$$$ for Animations (default player)
by Ace · in Artist Corner · 03/02/2002 (6:26 pm) · 15 replies
hey, ineed the default player to have a couple animations added to it
melee swing
melee jab
iwant the player.max 3.1 and dts both with animations included (basicly so i can have something to go by) , i dont have the multi res plugin so i dont want it done with it.
or if you could do player.max and it dts of a mideval style charactor (male and female) i would be interested in pay for them also .
or if you want to be part of my team we could do that also
one more thing whats the going rate for buying player models?
thanks
email me
or post reply
my web site
melee swing
melee jab
iwant the player.max 3.1 and dts both with animations included (basicly so i can have something to go by) , i dont have the multi res plugin so i dont want it done with it.
or if you could do player.max and it dts of a mideval style charactor (male and female) i would be interested in pay for them also .
or if you want to be part of my team we could do that also
one more thing whats the going rate for buying player models?
thanks
email me
or post reply
my web site
About the author
Ace Owner of NoESCape.sytes.net starting from the beginning on 3d torque
#2
a basic mideval type setting where your world is disrupted by tear in time and a force of "baddies" invade to overtake your world to expand there own, there is NoEScape,,,,untill,,,
Your quests lead you to a way to portal into the future where you will have quests to find more advanced weapons/items and a way fix the tear and the way back to your time to rid the world of the intruders.
i have a friend that is an awesome modler with max31 but havent heard from him in like a mounth and really need theese melee animations cuz i want to release the deathmatch part of the game on planetquake to entise moders to get involved with tge,,,it should promote a lot of help in all areas of development of tge ,,,as i have already released 15 versions of my q3 mod with over 10000 downloads .
03/02/2002 (7:43 pm)
well im a single player fanatic and am work on NoESCape into the Future's Past,a basic mideval type setting where your world is disrupted by tear in time and a force of "baddies" invade to overtake your world to expand there own, there is NoEScape,,,,untill,,,
Your quests lead you to a way to portal into the future where you will have quests to find more advanced weapons/items and a way fix the tear and the way back to your time to rid the world of the intruders.
i have a friend that is an awesome modler with max31 but havent heard from him in like a mounth and really need theese melee animations cuz i want to release the deathmatch part of the game on planetquake to entise moders to get involved with tge,,,it should promote a lot of help in all areas of development of tge ,,,as i have already released 15 versions of my q3 mod with over 10000 downloads .
#3
Too bad no animators have picked up on this thread... :/ Please tell me if you ever find one, and where, and I will do the same for you.
03/03/2002 (6:17 am)
I also would like to release a demo, and again, the only thing I am missing is animations! Wow, we have so much in common. :)Too bad no animators have picked up on this thread... :/ Please tell me if you ever find one, and where, and I will do the same for you.
#4
Currently I have over some 50+ models (monsters, npcs, player characters, ect.) for my mmorpg "Age of Darkness"
If your looking for free handouts though I dont have any. I've had to create or buy every model in the game do to lack of good quality free models on the web.
Anyways just wanted to give everyone a going rate for models. 25 to 50 is actualy cheap depending on how good the quality is of the model.
03/03/2002 (6:39 am)
Going rate for animated Models around $25 to $50 per model. Depending on if they are textured and all that good stuff.Currently I have over some 50+ models (monsters, npcs, player characters, ect.) for my mmorpg "Age of Darkness"
If your looking for free handouts though I dont have any. I've had to create or buy every model in the game do to lack of good quality free models on the web.
Anyways just wanted to give everyone a going rate for models. 25 to 50 is actualy cheap depending on how good the quality is of the model.
#5
03/03/2002 (7:35 am)
In reference to your first sentence: Why are animations measured per model? Or did you mistype that? What exactly did you mean?
#6
i thought of looking elsewhere for modelers but then it would be the long process of the modelr learning all of the torque exporting stuff, so i thought this would be the best place to look, i begining to think there isnt enough experienced modelers to handel what i ask ,,,yet,,,or the ones that could have there hands full on other stuff,,,at any rate is a good reason to get the modding community going,,,just look ant the polycount pages and all the modlers doing that stuff for free for mods,,,,well ill go see if i can stir some intrest there.
