described above) using the TGE? I am a fairly competent programmer, and our artist is very competent with moding and some coding.
2) I've heard some people say for some stuff to just download the free demo, and alter scripts rather than buying the full product. Is that something you would recomend for the project I've described? What do I get by buying the engine that I can't do with the demo? Just access to the source code?
3) If I did decide to just work off the demo, and later decided I would like to alter some of the source code, how hard is it to port the work I would have done to the full version?
4) Is T2D able to handle 3D models and Geometry (not prerendered)? I seem to read mixed opinions about this.
5) Has anyone tried making a 2.5D game in TGE? How did you find it? Did it feel like you were hacking in functionality that the engine really isn't designed to handle?
I think that's it for now :P What I really want to know is from someone who has experience with the engines, how would YOU approach this project? Thanks!
Matt Hughson
#2
Anyone else have opinions on this stuff? Especially #1.
Matt
02/25/2006 (1:58 pm)
Ok thanks for the input Lee-Orr!Anyone else have opinions on this stuff? Especially #1.
Matt
#3
2. If you consider doing what I mentioned, you wouldn't really need any source changes to get a character in the mission and have a simple level running.
5. If you used TGE then you could simulate 2D, and anywhere in between there and 3D.
02/25/2006 (2:08 pm)
1. I think it wouldn't take that much time, using the starter.fps mod, if all you wanted was a character running around in a mission.2. If you consider doing what I mentioned, you wouldn't really need any source changes to get a character in the mission and have a simple level running.
5. If you used TGE then you could simulate 2D, and anywhere in between there and 3D.
#4
I think a lot of this also depends how you want to go about building levels, as this woud be a vastly different process depending what engine you used. Using TGE you're probably going to build levels primary out of custom .dif object, and maybe the terrain engine if you want. It will give you a lot of capability for having interesting dynamic backgrounds, rotating cameras through worlds, etc.
I'm not nearly as familiar with T2D, but I'm guessing you could still make something 2.5D using 3D models and parallax to build the levels. I know it does have a vastly superior effects system to TGE as far as particles go. And they seem to be adding all kinds of world building tools for it every day, seeing as it's still in development.
So... yeah... take that for what you will, maybe poke at the demos of both a little, and see what you think will work best for what it is you want to do.
02/25/2006 (3:17 pm)
I've seen a game demo in the past using TGE that had a side scrolling setup with cutaway .difs for a level setup and Abuse style controls. This does take a good deal of source changes to get though. You're going to need to implement a modified camera, a new control mechanism for players, etc. TGE is also not going to handle a ton of projectiles at once very well without modification, especially if you're wanting this multiplayer over network. I would imagine that T2D is going to be much easier to setup as far as coding goes for a basic 2d shooter. I think a lot of this also depends how you want to go about building levels, as this woud be a vastly different process depending what engine you used. Using TGE you're probably going to build levels primary out of custom .dif object, and maybe the terrain engine if you want. It will give you a lot of capability for having interesting dynamic backgrounds, rotating cameras through worlds, etc.
I'm not nearly as familiar with T2D, but I'm guessing you could still make something 2.5D using 3D models and parallax to build the levels. I know it does have a vastly superior effects system to TGE as far as particles go. And they seem to be adding all kinds of world building tools for it every day, seeing as it's still in development.
So... yeah... take that for what you will, maybe poke at the demos of both a little, and see what you think will work best for what it is you want to do.
#5
You will need access to the source in order to implement the kind of functionality that you want. Theres also a plethora of resources on this website that can actually do a lot of the work for you. For example, search for Advanced Camera, it can take care of the camera functionality that you need and is easy to modify.
You can also take advantage of Torque's 3D capabilities, especially its terrain and DIFs, even if you are making a '2D' game. This will open a lot of doors for creativity, and different environments. Not that you can't accomplish the same in your own engine, but you wont have to deal with writing, testing, debugging, and basicaly spending a lot of time creating tech that already exists. For $100, you can't beat it.
