is a 3d modeling contest a good idea?
by Jeff Highsmith · in General Discussion · 03/03/2002 (10:46 pm) · 32 replies
i was thinking if the gg guys agreed, id like to sponsor an URGE 3d Modeling Contest with multiple categories. first place could get you a copy of torque, or cash, or both :). the entries would become property of the URGE to use in its future release in exchange for royalties to the artist. its ultimately to get some good content for my game, but it gets the community modelers/ skinners/animators some pimpage and gives gg some buzz too. i could advertise at polycount, 3dcafe, maxforums, planettribes, etc. to bring in some of the rest of the mod community.
i was thinking of the following categories
human male
human female
goblin male
then for spice, maybe
dragon
giant spider
horse/unicorn/pegasus
i dunno gotta give the categories some thought. or if theres enough interest, i could put up a poll that the artists, gg fans, whoever can use to vote for the categories they like.
in any event, once the categories are finalized, ill post some concept art to guide the projects (not as strict requirements, just for inspiration and the flavor of the world). the submission deadline would need be no sooner than 3-4 months (wont have the cash till then :).
does this sound like something you guys would want to do?
i was thinking of the following categories
human male
human female
goblin male
then for spice, maybe
dragon
giant spider
horse/unicorn/pegasus
i dunno gotta give the categories some thought. or if theres enough interest, i could put up a poll that the artists, gg fans, whoever can use to vote for the categories they like.
in any event, once the categories are finalized, ill post some concept art to guide the projects (not as strict requirements, just for inspiration and the flavor of the world). the submission deadline would need be no sooner than 3-4 months (wont have the cash till then :).
does this sound like something you guys would want to do?
About the author
#22
The complaint was that "contests" like this (I'm not saying this is what it is, it just seems like it is similar to some scams I've heard of) can be used to collect good-quality stuff without paying the creator.
This scam usually occurs with companies and kids, where the kids enter the contest by drawing a picture or something and then one person wins. The company then reserves the right to still use the loser's stuff, but not give them anything.
From your original post, that's what I thought you were doing but it seems that has changed (or was just very confusing) So if you can't understand why GG wouldn't want to support something that could easily become a scam, then I don't know what to say to you.
03/04/2002 (5:58 pm)
Hehe, this wouldn't upstage anything...The complaint was that "contests" like this (I'm not saying this is what it is, it just seems like it is similar to some scams I've heard of) can be used to collect good-quality stuff without paying the creator.
This scam usually occurs with companies and kids, where the kids enter the contest by drawing a picture or something and then one person wins. The company then reserves the right to still use the loser's stuff, but not give them anything.
From your original post, that's what I thought you were doing but it seems that has changed (or was just very confusing) So if you can't understand why GG wouldn't want to support something that could easily become a scam, then I don't know what to say to you.
#23
03/04/2002 (6:08 pm)
*sigh* what everyone seems to be missing is that they have INPUT as to what the contest ends up being. thats why i posted this to a FORUM in the first place, to get feedback. so if something i PROPOSE seems off, id like to hear alternate ideas. as for gg's point of view, who knows? we can all just speculate, but unless its from the horses mouth, what's the point? i look at the polycount reviews and think wow, theyre really harsh, with sound, animation etc coming into play heavily. and these guys make these models for free, so the community has a cool character and the artist gets some prestige. i propose to tap that talent and pay prizes to the winner, and im a scam artist? so what if the model you made for fun ends up in a demo - wait thats actually a good thing! and yes i wanted to be able to use any entries i liked for the demo, regardless of whether they won or not.
#24
first: concept art... not exactly becouse that would be giving too much away.... but maybe some pictures/art of the game in question? like say I sign up you give me this:
1.Human
2.Male
3.2 art works showing the basic "Locale" of where this human might be during his travels.
4.4500 poly limit (random ##)
And (DUH!) the usual.. must be skinned, must not show any "private" part's etc...
03/04/2002 (6:09 pm)
I personally (as a newbie modeller/animation guy) would love to do this competition.. for 1 sole reason Torque. i dont have a job as of right now and i REALLY want Torque, and this would be a good way to get some brownie points with some companies (maybe). BUT i too have a few ideas.... first: concept art... not exactly becouse that would be giving too much away.... but maybe some pictures/art of the game in question? like say I sign up you give me this:
1.Human
2.Male
3.2 art works showing the basic "Locale" of where this human might be during his travels.
4.4500 poly limit (random ##)
And (DUH!) the usual.. must be skinned, must not show any "private" part's etc...
