Same graphic source but different out put...?
by game4Rest · in Torque Game Builder · 12/25/2005 (6:46 pm) · 10 replies
Hello all?
Finally, I made a success to animate my avatar on
my own map, with much help of TDN. But something strange happened when I copied all my project from desktop to laptop computer.
At first, my avatar's size became different. When I ran t2d.exe on my desktop, my avatar looked OK($player.setSize("20 20");). But when I copied all project to my Laptop computer, my avatar's size became extreamly small, at most 5*5 pixels.
Secondly, its position was different. On desktop, it was at the center of the map. But on
Laptop, it was at the upper left corner of the map.
I tried to change its size by "128 128" ($player.setSize("128 128");). At first it was OK. But when I moved
my avatar to the center of the screen, where "TORQUE Logo" was, its size became extreamly big then.
Is this supposed to happen when the computer system is different? And is there any solution for this?
I added differences of two computers.
My desktop
CPU : AMD athlon 1.1G
VGA : NVIDIA GeForce FX 6600
OS : Window XP Pro
Memory : 512 RAM
display resolution : 1024*768(32bit)
My Laptop
CPU : Intel Pentium M 1.6
VGA : Intel 82852 GM/GME(on board)
OS : Window XP
Memory : 512 RAM
display resolution : 1024*768(32bit)
You can see the image of desktop here.
http://cafe.empas.com/zzleggam/photo/photo1/read.html?asn=1¬ice=0&pno=1&oby=2&odir=0&fd=0&bt=30&ac=2&rurl=list.html%3Ffd%3D0%26oby%3D2%26odir%3D0
also, laptop here.
http://cafe.empas.com/zzleggam/photo/photo1/read.html?asn=2¬ice=0&pno=1&oby=2&odir=0&fd=0&bt=30&ac=2&rurl=list.html%3Ffd%3D0%26oby%3D2%26odir%3D0
Thanks in advance.
Hong Jin
Finally, I made a success to animate my avatar on
my own map, with much help of TDN. But something strange happened when I copied all my project from desktop to laptop computer.
At first, my avatar's size became different. When I ran t2d.exe on my desktop, my avatar looked OK($player.setSize("20 20");). But when I copied all project to my Laptop computer, my avatar's size became extreamly small, at most 5*5 pixels.
Secondly, its position was different. On desktop, it was at the center of the map. But on
Laptop, it was at the upper left corner of the map.
I tried to change its size by "128 128" ($player.setSize("128 128");). At first it was OK. But when I moved
my avatar to the center of the screen, where "TORQUE Logo" was, its size became extreamly big then.
Is this supposed to happen when the computer system is different? And is there any solution for this?
I added differences of two computers.
My desktop
CPU : AMD athlon 1.1G
VGA : NVIDIA GeForce FX 6600
OS : Window XP Pro
Memory : 512 RAM
display resolution : 1024*768(32bit)
My Laptop
CPU : Intel Pentium M 1.6
VGA : Intel 82852 GM/GME(on board)
OS : Window XP
Memory : 512 RAM
display resolution : 1024*768(32bit)
You can see the image of desktop here.
http://cafe.empas.com/zzleggam/photo/photo1/read.html?asn=1¬ice=0&pno=1&oby=2&odir=0&fd=0&bt=30&ac=2&rurl=list.html%3Ffd%3D0%26oby%3D2%26odir%3D0
also, laptop here.
http://cafe.empas.com/zzleggam/photo/photo1/read.html?asn=2¬ice=0&pno=1&oby=2&odir=0&fd=0&bt=30&ac=2&rurl=list.html%3Ffd%3D0%26oby%3D2%26odir%3D0
Thanks in advance.
Hong Jin
About the author
Recent Threads
#2
The problem seems to be related to tile layers. A project I worked on a few months ago worked fine on an old Win2000 machine until I added tile layers. Once I added a tile layer, I had the exact same problem with most sprites getting scaled tiny and shoved into the upper-let corner of the screen.
12/26/2005 (11:28 am)
This is a known bug with T2D version 1.0.2 that is hopefully fixed in 1.1. If you download the pre-compiled spacescroller demo app (the one publicly available, not the one that comes with any of the SDKs) here you'll probably find that it works correctly. That demo was built with 1.01 so the problem was introduced in the 1.0.2 release.The problem seems to be related to tile layers. A project I worked on a few months ago worked fine on an old Win2000 machine until I added tile layers. Once I added a tile layer, I had the exact same problem with most sprites getting scaled tiny and shoved into the upper-let corner of the screen.
#3
As a matter of fact, I'm working with version 1.1 alpha. It seems like the bug isn't fixed yet.
But I believe someone already found out how to solve this problem. If then, please help me.
Thanks in advance.
HongJin
12/26/2005 (7:17 pm)
Luke, thanks for your reply.As a matter of fact, I'm working with version 1.1 alpha. It seems like the bug isn't fixed yet.
But I believe someone already found out how to solve this problem. If then, please help me.
Thanks in advance.
HongJin
#4
Could you point me to a link for this one?
- Melv.