03/03/2002 (8:15 am)
im not looking for handouts, i have money to pay for models done right. 50$ per model sounds fare to me :)i thought of looking elsewhere for modelers but then it would be the long process of the modelr learning all of the torque exporting stuff, so i thought this would be the best place to look, i begining to think there isnt enough experienced modelers to handel what i ask ,,,yet,,,or the ones that could have there hands full on other stuff,,,at any rate is a good reason to get the modding community going,,,just look ant the polycount pages and all the modlers doing that stuff for free for mods,,,,well ill go see if i can stir some intrest there.
#7
Please don't underestimate the skill or the time required to do this.
I suspect that this is why there are not many animators jumping at this proposition.
Getting a character into the game is (for now) still a time consuming process. If you can convince someone to do a complete model with animations for $50, more power to you.
If a hobbiest wants to do it for next to nothing, and they are giving you what you want, then by all mean use them.
If this is the path you want to go, then it would be better to entice them with the game you are making and get them invloved 'for the fun of it' then to offer what amounts to $1/hr.
In the short term, it may get you what you want, but if you think long term, and want to attract professionals (or semi-pros) to the site and into the indie game market, then the numbers might have to be adjusted upwards a little. Talk like will scare pros (or those ready to go pro) away very quickly.
Don't get me wrong. I want the indie game community to succeed, and I hope you can get what you need (for free if you can).
When I first started frequenting the site, I was hoping that I could make enough contracting to possibly work full time for the indie community and make a meager living doing it. I think the indie commuinity is a good thing, and I think it is the future of gaming.
Sadly, I can't afford to work for those rates and not go broke really quickly. Many of my friends are also dissappointed that they can not make a reasonable income doing indie games.
All that being said...
I know that I am far too busy to consider doing anything in the price range that has been presented here.
If everyone wants to chip in to get some new animations done, contact me and I will let you know my teams contract work rates. If everyone were to pool their money, it might make sense for me and my crew to make a player or two and a whole set of animations for them.
Joe
03/03/2002 (9:40 am)
I don't mean to offend anybody, but paying $50 for a model done right would be a handout and it is ripping off the artist producing the work.Please don't underestimate the skill or the time required to do this.
I suspect that this is why there are not many animators jumping at this proposition.
Getting a character into the game is (for now) still a time consuming process. If you can convince someone to do a complete model with animations for $50, more power to you.
If a hobbiest wants to do it for next to nothing, and they are giving you what you want, then by all mean use them.
If this is the path you want to go, then it would be better to entice them with the game you are making and get them invloved 'for the fun of it' then to offer what amounts to $1/hr.
In the short term, it may get you what you want, but if you think long term, and want to attract professionals (or semi-pros) to the site and into the indie game market, then the numbers might have to be adjusted upwards a little. Talk like will scare pros (or those ready to go pro) away very quickly.
Don't get me wrong. I want the indie game community to succeed, and I hope you can get what you need (for free if you can).
When I first started frequenting the site, I was hoping that I could make enough contracting to possibly work full time for the indie community and make a meager living doing it. I think the indie commuinity is a good thing, and I think it is the future of gaming.
Sadly, I can't afford to work for those rates and not go broke really quickly. Many of my friends are also dissappointed that they can not make a reasonable income doing indie games.
All that being said...
I know that I am far too busy to consider doing anything in the price range that has been presented here.
If everyone wants to chip in to get some new animations done, contact me and I will let you know my teams contract work rates. If everyone were to pool their money, it might make sense for me and my crew to make a player or two and a whole set of animations for them.
Joe
#8
I have over 15 modelers hired on this way and alot of the modelers far exceed my expatations both in speed and quality.
As since we work via the internet its hard to rate someone on a hourly basis because who says there actualy working on the model. They could just be setting there doing nothing for a few hours. Ripping you off.
I've paid as much as $150 for a fully animated (15 different animations, Fully skinned, Human Male Warrior Base model)
But I use $50 as a base for all models.