#25
03/04/2002 (6:21 pm)
Mr Wever, glad to hear someone likes it :) and didn't accuse me of a crime :). seriously though, i like the idea about including game locales in the concept art. one of my sticking points is there must be a flavor target for the entries. im thinking everyones favorite slighty-dark medieval fantasy. really just the dark ages we all think of and saw in monty python :)i know its been done to death, but the URGE is a universal rpg that must be somewhat generic to allow the clients to add their visions to it.
#26
03/05/2002 (12:36 pm)
See, there is where I disagree. It should be completely generic, so that ALL artists will want to artists, not just those who dont mind the topic/style. We want teh largest possible turnout, and I think a geneeric contest would give us that.
#27
03/05/2002 (2:01 pm)
*Raises the white flag, salutes, then in exaggerated rolling British accent* "You have won sir! I surrender!"
#28
I would suggest categories more along the lines of main character and supporting cast. Give the artists a short breakdown of what you think the character should be like and have them go to town on it. Advertise as a breaking into the industry contest, were the contestents go through the steps of building a player model for a specific game. This type of thing would look great in a portfolio for an artist, even more so then just having produced a really cool model, since they had to work from realistic limitations.
This way you'll get something specific to your needs and the artist would get a good portfolio piece. I'd love to participate in a contest like this.
In terms of prizes, I don't know how interested artists would be in getting a copy of torque. You don't need it at all to produce models for it, you just need the exporter for 3ds max or milkshape. Vid cards are always a popular choice for prizes. But don't through away the fact that their model is being put into a working game. That's a pretty cool prize too.
Although too late now I think it would have been cool if GG had've had a contest to produce the model for the demo. Ah, well...the model they have is pretty sweet anyway.
Alc
03/05/2002 (5:31 pm)
I think that your contest idea is a good one. Since your contest is for your specific game I would suggest making the rules very specific to your cause. I think you'll find more creative ideas come out of something that is more limited, or at least be more surprised by what is created. A good artist will be able to work within almost any restrictions and still pull off something cool and unique.I would suggest categories more along the lines of main character and supporting cast. Give the artists a short breakdown of what you think the character should be like and have them go to town on it. Advertise as a breaking into the industry contest, were the contestents go through the steps of building a player model for a specific game. This type of thing would look great in a portfolio for an artist, even more so then just having produced a really cool model, since they had to work from realistic limitations.
This way you'll get something specific to your needs and the artist would get a good portfolio piece. I'd love to participate in a contest like this.
In terms of prizes, I don't know how interested artists would be in getting a copy of torque. You don't need it at all to produce models for it, you just need the exporter for 3ds max or milkshape. Vid cards are always a popular choice for prizes. But don't through away the fact that their model is being put into a working game. That's a pretty cool prize too.
Although too late now I think it would have been cool if GG had've had a contest to produce the model for the demo. Ah, well...the model they have is pretty sweet anyway.
Alc
#29
edit/
*loud applause for Gregs assertions about artists*
i heartily agree that artists are people who work within constraints on almost all their projects. i think laypeople would be surprised at what it takes to make it in the traditional profession of art (ie non-computer). its more hard work than raw talent (and it helps who you know too). if you dont meet deadlines and requirements, youre toast.
03/05/2002 (5:51 pm)
I'm glad to hear another vote of support, thanks Greg, er, mr Findlay. oh btw, the white flag wasn't in reference to the contest, just the particular points being argued :). maybe people are onto something with the whole 'modelers dont need torque' thing. i was just thinking broadly in terms of modders i guess.edit/
*loud applause for Gregs assertions about artists*
i heartily agree that artists are people who work within constraints on almost all their projects. i think laypeople would be surprised at what it takes to make it in the traditional profession of art (ie non-computer). its more hard work than raw talent (and it helps who you know too). if you dont meet deadlines and requirements, youre toast.
#30
03/05/2002 (5:58 pm)
that demo model is super sweet
#31
Having a bunch of artists model the same thing based on a concept drawing would not be all that fun (too much like work) and it might limit the number of entries. A description of what you want is better, as it leaves a lot to the artist to interperet the description.
The cg-channel:
www.cgchannel.com/ has the WIP challenge, which has all the artists build their interperetation of a description of a model. Some very cool stuff has been produced, with many unique and interesting designs.
A good artist should be able to be make something cool given very specific restriction (as Greg suggests) but it is not as much fun to do this.
Having the model be Torque ready will limit the field to a very small number of people. This alone would limit entries.
I suppose that one of the prizes could be that the 'winner' gets his or her shape set up to work with the Torque.