12/27/2005 (2:55 am)
Known software bug? If I remember correctly, it's not a bug with T2D but a problem with the driver for the intel chipset.Could you point me to a link for this one?
- Melv.
#5
As you advised, I updated my graphic driver. And it works fine now.
Though it is not so difficult to find it, the latest Intel graphic driver can be found
at http://support.intel.com/support/graphics/ .
Thanks a lot!
Hong Jin
12/27/2005 (8:41 am)
Dear Melv,As you advised, I updated my graphic driver. And it works fine now.
Though it is not so difficult to find it, the latest Intel graphic driver can be found
at http://support.intel.com/support/graphics/ .
Thanks a lot!
Hong Jin
#7
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=35600
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=32037
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=32370
A lot of the older video chipsets aren't being updated any longer, so even if this is a case where 1.02 started using some new video routine that 1.01 wasn't using, it'd be nice to track it down and know for sure and/or maybe find a workaround for compatibility's sake. There's a large chunk of the casual games customer base that have older, on-motherboard video like this and aren't inclined to dig very deep for obscure video drivers. :)
12/27/2005 (12:37 pm)
Here are a bunch of threads (couple are on the 'Report Bugs topic') that didn't get any real acknowledgement or resolution about this issue:http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=35600
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=32037
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=32370
A lot of the older video chipsets aren't being updated any longer, so even if this is a case where 1.02 started using some new video routine that 1.01 wasn't using, it'd be nice to track it down and know for sure and/or maybe find a workaround for compatibility's sake. There's a large chunk of the casual games customer base that have older, on-motherboard video like this and aren't inclined to dig very deep for obscure video drivers. :)
#8
Having robust 3D hardware support is essential to T2D but technically, any incompatibility will either be core TGE or a dodgy-driver as T2D is a user of both. Historically, TGE has exposed problems with older-generation Intel-Graphics chipsets as well as D3D issues with certain ATI drivers/cards.
The T2D product hasn't changed a single thing in the way it renders to the graphics-card because it doesn't do this; this is core TGE. We have been using TGE v1.3 since conception; nothing has changed. The first and only change will be the merge with TGE v1.4 and to answer anything video related, you'd have to wait for a response from a GG employee as I am not working or knowledgable as to changes to the core.
I understand the need to use lower and lower hardware, particularly for casual games but as has been stated quite a few times, GG will be addressing the issue (or more specifically, the very old D3D/OpenGL graphics layer) which will affect not only T2D but TGE as well.
Work-arounds, as you mention, again would have to be TGE core.
Hong Jin Park didn't have to "dig deep for obscure video drivers"; he just updated them from the official site. If a customer isn't capable or cannot be bothered to do this; there is very little I can do. I feel that I answered Hong Jun Parks question to the best of my ability; I'm sorry if I didn't attend to the other threads though.
- Melv.
12/27/2005 (1:12 pm)
I am not sure as to the reason for your post Luke. I reply to 90% (made-up statistic but it's pretty high) of the posts on these forums; unfortunately, I can't always acknowledge or resolve every single one. These problems are nearly always driver issues and have been covered again and again and posts have been answered on this subject several times. Have you noticed that it's Xmas and I'm still answering posts. I've spent all day today answering posts and working on T2D. I'm sorry to sound defensive but your references seem to indicate that I'm somehow lacking in support.Having robust 3D hardware support is essential to T2D but technically, any incompatibility will either be core TGE or a dodgy-driver as T2D is a user of both. Historically, TGE has exposed problems with older-generation Intel-Graphics chipsets as well as D3D issues with certain ATI drivers/cards.
The T2D product hasn't changed a single thing in the way it renders to the graphics-card because it doesn't do this; this is core TGE. We have been using TGE v1.3 since conception; nothing has changed. The first and only change will be the merge with TGE v1.4 and to answer anything video related, you'd have to wait for a response from a GG employee as I am not working or knowledgable as to changes to the core.
I understand the need to use lower and lower hardware, particularly for casual games but as has been stated quite a few times, GG will be addressing the issue (or more specifically, the very old D3D/OpenGL graphics layer) which will affect not only T2D but TGE as well.
Work-arounds, as you mention, again would have to be TGE core.
Hong Jin Park didn't have to "dig deep for obscure video drivers"; he just updated them from the official site. If a customer isn't capable or cannot be bothered to do this; there is very little I can do. I feel that I answered Hong Jun Parks question to the best of my ability; I'm sorry if I didn't attend to the other threads though.
- Melv.
#9
Why jump all over me? I considered these threads open 'known' (in the sense that people have seen the issue, reproduced it, and posted it in the official location to report such things) issues simply because there are no answers one way or another.
Also, *no* other thread that I've ever seen addresses this very specific issue, nor acknowledged the fact that 1.01 spacescroller WORKS FINE, and 1.02 DOES NOT on the same hardware with the same drivers. This is the only reason I hoped you or a GG person would take a closer look between the two versions and might suggest what might have changed.
