Survival Horror Game
by Foestar · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 01/20/2006 (6:11 pm) · 18 replies
One of the major reasons my friends and I are interested in learning coding for game design is to create games like survival horrors. Most survival horrors that are multiplayer (Resident Evil Outbreak 1 & 2) never live up to the expectations. Where as some single player ones (Resident Evil 4) would be killer and a huge hit if they were multiplayer. For example, the scene where Leon and the other guy (I forget his name) defend a house while Ashley hides and they are assaulted by the freakish zombie/parasite people. This situation was set perfectly for a multiplayer experience, where one person could have been Leon and the other player could have been the other guy. My point is, one of the games my friends and I have been wanting to do was a survival horror. Now we are a small group who design mini games in Flash MX and have some skills in other fields of scripting, but to be honest, we don't really have the money to be spending on this engine to do what we wanted to. At least not yet.
What I had in mind for a game, was a survival horror online real time based game. I was thinking of a behidn view style (like Resident Evil 4) where the player can join and basicly roam a city trying to survive its horrors. Not many sections and loading, just one big city. Now I know the idea of proccessing a highly detailed and large rendered environment would be stressfull on a system, if it doesn't meet the requirments something of this caliber would need. So it would be good to break some sections of the city down into loading multiple areas. But the game is based off of a city that is fairly huge. And the player can roam around from their randomly generated start location that is secure momentairly. Eventually players can meet up and ally to hold down a church, department store, etc. Or a player(s) can group and become a hostile intented force that will take things by force, even from other human players. This way, players are never sure who to trust and the background on certain people (EX:A player called George who is with a current group was a betrayer to a previous group and got everyone killed. No one in the group at the moment knows.)
There could also be a virus bar. Now unlike some games where you just die or may even become a zombie for a few moments, the player is effected speed and life wise in the game by the % of his virus meter. When it is full, the player will no longer be himself. This could lead in two directions in our game idea.
1.) Actually add in the ability for a undead player to mutate to a extent in time or after gaining enough of one resource.
2.) The player gets a window saying that they have died, and click here to return to the main window with a countdown timer at 30 seconds. This way the player can't stay in the game longer than he/she should, allowing others to join the fun. When the player leaves, his model will become just another creature of the game.
Now I know this idea would require alot of time and effort, but its something me and my friends would happily donate time too. What I would like to know are two things.
1.) What do you think about this game on a scale of 1 - 10? Side comments can be included.
2.) Is the Torque engine capable of such a game design?
What I had in mind for a game, was a survival horror online real time based game. I was thinking of a behidn view style (like Resident Evil 4) where the player can join and basicly roam a city trying to survive its horrors. Not many sections and loading, just one big city. Now I know the idea of proccessing a highly detailed and large rendered environment would be stressfull on a system, if it doesn't meet the requirments something of this caliber would need. So it would be good to break some sections of the city down into loading multiple areas. But the game is based off of a city that is fairly huge. And the player can roam around from their randomly generated start location that is secure momentairly. Eventually players can meet up and ally to hold down a church, department store, etc. Or a player(s) can group and become a hostile intented force that will take things by force, even from other human players. This way, players are never sure who to trust and the background on certain people (EX:A player called George who is with a current group was a betrayer to a previous group and got everyone killed. No one in the group at the moment knows.)
There could also be a virus bar. Now unlike some games where you just die or may even become a zombie for a few moments, the player is effected speed and life wise in the game by the % of his virus meter. When it is full, the player will no longer be himself. This could lead in two directions in our game idea.
1.) Actually add in the ability for a undead player to mutate to a extent in time or after gaining enough of one resource.
2.) The player gets a window saying that they have died, and click here to return to the main window with a countdown timer at 30 seconds. This way the player can't stay in the game longer than he/she should, allowing others to join the fun. When the player leaves, his model will become just another creature of the game.
Now I know this idea would require alot of time and effort, but its something me and my friends would happily donate time too. What I would like to know are two things.
1.) What do you think about this game on a scale of 1 - 10? Side comments can be included.
2.) Is the Torque engine capable of such a game design?