Lastly, if it is geared around your specific game, I am not liking the idea. It sounds like it could be a scam, and although this may not be your intention, you have to be aware that this may be ther perception of many who hear about this contest. If this is their first experience with GarageGames, it may turn them off.
This would not be good for the community.
A more general contest would be something I would be interested in seeing (and possibly helping out with). I agree with Josh on all the issues he has put forth. The more generic the better.
For it to work, it needs to be about the artist producing the work, not your title.
I know there are some people lurking here that are some pretty heavy hitters, and we want to get those people out of the woodwork and making cool stuff to inspire and move the community as whole forward, and not just one particular title.
As a final suggestion, it would be cool to have several skill levels, (beginner, intermediate, advanced) so that more people enter.
So that's my two cents, take it for what it is worth...
Joe
03/05/2002 (11:03 pm)
Just a few comments,Having a bunch of artists model the same thing based on a concept drawing would not be all that fun (too much like work) and it might limit the number of entries. A description of what you want is better, as it leaves a lot to the artist to interperet the description.
The cg-channel:
www.cgchannel.com/ has the WIP challenge, which has all the artists build their interperetation of a description of a model. Some very cool stuff has been produced, with many unique and interesting designs.
A good artist should be able to be make something cool given very specific restriction (as Greg suggests) but it is not as much fun to do this.
Having the model be Torque ready will limit the field to a very small number of people. This alone would limit entries.
I suppose that one of the prizes could be that the 'winner' gets his or her shape set up to work with the Torque.
Lastly, if it is geared around your specific game, I am not liking the idea. It sounds like it could be a scam, and although this may not be your intention, you have to be aware that this may be ther perception of many who hear about this contest. If this is their first experience with GarageGames, it may turn them off.
This would not be good for the community.
A more general contest would be something I would be interested in seeing (and possibly helping out with). I agree with Josh on all the issues he has put forth. The more generic the better.
For it to work, it needs to be about the artist producing the work, not your title.
I know there are some people lurking here that are some pretty heavy hitters, and we want to get those people out of the woodwork and making cool stuff to inspire and move the community as whole forward, and not just one particular title.
As a final suggestion, it would be cool to have several skill levels, (beginner, intermediate, advanced) so that more people enter.
So that's my two cents, take it for what it is worth...
Joe
#32
as always im open to suggestions, including ones about how to mitigate the above soul's perceptions, as he seems a timid, rather paranoid fellow. for instance, maybe 1-3 place in each category gets a prize and onto the demo disk, and the rest can still be on the disk if they qualify and they want to (although why they would want to be victimized in such a way is beyond me:)).
now, since ive come up with a pretty solid idea of what my demo will include, the categories are going to be different than i thought. the demo will be a 3d fighting game, so instead of human, monster, etc., ill need something more along the lines of characters for a 3d fighting game, all with a medieval fantasy twist.
later
03/06/2002 (10:02 am)
Hi Joe, thanks for the straightforward advice. let me clear up something for some people. having a model contest where the sponsoring Company reserves the right to use the entries in a game is not a scam. a scam to me is a scam you can call a scam in court, like a shell game or something. and i dont really care if some delusional soul (who hasn't posted yet, mind you - he seems to be some elusive 'other guy) is turned off to GG because of some irrational view. if gg doesnt want to sponsor it, thats their decision, and im not mad. if mr A wants to participate, wonderful. if mr B doesnt thats too bad, but why cry over spilt milk? as always im open to suggestions, including ones about how to mitigate the above soul's perceptions, as he seems a timid, rather paranoid fellow. for instance, maybe 1-3 place in each category gets a prize and onto the demo disk, and the rest can still be on the disk if they qualify and they want to (although why they would want to be victimized in such a way is beyond me:)).
now, since ive come up with a pretty solid idea of what my demo will include, the categories are going to be different than i thought. the demo will be a 3d fighting game, so instead of human, monster, etc., ill need something more along the lines of characters for a 3d fighting game, all with a medieval fantasy twist.
later
Torque Owner Jeff Highsmith
oh, delayed reaction, but Mr Tunnel, im confused. in your last post you stated " Our (gg) position was made clear in my post above."
by position I assume you mean "I don't think GG wants to sponsor a contest in which the content ecomes somebody else's property." isnt this an untenable position in light of my statements since your first post? im not trying to be argumentative, just accurate. id like to know why gg would be unwilling to allow the contest. if its because of your upcoming CGDC announcements, and the whole 'upstaging effect', i understand. a little strange maybe, but understandable.