Plus, Torque has superior network code to pretty much anything in existance. In Tribes2 I could play in a game with 32 other people(including vehicles, turrets, ect. all going on at once), on a 28.8k connection. Thats a pretty good judgement on what Torque will be able to handle out of the box, being its the same network code and all. And, yes, I said 32, and no, I'm not bullshitting. Unreal can kiss my ass.
You could also check out OpenTNL, or buy a license to TNL if you want just the network code to implement into your own engine.
In reality, Torque just has too much useful functionality, that can be used for pretty much any type of game, to go into an indepth discussion about. If you buy Torque and start looking through some of the source, you will eventually discover some cool functionality that were not 'showcased' in the demo, or the starter kits. Hm.. I've been saying 'useful functionality' a lot today for some reason :P.
Anyways, I hope I didn't go out of scope of what information you were seeking. So I'll leave you on one final note: using Torque(or any game engine, really, but I recommend Torque out of all) will vastly cut your development time down. Plus, I'd really like to play a 2.5D game that is made in the essence of something like Contra. Contra was a great game, and I even remember my bro and I as kids playing the original. Would be even more cool to see it done in Torque.
-Jase
02/25/2006 (6:31 pm)
I would honestly recommend using TGE or T2D, as it contains a lot of functionality that you won't have to deal with writing yourself. When you buy Torque, you get the source code, and two starter kits: the FPS starter kit, and a racing starter kit. They are basicaly script only examples.You will need access to the source in order to implement the kind of functionality that you want. Theres also a plethora of resources on this website that can actually do a lot of the work for you. For example, search for Advanced Camera, it can take care of the camera functionality that you need and is easy to modify.
You can also take advantage of Torque's 3D capabilities, especially its terrain and DIFs, even if you are making a '2D' game. This will open a lot of doors for creativity, and different environments. Not that you can't accomplish the same in your own engine, but you wont have to deal with writing, testing, debugging, and basicaly spending a lot of time creating tech that already exists. For $100, you can't beat it.
Plus, Torque has superior network code to pretty much anything in existance. In Tribes2 I could play in a game with 32 other people(including vehicles, turrets, ect. all going on at once), on a 28.8k connection. Thats a pretty good judgement on what Torque will be able to handle out of the box, being its the same network code and all. And, yes, I said 32, and no, I'm not bullshitting. Unreal can kiss my ass.
You could also check out OpenTNL, or buy a license to TNL if you want just the network code to implement into your own engine.
In reality, Torque just has too much useful functionality, that can be used for pretty much any type of game, to go into an indepth discussion about. If you buy Torque and start looking through some of the source, you will eventually discover some cool functionality that were not 'showcased' in the demo, or the starter kits. Hm.. I've been saying 'useful functionality' a lot today for some reason :P.
Anyways, I hope I didn't go out of scope of what information you were seeking. So I'll leave you on one final note: using Torque(or any game engine, really, but I recommend Torque out of all) will vastly cut your development time down. Plus, I'd really like to play a 2.5D game that is made in the essence of something like Contra. Contra was a great game, and I even remember my bro and I as kids playing the original. Would be even more cool to see it done in Torque.
-Jase
#6
Thanks again!
Matt
02/26/2006 (12:33 pm)
Thanks for all the input guys! I ended up getting TGE, and so far things are looking good.Thanks again!
Matt
Torque Owner Lee-Orr Orbach
2) You could try, but there is no garrenty it will work(most chances are you will need to buy TGE or T2D)
3) No work at all, just copy the folder that includes the game(mind, not the folder with the .exe/.bin/executable, but the folder with the scripts.
4) T2D(TGB) is a perfectly able 2D engine, that has the ability to render 3D objects, but it cant render real 3D terrain, or have a 3D camera(even thou you can create a terrain using .dts files(torques 3D model files) and simulate a 3D camera buy rotating the objects.
5) I think there are people who tried, but I'm not one of them. If I understand your needs correctly, you might consider T2D as a better option. In addition, you wont need to hack the engine alot, if at all.
hope that helps,
Lee-Orr