03/03/2002 (9:46 am)
Hum.. Models are usely rated on a per model basis. I give the modelers as much time as they need to finish the model in a reasionable amount of time. Usely a week to two weeks.I have over 15 modelers hired on this way and alot of the modelers far exceed my expatations both in speed and quality.
As since we work via the internet its hard to rate someone on a hourly basis because who says there actualy working on the model. They could just be setting there doing nothing for a few hours. Ripping you off.
I've paid as much as $150 for a fully animated (15 different animations, Fully skinned, Human Male Warrior Base model)
But I use $50 as a base for all models.
#9
Even at 150$ as the other guy describe sounds good to me, but again you have to look at all mod comunities and all the work being done for free and have to wonder....
Im not doing my prject expecting to rake in the $$$ im doing it for the learning experience and for fun. So i really dont need pro models, just some that work, heck i was looking for the player.max (3.1) to be animated so i have somthing to go by. And offerd to add team members which should of implyed that this post was not ment for the pros but but not excluding them either.
03/03/2002 (10:14 am)
well i did ask what the going rate was, cuz i dont know, which brings up another question,,,why did you spend all that time on the default player.max (i assume joe did it)and ship the max file with out the animations included?, or am i really missing somthing here?Even at 150$ as the other guy describe sounds good to me, but again you have to look at all mod comunities and all the work being done for free and have to wonder....
Im not doing my prject expecting to rake in the $$$ im doing it for the learning experience and for fun. So i really dont need pro models, just some that work, heck i was looking for the player.max (3.1) to be animated so i have somthing to go by. And offerd to add team members which should of implyed that this post was not ment for the pros but but not excluding them either.
#10
In regards to the rate of artists and if you can trust them to be honest about the time they put in. I hate to admit it, but there are some dishonest people who don't keep track of their hours properly. If you are worried about this, most artists are capable of delivering quotes of how much work would cost (provided that you give them the necessary information).
From an artists prespective, if you wanted to be technical about it, you (the client) can be the one "ripping them off" if you expect a lot of work for very little pay. The artist also needs to hope to hell that you won't take the work and not pay for it.
Remember that arists need to spend a lot of money on their software, training, and hardware and if you combine this with the amount of time and frustration a project will give them, and you will hopefully understand why artist's laugh at some rates that non-artists throw around.
Remember that you pay for what you get. Good work takes a lot of time and that equals a lot of money. Shoddy work takes no time and you get it for cheap. The question is do you want your project to look like crap, or do you want it to shine?
Lastly, Gary I think you requirement for a Max R3.1 file might hinder your ability to find artists. Most legitamite users have migrated up to R4.x (since it is over a year old), so you might want to change your file delivery specifications.
Logan
03/03/2002 (10:22 am)
Pricing out models is a very difficult thing to do. If you are looking for a custom model then you can expect to pay big dollards for it. If you want something more generic that the artist can sell to multiple projects then you will likely get it for less (because the artist can sell based on volume and recouperate his investment). In regards to the rate of artists and if you can trust them to be honest about the time they put in. I hate to admit it, but there are some dishonest people who don't keep track of their hours properly. If you are worried about this, most artists are capable of delivering quotes of how much work would cost (provided that you give them the necessary information).
From an artists prespective, if you wanted to be technical about it, you (the client) can be the one "ripping them off" if you expect a lot of work for very little pay. The artist also needs to hope to hell that you won't take the work and not pay for it.
Remember that arists need to spend a lot of money on their software, training, and hardware and if you combine this with the amount of time and frustration a project will give them, and you will hopefully understand why artist's laugh at some rates that non-artists throw around.
Remember that you pay for what you get. Good work takes a lot of time and that equals a lot of money. Shoddy work takes no time and you get it for cheap. The question is do you want your project to look like crap, or do you want it to shine?
Lastly, Gary I think you requirement for a Max R3.1 file might hinder your ability to find artists. Most legitamite users have migrated up to R4.x (since it is over a year old), so you might want to change your file delivery specifications.
Logan
#11
The player.max file that comes with the doc I wrote took my no time at all (it was an old model I had, and it is not all that good). I included this as an example of how to hook up a player for export not as an example of how to build a model.