#2
But on the other hand, you have games like Fatal Frame, that are so hard to control, you spend most of your time afraid that you won't be able to control the camera turning again. But that was a really scary game.
I think for survival horror to work in multiplayer, you need to be able to separate your players from each other to enhance the idea that even though there's safety in numbers, they are really still at the mercy of whatever force is controlling your threat.
But aside from my ramblings, that sounds like a good game, I would gladly play it. I really like the idea of strategy in any game, so if you can team up against evil forces, that would be good. Some other things you might consider are a day/night system where you can move fairly freely during the day and scavenge for things that would be useful to your base of operations, while at night, you run a much greater risk of being killed because of increased enemy activity. Or, if you've seen the Silent Hill movie (I won't spoil it if you haven't, go see it NOW), you could have something somewhat like that. I don't mean copying it directly, but cyclical somehow.
AND, if you wanted to really throw things into chaos, you could make various groups of people competing for resources, so they would have to evade/go up against other humans as well. And if they wanted to, people could voluntarily spawn initially as one of the bad guys, kind of a "boss" among the horde of NPCs. But that's heading into way MMO implementation, and very hard to put limitations on. It will likely not be made unless by you and/or your team, and if you do, I will applaud you. Until then, I will continue to hate MMO games.
04/26/2006 (9:05 pm)
I think the reason that multiplayer survival horror isn't done up to expectations is because, if you notice, single player ones really aren't done that well either. For example, playing RE4 felt too much like playing a shooter sometimes, rather than a game focused on fear. But then again, I haven't really been gripped by any REs since number 2, I just lose so much interest with the scientific nonsense, give me supernatural any day.But on the other hand, you have games like Fatal Frame, that are so hard to control, you spend most of your time afraid that you won't be able to control the camera turning again. But that was a really scary game.
I think for survival horror to work in multiplayer, you need to be able to separate your players from each other to enhance the idea that even though there's safety in numbers, they are really still at the mercy of whatever force is controlling your threat.
But aside from my ramblings, that sounds like a good game, I would gladly play it. I really like the idea of strategy in any game, so if you can team up against evil forces, that would be good. Some other things you might consider are a day/night system where you can move fairly freely during the day and scavenge for things that would be useful to your base of operations, while at night, you run a much greater risk of being killed because of increased enemy activity. Or, if you've seen the Silent Hill movie (I won't spoil it if you haven't, go see it NOW), you could have something somewhat like that. I don't mean copying it directly, but cyclical somehow.
AND, if you wanted to really throw things into chaos, you could make various groups of people competing for resources, so they would have to evade/go up against other humans as well. And if they wanted to, people could voluntarily spawn initially as one of the bad guys, kind of a "boss" among the horde of NPCs. But that's heading into way MMO implementation, and very hard to put limitations on. It will likely not be made unless by you and/or your team, and if you do, I will applaud you. Until then, I will continue to hate MMO games.
#3
04/26/2006 (9:09 pm)
I dont know if you knew this, but RE:4 was a huge hit...especially since it was on the Gamecube initially.
#4
I remember there was one city district that a group of humans had claimed as their own and they were set on killing anyone from the outside, be they human or zombie, if they set foot in it. It lead to some really interesting RP. It may not look like much but it's a good game in terms of design and worth checking out.
04/26/2006 (9:51 pm)
Have you played Urban Dead? It's very low-tech (no real graphics) but it's a fun MMO survival horror experience where players can become zombies and go back to being human again. It has a huge number of people playing it and the gameplay has morphed nicely in response to the sometimes overwhelming strategies that groups of players have devised.I remember there was one city district that a group of humans had claimed as their own and they were set on killing anyone from the outside, be they human or zombie, if they set foot in it. It lead to some really interesting RP. It may not look like much but it's a good game in terms of design and worth checking out.
#5
04/26/2006 (11:38 pm)
There have been games made like this, just not commercially. The old HL1 mods Brain Bread and Zombie Panic come to mind, as well as some in development for HL2, and a cool one pending a big upgraded release for UT2k4 called Killing Floor. So yes... multiplayer zombie shootery games are awesome. And RE4 isn't scary, because you're not some gimp that has no control over their movement or aim. It is however, a great deal of fun. And a multiplayer survival horror game, should probably focus on the actiony kitschy zombieness, as opposed to be genuinely scary. 
