Games Workshops ?
by Nauris Krauze · in Site Feedback · 04/03/2001 (6:21 am) · 7 replies
I have observed the Game Ideas section recently and have came to
conclusion, that this idea works only for 50 percent. Most of the indies
here work as lone wolves anyway being affraid to show others their ideas.
And those who dare recieve just some constructive ideas or just posts like
"cool idea" (or: "I think ive seen something similar before..":)
What I think - Game Ideas section should be converted into some kind of
Games Workshop section (conceptualy - based on the same forum system just more expanded) where author of the idea posts sort of sketch of design doc -
basic idea, some thoughts on gameplay, story and so on, maybe even post
some describing pictures, and then others can add their ideas about
gameplay, story or even main concept. Gameplay has its own miniforum, so does story, overall concept and so on.
Games Workshop could stimulate working more in groups, find similar thinking people among GG visitors and also train us explain ourselves and ideas clearly.
The most original project ideas could be incarnated in design docs later and maybe some starting team would like to implement this idea.
conclusion, that this idea works only for 50 percent. Most of the indies
here work as lone wolves anyway being affraid to show others their ideas.
And those who dare recieve just some constructive ideas or just posts like
"cool idea" (or: "I think ive seen something similar before..":)
What I think - Game Ideas section should be converted into some kind of
Games Workshop section (conceptualy - based on the same forum system just more expanded) where author of the idea posts sort of sketch of design doc -
basic idea, some thoughts on gameplay, story and so on, maybe even post
some describing pictures, and then others can add their ideas about
gameplay, story or even main concept. Gameplay has its own miniforum, so does story, overall concept and so on.
Games Workshop could stimulate working more in groups, find similar thinking people among GG visitors and also train us explain ourselves and ideas clearly.
The most original project ideas could be incarnated in design docs later and maybe some starting team would like to implement this idea.
About the author
Nauris Krauze is 2D designer/illustrator with 10 years experience in game development. Currently art director at 3Nstudio, working on games for social networks, occasionally doing some contract work. Portfolio: http://3nstudio.com/nauris/
#2
04/03/2001 (7:13 am)
I also think this is an excellent idea! I would recommend keeping the free form, anything goes Game Ideas forum so that people can just throw out random ideas and have discussions about general gameplay without focusing on a specific game (a Workshop could be intimidating). Then if someone has a more specific idea about a game then they can workshop it. One thing to think about is how to handle people carrying on about someone stealing their idea. You could either have some sort of agreement that any ideas workshopped are open hunting ground for any development studio or an agreement that if a developer wants to use an idea they have to approach the originator. 
#3
We would have no method of policing or attributing the original idea to any creator. If you don't want the idea to be used by others, then don't post it.
Jeff Tunnell GG
04/03/2001 (12:04 pm)
I would argue for the open hunting format. Like I have stated many times, it isn't the idea, it is the implementation. The process fo fleshing out an idea is good for everybody. We would have no method of policing or attributing the original idea to any creator. If you don't want the idea to be used by others, then don't post it.
Jeff Tunnell GG
#4
Jeff Tunnell wrote:
So why are developers afraid to show off their ideas? Do we exist in such and unethical industry that we as co-developers(GarageGames and Indies) have to worry about other developers stealing our ideas?
Wouldn't it be in the best interest of GarageGames to protect the indie developers who want to develop their games with the V12 engine? Afterall, GarageGames is offering to go into business with anyone who licenses V12 and delivers a viable product. I have read the license agreements (V12, End User) and there isn't any mention about a indie developers rights. How are we protected? Specifically in terms of intellectual properties and the ideas that are exchanged on these forums.
If anyone, regardless of who it is can just come to the site and go into a 'workshop' and read what another team has been brain storming and take those ideas without regard for who might of thought of it then whats the point in even having a 'workshop' or even a forum for that matter. No one will post any worth while ideas.
