Realistic golf game, it is possible?
by metalion · in Torque Game Engine · 02/01/2006 (7:46 am) · 23 replies
Hi, we're planning in making a realistic golf game, we've been checking TGE capabilities and we've found some nasty numbers.
To hold a complete golf track we need a surface of one square kilometer, with that surface, and given that Torque terrain is 256 x 256 units, makes every surface unit 4x4 meters. We think this is not enough given the quality required for an accurate Golf track.
I've read that TGE can support multiple patches that can be attached, so larger terrains can be made? how can we use them? and, can we use the integrated TGE terrain editor, to edit these multiple patches?
in case we drop the idea of using the TGE terrain, another option is to make the golf tracks as large 3D models... but new questions arise: can TGE support "static shapes" as large as one square kilometer? and, will TGE handle collisions with that large mesh accurately?
Thanks in advance
To hold a complete golf track we need a surface of one square kilometer, with that surface, and given that Torque terrain is 256 x 256 units, makes every surface unit 4x4 meters. We think this is not enough given the quality required for an accurate Golf track.
I've read that TGE can support multiple patches that can be attached, so larger terrains can be made? how can we use them? and, can we use the integrated TGE terrain editor, to edit these multiple patches?
in case we drop the idea of using the TGE terrain, another option is to make the golf tracks as large 3D models... but new questions arise: can TGE support "static shapes" as large as one square kilometer? and, will TGE handle collisions with that large mesh accurately?
Thanks in advance
About the author
#2
02/01/2006 (8:25 am)
Also the default terrain size equats to 2 square km, so you've got plenty of room.
#3
I think we're going to model the golf tracks in 3dsmax, and simply disable de default TGE terrain... but in this case, I still have the question about the collision detection... is TGE able to detect collision with random polygon objects (the so called, polygon soaps)? Actually, what I would need is simply to be able to cast rays to the golf track mesh, so I could get the height and normal in the mesh at any point.
02/01/2006 (10:29 am)
Well, yes, 2 square km would be enough, but, will it have enough accuracy for the subtle details of a golf track? don't think so...I think we're going to model the golf tracks in 3dsmax, and simply disable de default TGE terrain... but in this case, I still have the question about the collision detection... is TGE able to detect collision with random polygon objects (the so called, polygon soaps)? Actually, what I would need is simply to be able to cast rays to the golf track mesh, so I could get the height and normal in the mesh at any point.
#4
02/01/2006 (10:35 am)
You may also want to remember that most golf games don't load all the holes at once. 400yrds isn't that hard for Torque to handle. Just shrink the block size (I'm not sure if you'll run into water problems with v1.4 though. You did on earlier versions).
#5
That method probably won't work for a couple reasons.
- You will have to export as a .dts file if you're coming from max.
- Unless you use maple3d.com's software which costs $500+
- If you do use maple3d's software then you have the problem of not being able to use the polygon soup method. Everything has to be convex.
- If you go with .dts files shadows won't work properly unless you modify the engine
- DTS objects have a separate rendered/collision mesh so you'll still have to make the ground using convex shapes in order to walk on it.
- the cast ray function works on the collision mesh NOT the visible mesh, which means unless your collision matches the visible polygons exactly, you won't have accuracy that you may want. That is unless you re-program the castray function to be more accurate.
02/01/2006 (10:41 am)
(It's polygon *soup*)That method probably won't work for a couple reasons.
- You will have to export as a .dts file if you're coming from max.
- Unless you use maple3d.com's software which costs $500+
- If you do use maple3d's software then you have the problem of not being able to use the polygon soup method. Everything has to be convex.
- If you go with .dts files shadows won't work properly unless you modify the engine
- DTS objects have a separate rendered/collision mesh so you'll still have to make the ground using convex shapes in order to walk on it.
- the cast ray function works on the collision mesh NOT the visible mesh, which means unless your collision matches the visible polygons exactly, you won't have accuracy that you may want. That is unless you re-program the castray function to be more accurate.
#6
02/01/2006 (10:53 am)
You could change the source to allow polygon detection versus collision meshes, but it could get quite messy for detailed levels.
#7
looking at some TGE docs, I've seen there's a collision mesh type called "LOS collision mesh", that is specific fo bullets against meshes... this really looks like a "raytrace mesh" thing... someone knows if "LOS mesh" should also be made of convex shapes?
02/02/2006 (3:43 am)
Hmm... since the only physics interaction will be only a ball against the ground mesh, I don't need a complex collision system, just a simple "get height at any given point in the mesh".looking at some TGE docs, I've seen there's a collision mesh type called "LOS collision mesh", that is specific fo bullets against meshes... this really looks like a "raytrace mesh" thing... someone knows if "LOS mesh" should also be made of convex shapes?