#6
@Foestar - sorry for hijacking your thread :)
04/27/2006 (12:15 am)
How do you regen more action points in Urban Dead? I lasted about 2 mins and now have to login in 30mins because I ran out. That game has some promise. @Foestar - sorry for hijacking your thread :)
#7
04/27/2006 (7:30 am)
Andy, that's part of the fun. You learn to plan your moves so you don't get caught outside. So for now, you just have to wait... and hope you don't get eaten. :) 
#8
I would like to see such a game to see if it is much different than what is out there since I'm a Survival Horror junkie.
But the question about whether Torque is up to a design isn't the right question. It should be "is my team, regardless of engine, up to creating a game of this caliber?" This design could be done in a number of engines as long as you have a competant team.
As for doing it in TGE, you would want to split up the city in chunks, fog the view-distance ala Silent Hill depending on the detail of your areas (and obscuring is often a good tactic for horror games).
You will need to determine the type of game. Is it action-oriented/puzzle light as with Hunter, Suffering, Dino Crisis or RE? Is it more puzzle-heavy as with Silent Hill, Deep Fear, Eternal Darkness, Kuon, etc--which were not that puzzle heavy but more so than some? Is it more oriented towards weakness and hiding or niche gameplay Fatal Frame, Clock Tower Haunting Ground?
04/27/2006 (8:08 am)
I don't see much of a difference between a multiplayer sequence in RE4 and the linear mission sequences in RE:O aside from camera angle. Both are closed-sequences with bounded requirements. You just do not have to cooperate with others to do things in RE4. You simply have to stay alive and keep them alive. RE:0 is similar in that respect.I would like to see such a game to see if it is much different than what is out there since I'm a Survival Horror junkie.
But the question about whether Torque is up to a design isn't the right question. It should be "is my team, regardless of engine, up to creating a game of this caliber?" This design could be done in a number of engines as long as you have a competant team.
As for doing it in TGE, you would want to split up the city in chunks, fog the view-distance ala Silent Hill depending on the detail of your areas (and obscuring is often a good tactic for horror games).
You will need to determine the type of game. Is it action-oriented/puzzle light as with Hunter, Suffering, Dino Crisis or RE? Is it more puzzle-heavy as with Silent Hill, Deep Fear, Eternal Darkness, Kuon, etc--which were not that puzzle heavy but more so than some? Is it more oriented towards weakness and hiding or niche gameplay Fatal Frame, Clock Tower Haunting Ground?
#9
I've put some thought into a multiplayer survival horror game, and I'm thinking that a Phantasy Star Online like structure would be more manageable - enter into the game world in small teams to complete a goal. Simply dumping a player into an infested city would have balance issues - the game needs to challenge both isolated newbies and heavily armed veterans in packs without overwhelming either.
04/27/2006 (12:22 pm)
I think a large part of the scariness potential of games comes from scripted sequences, which would be impractical to use with the suggested MMO.I've put some thought into a multiplayer survival horror game, and I'm thinking that a Phantasy Star Online like structure would be more manageable - enter into the game world in small teams to complete a goal. Simply dumping a player into an infested city would have balance issues - the game needs to challenge both isolated newbies and heavily armed veterans in packs without overwhelming either.
#10
04/27/2006 (1:06 pm)
It is not just in terms of scripted vs. unscripted sequences, but in the building of tension through a variety of techniques which are currently unviable in a MMO situation--at least as MMO's stand today. In a linear narrative, you can build tension. Even in a game like RE:O, which is a linear mission narrative, the developers can build tension. In a MMO situation, there is rarely any semblance of a build simply because everyone can "build" tension at a different rate. A horde of enemies doesn't necessarily equal tension. Neither does a huge city. ombining a huge city with limited ammo (or no ammo so that you have to determine other ways to get around/away from them, like in the hotel escape in Dark Corners of the Earth) and hordes of enemies can create some tension, but usually not.