All you will get is a bunch of newbies to fall victim to this trap where people that are actually in the industry can have a gander at new and fresh ideas and run with them not concerned about the people who might have thought of it.
I have seen this happen before in the film business and TV and even the web. IT HAPPENS FOLKS.
I'm not saying that everyone in the industry are a bunch of hacks but there's always that bad apple. I keep seeing, 'post your ideas', 'yeah keep it up!'( I even fell into it and I apologize ) 'start listing your ideas!'. For what? Anyone that I would really like to hear from ain't saying a damn thing about their ideas.
You might as well just have a site that says buy V12 and here are some books you can buy to help you out.
Sorry, but I don't see how this can benefit indies wanting to create games. Everyone is always saying lets be innovative and lets be creative but everyone stumbles over there own feet trying to do it themselves and capitalize on whatever they can? If computer programming is an art than why do we treat the business just like the corporate obelisk that we all hate?
I'm not attacking anyone here. I'm attacking the concept in general. I think GarageGames has the potential for being great but what about the little guy?
04/03/2001 (1:17 pm)
I completely agree with Matthew.Jeff Tunnell wrote:
Quote: I have too many ideas of my own, and I still think that ideas are not the big deal. It is the implementation of the idea that counts.
So why are developers afraid to show off their ideas? Do we exist in such and unethical industry that we as co-developers(GarageGames and Indies) have to worry about other developers stealing our ideas?
Wouldn't it be in the best interest of GarageGames to protect the indie developers who want to develop their games with the V12 engine? Afterall, GarageGames is offering to go into business with anyone who licenses V12 and delivers a viable product. I have read the license agreements (V12, End User) and there isn't any mention about a indie developers rights. How are we protected? Specifically in terms of intellectual properties and the ideas that are exchanged on these forums.
If anyone, regardless of who it is can just come to the site and go into a 'workshop' and read what another team has been brain storming and take those ideas without regard for who might of thought of it then whats the point in even having a 'workshop' or even a forum for that matter. No one will post any worth while ideas.
All you will get is a bunch of newbies to fall victim to this trap where people that are actually in the industry can have a gander at new and fresh ideas and run with them not concerned about the people who might have thought of it.
I have seen this happen before in the film business and TV and even the web. IT HAPPENS FOLKS.
I'm not saying that everyone in the industry are a bunch of hacks but there's always that bad apple. I keep seeing, 'post your ideas', 'yeah keep it up!'( I even fell into it and I apologize ) 'start listing your ideas!'. For what? Anyone that I would really like to hear from ain't saying a damn thing about their ideas.
You might as well just have a site that says buy V12 and here are some books you can buy to help you out.
Sorry, but I don't see how this can benefit indies wanting to create games. Everyone is always saying lets be innovative and lets be creative but everyone stumbles over there own feet trying to do it themselves and capitalize on whatever they can? If computer programming is an art than why do we treat the business just like the corporate obelisk that we all hate?
I'm not attacking anyone here. I'm attacking the concept in general. I think GarageGames has the potential for being great but what about the little guy?
#5
That said, I do want to say that I am sensitive to people who feel as you do Chris. I believe that your concerns do need to be addressed. Unfortunately, GG may not be the place for that. They already have an incredibly full plate and adding legal wranglings for game ideas would be unfair to them. Maybe somewhere down the line something more could be done (contracts signed by anyone who wants access to the workshops or whatever)?
04/03/2001 (1:51 pm)
Ok, let me make my position clear real quick. I fully believe in the philosophy that ideas are cheap and implementation is everything. I am currently working on a Scorched Earth knock-off and have been talking with another developer who is doing the same thing but we are taking radically different approaches to the same game idea. And I believe that my implementation is very different from all of the other SE knock-offs before me. More and more I have learned that most of the ideas I thought were original to me have occured to many other people. Also, I have had many game ideas that I will never be able to implement or never have time to implement for myself. I think that it is fine to keep a few ideas that are near and dear to you close, but we need to start sharing those ideas we will most likely never be able to use for our selves.That said, I do want to say that I am sensitive to people who feel as you do Chris. I believe that your concerns do need to be addressed. Unfortunately, GG may not be the place for that. They already have an incredibly full plate and adding legal wranglings for game ideas would be unfair to them. Maybe somewhere down the line something more could be done (contracts signed by anyone who wants access to the workshops or whatever)?
