Is FPS starter kit a 'real game' (engine)?

#1 The fps starter kit is the basic framework for a game. it has a complete mission, showing off a lot of the things you can do with the engine. It's not a complete game, but just a demo

It is very easy to mod, and you can produce something really nice just by modifying the starter.fps scripts, in fact I think that's what most people do.

#2 Ok. thanks for the quick reply.

#3 No problem

i almost forgot, go here and download the first one on the page. That is the FPS starter kit demo if you want to check it out before you make the decision to buy

#4 Oh, so that is the starter kit demo. Right. I've checked that earlier.

Thanks again.

#5 Is it April 1st already?
FPS starterkit IS a fully featured networked FPS game as is, all you would need to do for a proof of concept type game is well... Actually nothing, but you may want to put in your very own art at least.

Just so you know TGE is dollar for dollar the best deal in gaming, for the cost of a couple of video games you can have an engine which is only limited by your imagination.
Also TGE comes with a racing game demo, and there is a mod kit comming which will add RPG and MMORPG capabilities to the engine.

Regards,
Dreamer

#6 Its more or less an unfinished Engine.
-Flying Vehicle class crashes engine
-Hover vehicle behave like crap
-If u want a tank class u have to pay for it
-Wheled vehicles need too much netload if u use lots of em... so laaaag.
- Charakter movement missing things like crouch swimming or lying positions and u have to change the Engine code to get this to work.
(if u get it to work ... lol)
- no normal projectiles implemented (Yes, no bullets like in other shooters)
- No reload or secondary fire functionality for weapons, you have to make your own scripts for this.
- NO Linux support (they expect Linux users to program the linux thing themselfes).
- Its an engine thats more than 5 Years old (if u not upgrade whith TSE)
- You have to pay more than 100$ to really get started
100$ Tourque game engine (ONE SEAT LICENSE)
150$ Tourque shader engine(Still beta and unfinished)(ONE SEAT LICENSE)
50$ Lightning kit
34$ Tank pack (only vehicle class that realy works if u manage to compile it into the engine)
34$ Show tool pro (the build in modelviewer is crap)
4.400$ 3ds Max (the only modeling program really supported)
34$ Soldier pack cause there is no base model implemented that u can modify for your own needs (the ork has no animations available)
---------------------
=Ouch!!

- Its gonna cost you much more if u want to sell your game.(TGE $ 495, TSE $ 995 per ONE SEAT LICENSE ! If u got 5 programmer...! )

- if u have no skills in C++ forget about using this engine, cause whithout it u got no chance of making a game , because most resources require to modifie the engine itself (for example if u need projectiles that work like in any other shooter).

So in other words ....
i have bought it , and i say :
DON'T buy it !!!

btw. The Netcode is really good, still playable whith latency of 300ms.

#7 @dreamer: yes, I saw the demo.

@norbert heimsath: lol. thanks for scaring me :) .... so I need a soldier pack to build my game, eh? ;) even when I don't use soldiers in my game :) - and yes... I have an artist working for my company. And skilled c++ programmer as well.

Anyway - let's stop the NO - YES flame war right away (well, at least I won't be watching it, I've seen enough). Torque seems like a great piece to our dev team.

Thanks all.

#8 You make all animations by yourself .. ok u dont need the soldier pack :-) (or maybe u make a racing game or whatever)

If u think of making a commercial Game its just a fact that comercial engines are the way to go .
(even q3 engine is more complete and portabe..... and i think they made it free like the q2 some time ago (not sure about that).
If u make a mod u got the problem that pepole have to buy the Game first and then have to pay for the mod .

If u want to make everthing on your own and u got a low buget,
its a good idea to take a look at things like Crystal Space, Blender and other really free engines.

Tourque is somewhere in between based on the Tribes 2 Engine its missing lots of things (even some of the T2 Functions, some of them had to be removed cause of license problems) , but its more complete than the most free engines.

btw. it looks like your company already using torque for Morphlings.com

#9 Norbert: I think you're confused about the licensing. Once you buy TGE you are entitled to sell your game. If you (or the company developing the game) earns more than a certain amount, then you need to buy the commercial license, but you are perfectly fine to develop using the $100 indie license and sell your game.

You don't *need* to buy any of the other stuff you've listed either.

It sounds like you've had some trouble with TGE and are just grinding your axe a bit.

#10 @Norbert, wow I had no idea there were that many problems with TGE.

For instance I'm not sure what you mean by the whole Linux thing, since for instance I use Linux on a daily basis, come to think of it I develop exclusively for the Linux platform, and yet the only issue I know of were some build file issues that have been solved for over a month already.

As far as the comment about commericial games using commercial engines, and then recommending freeware engine like crystal space... I really don't follow you in fact as far as I know Crystal Space is not even being used by any commercial game, with the exception of Planeshift I don't even think it's being used in any game at all. Blender is not a game engine it is an art tool which happens to have python scripting support so there is a little game engine in Blender but I'm pretty sure it's been broken for awhile.
Also good luck trying to get more than 20-30 people into a Q2 or Q3 server, it'll be problematic at best and lag death central pretty regularly.