#11
I think most online/offline survival horror based games focus on the same general idea. As Gareth said "give me supernatural any day". I think a online game like this needs more than just the old school zombies with the same undead sounds. Sure having a mass group of zombies is cool too, but I think really spooky super natural things would be good to include too. Heck, I even think some things should be undefeatable. After all, how are you going to kill the ghost of some crazy lady.
So a large city, with people joining and trying to survive. Its all free movement, so go where you want and find resources to help you (baseball bat, pipe, gun, first aid kits, etc.).
Characters can run around and hold off places, as well as group with other people. This leads into the guild/organization design where multiple people can group together and become a gang so to speak and raid other people, or act as a sort of "Umbrella" organization.
I also was debating on when a person dies that character is dead for good. But they can turn into a monster and if they live long enough feeding off people or their fear become something worse. or they can just make a new character.
These were some of the ideas that everything I have read, done have lead too. So any ideas or thought on the current layout would be great and thanks for the already current posts. They have helped me change things in my ideas.
@Gareth Hewes
Im gonna go see Silent HIll tonight (I hope)
04/27/2006 (2:49 pm)
I think most online survival horror games also lack one other thing: Freedom. I like the idea of shooting things up like in RE4 as Gareth Hewes said. But I also like the idea of having so many massive ammounts of enemies coming at you that shooting things up wont always work (not to mention ammo). Heres a quick layout of what I have planned so far.I think most online/offline survival horror based games focus on the same general idea. As Gareth said "give me supernatural any day". I think a online game like this needs more than just the old school zombies with the same undead sounds. Sure having a mass group of zombies is cool too, but I think really spooky super natural things would be good to include too. Heck, I even think some things should be undefeatable. After all, how are you going to kill the ghost of some crazy lady.
So a large city, with people joining and trying to survive. Its all free movement, so go where you want and find resources to help you (baseball bat, pipe, gun, first aid kits, etc.).
Characters can run around and hold off places, as well as group with other people. This leads into the guild/organization design where multiple people can group together and become a gang so to speak and raid other people, or act as a sort of "Umbrella" organization.
I also was debating on when a person dies that character is dead for good. But they can turn into a monster and if they live long enough feeding off people or their fear become something worse. or they can just make a new character.
These were some of the ideas that everything I have read, done have lead too. So any ideas or thought on the current layout would be great and thanks for the already current posts. They have helped me change things in my ideas.
@Gareth Hewes
Im gonna go see Silent HIll tonight (I hope)
#12
What would be awesome is if torque could support loading objects in the background without bogging down the client. Does torque already do this?
04/27/2006 (3:32 pm)
While having a character die for good makes you really, really think twice about making dumb moves, it would be frustrating to have to "start over" when you are killed. I do feel you should be punished in some way for dieing, i don't think it should be "Dead for good" With some creative loading/unloading, i wouldn't see an issue with having a huge city to deal with, as long as the client doesn't have to process what's happening on the other side of the city. What would be awesome is if torque could support loading objects in the background without bogging down the client. Does torque already do this?
#13
I actually feel that that lack of freedom is one of the things which allows tension to build in SH games. The problem with lack of freedom is replayability. Once you know the way through Outbreak, you don't have to think and the game becomes boring, even when helping out new players or trying to unlock uber-thingy-x. Now, one could make an action game with horror overtones. It doesn't mean that it will be "scary" or "intense" or invoke fear on much any level except "I hope my character doesn't die so I have to go back to the character creation screen or deal with a zombie-esque character that moves slowly and awkwardly." The town of Silent Hill was large and awarded some semblance of freedom. The narrative, however, was linear.
I like the thought of "unbeatable enemies". Nemesis in 3 (especially that he could follow you) and Pyramid Head were fun in that respect. I'm not quite sure how you would layer them realistically in a MMO, though. Especially if you have people who accidentally wander into other people's quests, decide to help out, and end up dying. It seems like frustration waiting to happen until they knew. And then they just wouldn't want to help out. Kind of like Battlefield 1942. Everyone needs a medic but no one wants to play one.
Keep the ideas stewing, though. I think I'm not quite sure the direction you're approaching it from.