#6
Every game devs "university" or courses have workshops. imagine what would happen if they all worked as lone wolves hiding in the corners. Its damn stupidity. Then again - every industry insider can take a look at their projects and "steal their ideas".
I am a "wannabe dev" myself and cant say that i'm affraid posting ideas. YES, there are ideas which are like my dream games which i want to incarnate someday by my own and most likely i'll not post them but i have bunch of others as well and it doeasnt mena their "second rate" for me.
I see Workshop as possibility to interact with other indies, horn ones skills working on concept and laying idea out on paper.
04/04/2001 (12:02 am)
well, well, well.. I'd like to add something to my post above, folks. In my opinion Workshop is like Training Grounds for newcomers in the industry. It is most likely that not their first prject and maybe not even 2nd and 3rd will make huge publicity and/or money. GG is a perfect place for such a things as there are also pro's looking into forums and sharing their visions and opinions.Every game devs "university" or courses have workshops. imagine what would happen if they all worked as lone wolves hiding in the corners. Its damn stupidity. Then again - every industry insider can take a look at their projects and "steal their ideas".
I am a "wannabe dev" myself and cant say that i'm affraid posting ideas. YES, there are ideas which are like my dream games which i want to incarnate someday by my own and most likely i'll not post them but i have bunch of others as well and it doeasnt mena their "second rate" for me.
I see Workshop as possibility to interact with other indies, horn ones skills working on concept and laying idea out on paper.
#7
If you post, your IP is not protected. As I have stated many, many times, do not post your ideas if you are worried that somebody will steal it. Chris, it sounds like posting your ideas may not be ideal for you. For me, it isn't a huge deal since I have too many ideas to ever implement, and I would like to see somebody pick up the excess.
That said, I probably won't post my absolute best three ideas. I'm saving them for myself. But, if you are a designer and don't have at least a hundred ideas, you probably aren't doing your job. Post one of your fringe ideas that has some holes in it. Maybe interaction with the community will help flesh it out. Maybe that interaction will move that idea up your list, and it will become one of your top concepts.
GarageGames is not trying to mine newbies or indies for ideas. The last thing I need is have more ideas that I can't implement. Instead, we are trying to foster a community that can get away from creating a bunch of knock offs and look alikes.
Jeff Tunnell GG
04/04/2001 (8:25 am)
Chris:Quote:
Wouldn't it be in the best interest of GarageGames to protect the indie developers who want to develop their games with the V12 engine? Afterall, GarageGames is offering to go into business with anyone who licenses V12 and delivers a viable product. I have read the license agreements (V12, End User) and there isn't any mention about a indie developers rights. How are we protected? Specifically in terms of intellectual properties and the ideas that are exchanged on these forums.
If you post, your IP is not protected. As I have stated many, many times, do not post your ideas if you are worried that somebody will steal it. Chris, it sounds like posting your ideas may not be ideal for you. For me, it isn't a huge deal since I have too many ideas to ever implement, and I would like to see somebody pick up the excess.
That said, I probably won't post my absolute best three ideas. I'm saving them for myself. But, if you are a designer and don't have at least a hundred ideas, you probably aren't doing your job. Post one of your fringe ideas that has some holes in it. Maybe interaction with the community will help flesh it out. Maybe that interaction will move that idea up your list, and it will become one of your top concepts.
GarageGames is not trying to mine newbies or indies for ideas. The last thing I need is have more ideas that I can't implement. Instead, we are trying to foster a community that can get away from creating a bunch of knock offs and look alikes.
Jeff Tunnell GG
Torque Owner Jeff Tunnell
Jeff Tunnell GG