#8
Just curious, interesting terminology you have there.
Do they really call a golf course a golf "track" in Europe.
02/02/2006 (9:45 am)
Hey Metalion,Just curious, interesting terminology you have there.
Do they really call a golf course a golf "track" in Europe.
#9
02/02/2006 (10:25 am)
Haha, well... to tell you the truth, I have very little knowledge about golf, so I don't know if "golf track" is correct or not, I've heard some people use that term in the past, so I used it. But I agree that "golf hole" would be a more correct term...
#10
02/02/2006 (10:28 am)
Or "golf course". 
#12
02/02/2006 (5:44 pm)
LOS meshes have to be convex also. 
#13
GLB 2.2 is free. GLB 3 is only $40. You're off by $460.00!
02/02/2006 (6:29 pm)
Quote:unless you use maple3d.com's software which costs $500+
GLB 2.2 is free. GLB 3 is only $40. You're off by $460.00!
#14
02/02/2006 (6:55 pm)
GLB 4 beta is $500 for just the exporter. GLB 4 final will be $1200 I believe. 4 beta is the only one that exports UV coordinates properly. If you use 2.2 which is free then you also have to use QuArK to apply the textures and you may as well just do it in there from the start then.
#15
02/02/2006 (8:01 pm)
He is increasing the price to $1200? That is truly insane.
#16
02/02/2006 (8:52 pm)
You could try using atlas terrain in TSE, i've seen some really neat stuff done in that and it'd pretty much suit all your needs. But if you have to use TGE i'd suggest finding a way to shrink the terrain or mess around with the terrain editor.
#17
We can't use TSE because we need the project to run on low end machines.
for collision detection, I was thinking I would read the loaded geommetry of the terrain, and check the height on the polygon list... this is not very nice, but since I only need to do it one time per frame (to check the height of the terrain at the ball position) I think it's worth... now the problem is to read the geommetry from the loaded DTS... does TGE has that sort of facilities? what I need is to query the polygon list of the mesh in memory.
About the shadows... I figure there will be a way to manually tell TGE to enforce a shadow cast to the terrain...
and sorry if my questions are too n00b, I'm totally new to TGE (just began a week ago) and we need to know what can be done and what not.
02/03/2006 (1:07 am)
Well... we already decided we will make the golf courses ;) with 3dsmax, and export them to DTS... the reason is because we need the terrain to be extremely accurate.We can't use TSE because we need the project to run on low end machines.
for collision detection, I was thinking I would read the loaded geommetry of the terrain, and check the height on the polygon list... this is not very nice, but since I only need to do it one time per frame (to check the height of the terrain at the ball position) I think it's worth... now the problem is to read the geommetry from the loaded DTS... does TGE has that sort of facilities? what I need is to query the polygon list of the mesh in memory.
About the shadows... I figure there will be a way to manually tell TGE to enforce a shadow cast to the terrain...
and sorry if my questions are too n00b, I'm totally new to TGE (just began a week ago) and we need to know what can be done and what not.
#18
I know that will help with both shadows and collision, and it might even help with preformance (not sure thou).
good luck,
Lee-Orr
02/03/2006 (3:22 am)
I dont know if it is a good idea to make it all in 3ds max, you might want to make the course on a normal terrain, while having the hole, and a small area around it, in DTS.I know that will help with both shadows and collision, and it might even help with preformance (not sure thou).
good luck,
Lee-Orr
#19
dts is not going to werk for your golf course (without a serious rewrite of the engine)
If you move to poly soup collision, it will be unplayable on anything but the fastest machines, and you already mentioned you wanted to run on consumer grade hardware.
Your best bet is to build each hole in max (like you said) render it from above to create a heightmap, import that into TGE's terrain editor.. and use the TGE terrain, it is more than capable of handling something like this.
edit: Yes, As others have said 1 hole per .mis
02/03/2006 (2:54 pm)
Metalion, dts is not going to werk for your golf course (without a serious rewrite of the engine)
If you move to poly soup collision, it will be unplayable on anything but the fastest machines, and you already mentioned you wanted to run on consumer grade hardware.
Your best bet is to build each hole in max (like you said) render it from above to create a heightmap, import that into TGE's terrain editor.. and use the TGE terrain, it is more than capable of handling something like this.
edit: Yes, As others have said 1 hole per .mis
#20
02/03/2006 (3:46 pm)
I think the best idea might be to use Torque's terrain engine, but only load a section of the course at a time. That way you will get the detail that you require. After all there is no need to load the entire course at once, when you will only be using one hole at a time.
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