Enjoy the movie. See a matinee. It's cheaper, and while it is one of the better videogame-to-film translations I've seen (especially since the connections in the first half of the movie seemed to be "cool creepy environment; how do we get her there...er, clues!" which is remeniscent of my own "what the hell just happened" after completing all the endings in the first game). The second half picked up a narrative track and took it to completion, which was fun. At least I thought so. But it wasn't scary. Gory and creepy and entertaining, yes. I saw it at full price and enjoyed it, but I don't know if I could recommend others to see it at full price.
04/27/2006 (3:33 pm)
The thing to avoid, and I find this with 99.9% of all MMO's regardless of skin, is simply changing the skin of the game to make it a "horror" game. Anarchy Online, regardless of "wow-zowie" features that may have been added, felt like Everquest with a sci-fi skin. SWG seemed similar, but with a far-future, Star Wars skin. There were, of course, many gameplay particulars that shifted, but for the most part, they felt like every other MMORPG out there.I actually feel that that lack of freedom is one of the things which allows tension to build in SH games. The problem with lack of freedom is replayability. Once you know the way through Outbreak, you don't have to think and the game becomes boring, even when helping out new players or trying to unlock uber-thingy-x. Now, one could make an action game with horror overtones. It doesn't mean that it will be "scary" or "intense" or invoke fear on much any level except "I hope my character doesn't die so I have to go back to the character creation screen or deal with a zombie-esque character that moves slowly and awkwardly." The town of Silent Hill was large and awarded some semblance of freedom. The narrative, however, was linear.
I like the thought of "unbeatable enemies". Nemesis in 3 (especially that he could follow you) and Pyramid Head were fun in that respect. I'm not quite sure how you would layer them realistically in a MMO, though. Especially if you have people who accidentally wander into other people's quests, decide to help out, and end up dying. It seems like frustration waiting to happen until they knew. And then they just wouldn't want to help out. Kind of like Battlefield 1942. Everyone needs a medic but no one wants to play one.
Keep the ideas stewing, though. I think I'm not quite sure the direction you're approaching it from.
Enjoy the movie. See a matinee. It's cheaper, and while it is one of the better videogame-to-film translations I've seen (especially since the connections in the first half of the movie seemed to be "cool creepy environment; how do we get her there...er, clues!" which is remeniscent of my own "what the hell just happened" after completing all the endings in the first game). The second half picked up a narrative track and took it to completion, which was fun. At least I thought so. But it wasn't scary. Gory and creepy and entertaining, yes. I saw it at full price and enjoyed it, but I don't know if I could recommend others to see it at full price.
#14
04/27/2006 (4:10 pm)
For unbeatable enemies it's pretty simple. Make sure players know that the enemy is unbeatable somehow..... and force them to run like the would in real life.
#15
Oh, and you have to include references to Attack of the Killer Tomatos too. A sabre at the very least.
04/27/2006 (4:42 pm)
Quote:This leads into the guild/organization design where multiple people can group together and become a gang so to speakPerhaps if newbies spawned into (volunteer) clans rather than on their own it'd be safer for them without making life too simple for experienced clans.
Oh, and you have to include references to Attack of the Killer Tomatos too. A sabre at the very least.
#16
04/27/2006 (5:26 pm)
I think it'd be pretty cool, if you could take over stores or something, and start storing weapons/ammo/items and what not for your "gang" Also, it'd be great if other humans could storm the place kill the humans and collect all the goodies for themselves. In a survival situation, that'd be a must. It's everyone against everyone really.
#17
04/28/2006 (6:19 pm)
Quote:So a large city, with people joining and trying to survive. Its all free movement, so go where you want and find resources to help you (baseball bat, pipe, gun, first aid kits, etc.).All of this can and does happen in Urban Dead.
Characters can run around and hold off places, as well as group with other people. This leads into the guild/organization design where multiple people can group together and become a gang so to speak and raid other people, or act as a sort of "Umbrella" organization.
#18
I emailed u , They dont see your vision but i do
07/27/2006 (12:45 pm)
Foestar I'd love to help you I emailed u , They dont see your vision but i do
Torque Owner Dracola