Also what exactly is your issue with the GarageGames license? A commercial license is only needed if

A) You want to remove the GG splash screen, which is no biggie since I know of no game which doesn't use the engine splashscreen at startup.

B) You want to use TGE for something which is NOT a game, such as NASA using it for simulators (yes NASA uses TGE)

C) Your game sells more than $250,000 in a given year.

Anyways Norbert, we all feel your pain, as it must be frustrating to spend a $100 on the engine that powers so many shipping games, some of which are best of class and top sellers, and not know how to script, or how to code, or how to produce your own art assets, be unwilling or unable to learn to do those things and still expect the Game fairy to visit your product. On the other hand a little elbow grease can and in fact has, produced incredible results.

And finally you get one thing with TGE you can't buy at any price anywhere. Thats the GarageGames community. If you haven't been a member yet you wouldn't understand, but the benefits of being a member here are too numerous to count if you're a budding game developer.

#11 @Norbert
Um, there is so much wrong with your posts that I don't even know where to begin. If you could not figure out how to change projectiles in script or have trouble with C++, I really don't think you should be recommending Quake 3 or Crystal Space...or really much of anything. I can't think of anything other than your final comment on the netcode being good that is even close to "correct". It is all just so...incoherently inaccurate.

#12 Blender has come out with a new version. they fixed alot of the bugs from the previous and they added a few more features, Blender still has a built in game engine. but it isnt a powerful one. It was mainly put in so the modeler or artist can see his or her work in action before moving on. Blender also has a book out that shows you short curs and how to work basics of Blender.

I have no idea about C++ or anything else. Through the Garage Game community ther are members putting up tutorials to help others out. If you heard 3d programming all in one. nice book. its bases everything around Torque. A new book Advanced 3D programming All in One is out that realy digs into the engine more. I have the first and it helping me understand more about programming. once you get it everything will fall into place.

#13 There really should be a warning on the Torque product page saying:

"Only purchase if you are willing TO LEARN."

Wait...

Game developers (and any programmers) should have expected that in the first place.

#14 Cmon guys, I think we need to be more gentle on Norbert Heimsath.

I agree he could have worded his complaints a little more tactfully, and some of them seem to come down to user inadequacy rather than engine inadequcacy. However, it's only fair to inform a potential buyer of the good and the bad. How else can one be expected to make a properly infomed decision about purchase?

Torque is a great engine, there's no escaping that but it does have room for improvement. There are a lot of frustrating bugs in the engine which make you want to bang your head against a brick wall, but there are also a lot of great features which make your life as a developer so much easier and fun.

I guess it's all about balance. Someone makes a point above about Torque shipping best of class and top selling games. Think of it this way, if the Tribes series had been more successful none of us would be using this engine right now. It's funny how things sometimes things work out for the best, though it may not appear that way at first, and how people misinterpret information.

There's my 2 cents worth. I value and adore this community and above is just a reflection of my opinions and my opinions only. Please don't get offened or take the defensive, the amount I contribute to this community should be proof enough of my positive regard for this engine and its community. I just feel some people here need to be a little more open minded and objective. Or you could choose to ignore what I just said, in that case flame away.

#15 The problem with game engines is:
There is no "One size fits all". Wether it's a freebie, or you pay big $$$. There's always something you need that it doesn't have, so you'll need to modify it. The great thing about TGE is that you get the engine source so you can modify it to your hearts content. :)

#16 Torque does come with a VERY basic FPS started kit that is good to help you find our way around the engine. But to make anything worthwhile that can cut it in todays growing more competent indie developer scene your going to have to do a hell of a lot of work.

Torque is very easy to tweak, but to produce anything original can be very difficult and probably not for beginners. It has a generaly weak art path, but does have some very nice character animation features. The scripting is a bit limited if you want to make a full blown cutting edge game. You really will have to have decent coders who are willing to use C++ and learn how the engine works.

The engine as it stands in 1.4 is well commented. If you expect to make a game with torque and come up with anything useful with the art resources and scripts provided in the SDK, then your going to be really disappointed. When you consider that 1000's have bought the engine before you and have access to all the same stuff, your really not going to produce anything original without creating something yourself.

I wouldn't recommend the FPS genre and trying to compete with commercial games on that front unless you have a big talented team. FPS can be undemanding on the coding front, but as a consequence requires a huge amount of varied locales and media in order to keep the player interested. If you just stick to what your given in the SDK you will have a very generic FPS with a very samey feel to all the other torque FPS projects that didn't try and move on and develop the engine into something new.

A real game engine should be able to handle player input, audio, collisions, AI, possibly physics and networking and the FPS starter kit does provide all of these so I'd consider it a game engine yeah :)