The animations in the SDK were not done by me. The player in my tutorial uses the same animations as the default SDK character that ship with the SDK in DSQ format.
The animations were not released in .max format as far as I know. This question should be directed at the GarageGames guys.
-----
As for the going rate:
The going rate is whatever you can get someone to work for. =)
If you can get people from the mod community to do it for free, do it.
If you want to pay an experienced contractor to do it, expect to pay $35-$80/hr. A character can take anywhere from a day or two up to a few weeks depending on the comlexity and quality that you want.
A professional contractor will bid the job on a per item basis, but he will use an hourly estmate (i.e. How long is this going to take) to work up the bid.
Inbetween free and pro, there is an infinite level of payscale.
There is an old adage:
Quick, Good, Cheap...
Pick Two.
-----
As for looking for team members, I wish you luck. At the moment, there are not that many that have enough experience with the tools to constitute a very large group. It would be better to try and get some of the MOD community to come here and learn the tools and grow the community.
Money will not attract them (my opinion), good games that are fun to work on will.
----
In time, the comminity will grow, and there will be a larger base of animators to draw from. At the moment, it is pretty slim pickings. This is unfortunate for you, but in time, this will change.
The animation system in the Torque is pretty hard to use as first. Don't expect a Newbie to the Torque to pick it up right away.
I have tried to help as much as time allows me to, but I need to concentrate on making a living.
As we move into the future, I will try to help the community as much as I am able.
----
The two animations you are asking for should take less than half a day, including testing and tweaking.
Joe
03/03/2002 (10:56 am)
The original player.max that comes with the SDK was not done by me. I have no idea who did it, but it appears to be a modified Tribes character.The player.max file that comes with the doc I wrote took my no time at all (it was an old model I had, and it is not all that good). I included this as an example of how to hook up a player for export not as an example of how to build a model.
The animations in the SDK were not done by me. The player in my tutorial uses the same animations as the default SDK character that ship with the SDK in DSQ format.
The animations were not released in .max format as far as I know. This question should be directed at the GarageGames guys.
-----
As for the going rate:
The going rate is whatever you can get someone to work for. =)
If you can get people from the mod community to do it for free, do it.
If you want to pay an experienced contractor to do it, expect to pay $35-$80/hr. A character can take anywhere from a day or two up to a few weeks depending on the comlexity and quality that you want.
A professional contractor will bid the job on a per item basis, but he will use an hourly estmate (i.e. How long is this going to take) to work up the bid.
Inbetween free and pro, there is an infinite level of payscale.
There is an old adage:
Quick, Good, Cheap...
Pick Two.
-----
As for looking for team members, I wish you luck. At the moment, there are not that many that have enough experience with the tools to constitute a very large group. It would be better to try and get some of the MOD community to come here and learn the tools and grow the community.
Money will not attract them (my opinion), good games that are fun to work on will.
----
In time, the comminity will grow, and there will be a larger base of animators to draw from. At the moment, it is pretty slim pickings. This is unfortunate for you, but in time, this will change.
The animation system in the Torque is pretty hard to use as first. Don't expect a Newbie to the Torque to pick it up right away.
I have tried to help as much as time allows me to, but I need to concentrate on making a living.
As we move into the future, I will try to help the community as much as I am able.
----
The two animations you are asking for should take less than half a day, including testing and tweaking.
Joe
#12
One thing though, everything at Garage Games is relative to the needs and intentions of the person making a post.
When Gary asks for a couple of animations to get them going, he probably isn't after professional ship-worthy content.
Likewise, if Thomas would like to pick up 50.00 bucks for handing over a passable model with a couple of animations attached, how could that be a bad thing?
I did a two week scrum through the g'd-awful slow polycount site and the un-sortable (dunno if that bug has been fixed yet) 3d-modeling Developer lists here to interest a couple of talented guys in our project. It was terrifying, and the responses I got from guys who were "pro or just about to go pro" were comically lacking.
Garage Games works almost exclusively on good faith, a willingness to dive in to the site, and the collaborative efforts of the community. To a certain extent the site depends on everyone's ability to establish the relevance of a particular post or thread to their unique situation, as they keep up with the community.
And, having said all this, I'd hate to see people establish a going rate for code snippets (which were written in expensive IDE's and only after years of acquiring experience in C++).
03/03/2002 (11:10 am)
I've discussed the possibility of having Joe do some modeling work for our project, and I believe we are all familiar with the quality of his work and his relentless generosity.One thing though, everything at Garage Games is relative to the needs and intentions of the person making a post.
When Gary asks for a couple of animations to get them going, he probably isn't after professional ship-worthy content.
Likewise, if Thomas would like to pick up 50.00 bucks for handing over a passable model with a couple of animations attached, how could that be a bad thing?
I did a two week scrum through the g'd-awful slow polycount site and the un-sortable (dunno if that bug has been fixed yet) 3d-modeling Developer lists here to interest a couple of talented guys in our project. It was terrifying, and the responses I got from guys who were "pro or just about to go pro" were comically lacking.
Garage Games works almost exclusively on good faith, a willingness to dive in to the site, and the collaborative efforts of the community. To a certain extent the site depends on everyone's ability to establish the relevance of a particular post or thread to their unique situation, as they keep up with the community.
And, having said all this, I'd hate to see people establish a going rate for code snippets (which were written in expensive IDE's and only after years of acquiring experience in C++).
#13
Joe, isnt really saying any thing i dont already understand, and i really agree that things are of the slim pickins nature ,which is why it would be very wise for anyone to promote tge to any mod comunity :)
03/03/2002 (11:12 am)
lfoster, heh, i have max3.1 and cant to models from scratch yet so i cant see upgrading to 4 ,,,and max 4 files are of no use to me cuz they are not compatible with max 3.1 , i have gotten email inquiruing about my requests already so i know that im not the only one that is using max3 , i have all the time in the world ,,,i'm not rushing anything.Joe, isnt really saying any thing i dont already understand, and i really agree that things are of the slim pickins nature ,which is why it would be very wise for anyone to promote tge to any mod comunity :)
#14
The dreaded timeout thing snagged me again. I wrote a big response and it didn't go through. =(
I am not going to re-type the whole thing.
Gary, good luck, I am sorry I can't help. Try to bring people here from the MOD community. This place needs more artists.
Michael, I agree with what you saying, with the exception of Thomas selling a model that he paid $50 for , for $50. It seems like he is ripping off the artist who made it.
For the going rate thing. If this becomes the 'standard' going rate for character models with animations, I don't think you are going to attract many people here with that, and I don't think that many will be happy with the quality. I hope I am wrong though.
If you can get it for those rates, good for you. It is a little warped though, as this is very low, and not even close what you would pay if you approached a pro shop.
I think that my main concern is that people realize that paying $50 for a character model is a bargain rate. It may become the going rate here, but it is not a fair rate by any stretch of the imagination, unless of course your modelers live in a third world country.
03/03/2002 (1:49 pm)
GAAAHHH!The dreaded timeout thing snagged me again. I wrote a big response and it didn't go through. =(
I am not going to re-type the whole thing.
Gary, good luck, I am sorry I can't help. Try to bring people here from the MOD community. This place needs more artists.
Michael, I agree with what you saying, with the exception of Thomas selling a model that he paid $50 for , for $50. It seems like he is ripping off the artist who made it.
For the going rate thing. If this becomes the 'standard' going rate for character models with animations, I don't think you are going to attract many people here with that, and I don't think that many will be happy with the quality. I hope I am wrong though.
If you can get it for those rates, good for you. It is a little warped though, as this is very low, and not even close what you would pay if you approached a pro shop.
I think that my main concern is that people realize that paying $50 for a character model is a bargain rate. It may become the going rate here, but it is not a fair rate by any stretch of the imagination, unless of course your modelers live in a third world country.
#15
iNvasionworks all the way!! :)
03/11/2002 (11:31 pm)
/me thanks whom ever he has to thank for the team of artists he is working withiNvasionworks all the way!! :)
Torque Owner Josh Albrecht
Say, what kind of game are you making exactly Gary?