Hon Jin Park is, I expect, far from representative of the majority of people that are downloading and buying casual games. If your attitude is really to write off the rather large segment of customers who are likely technically unaware of driver updating beyond Windows Update, then perhaps T2D is a mis-match for the casual gaming segment. Most of the time these people just move on when something doesn't work, and that translates directly to lost revenue. Appropriately, most games in this area "just work", and it would seem common sense to uphold that wherever reasonably possible. Again I point out that 1.01 *works* and 1.02 *does not* with the same machine, same video hardware, same drivers.
Melv, I have repeatedly, vocally applauded your accomplishments time and time again, have lauded your dedication (and even made serious pleas for you to take time off to be with your family instead of being obligated to be here getting alpha versions out or doing support) and yet your replies to my questions often feel barbed and overly defensive. You also chose not to reply to any of four emails I sent earlier in the year. If anything I've said in the past was ever taken the wrong way to cause this, you've got my appologies but as someone else who spends a LOT of time answering questions on T2D and contributing what I can (I'm here on Christmas helping others too, you can see), I can't help but take some offense at your tone.
Please feel free to email me directly if you wish to have a dialog, I don't want to splay this out here any further.
12/27/2005 (1:45 pm)
Melv, I was simply bringing your attention to threads that you yourself asked for:Quote:
Known software bug? If I remember correctly, it's not a bug with T2D but a problem with the driver for the intel chipset.
Could you point me to a link for this one?
- Melv.
Why jump all over me? I considered these threads open 'known' (in the sense that people have seen the issue, reproduced it, and posted it in the official location to report such things) issues simply because there are no answers one way or another.
Also, *no* other thread that I've ever seen addresses this very specific issue, nor acknowledged the fact that 1.01 spacescroller WORKS FINE, and 1.02 DOES NOT on the same hardware with the same drivers. This is the only reason I hoped you or a GG person would take a closer look between the two versions and might suggest what might have changed.
Hon Jin Park is, I expect, far from representative of the majority of people that are downloading and buying casual games. If your attitude is really to write off the rather large segment of customers who are likely technically unaware of driver updating beyond Windows Update, then perhaps T2D is a mis-match for the casual gaming segment. Most of the time these people just move on when something doesn't work, and that translates directly to lost revenue. Appropriately, most games in this area "just work", and it would seem common sense to uphold that wherever reasonably possible. Again I point out that 1.01 *works* and 1.02 *does not* with the same machine, same video hardware, same drivers.
Melv, I have repeatedly, vocally applauded your accomplishments time and time again, have lauded your dedication (and even made serious pleas for you to take time off to be with your family instead of being obligated to be here getting alpha versions out or doing support) and yet your replies to my questions often feel barbed and overly defensive. You also chose not to reply to any of four emails I sent earlier in the year. If anything I've said in the past was ever taken the wrong way to cause this, you've got my appologies but as someone else who spends a LOT of time answering questions on T2D and contributing what I can (I'm here on Christmas helping others too, you can see), I can't help but take some offense at your tone.
Please feel free to email me directly if you wish to have a dialog, I don't want to splay this out here any further.
#10
I am not trying to ignore a potentially huge segment of customers or anything like that but I will state for the record that a majority of problems encountered like this are related to a combination of the outdated graphics-layer and chipsets/drivers like Intel/ATI. The way to solve this is to address the root of the problem, not put in work-arounds (hacks) or spend lots of time/energy worrying what specific issue this time causes a shooter-demo to work/fail.
If we wanted to get the demo working on a huge market segment, we would have written it completely differently anyway.
I think what I'm try to get across here is that there are plans to address this issue and that hacks/work-arounds are only going to prolong the agony. There's a better way but as everything, it takes time.
Quite often, these problems are extremely difficult to trace even if you know exactly what you changed as they are some obscure artifact of doing something a certain way a certain time that exposes a problem. These kind of problems have been around in TGE for a long time and it's about time the root of the problem is cured and it would be short-sighted of us to spend days/weeks just fixing it up.
On the upside, T2D already has 3 casual games out there with very low-end specs and another on the way. Using the shooter-demo as an example is dangerous considering that it was written without consideration of the target hardware and was done so in less than two days! Grant you it's the only demo T2D has at the moment (something that will be addressed soon) but that would be our problem.
I'm sorry if I offended you (your intent was unclear and I was tired) but the facts are that nothing is being ignored; low-end support is extremely important but there's a better solution for us to bring to you and your customers.
In all your statements above, I agree and please consider this post partially an apology.
All the best,
- Melv.
12/27/2005 (3:17 pm)
Look man, I'm sorry if I bit a little too hard; long day working on T2D over Xmas and read your post late, not a good combination but also not a great excuse.I am not trying to ignore a potentially huge segment of customers or anything like that but I will state for the record that a majority of problems encountered like this are related to a combination of the outdated graphics-layer and chipsets/drivers like Intel/ATI. The way to solve this is to address the root of the problem, not put in work-arounds (hacks) or spend lots of time/energy worrying what specific issue this time causes a shooter-demo to work/fail.
If we wanted to get the demo working on a huge market segment, we would have written it completely differently anyway.
I think what I'm try to get across here is that there are plans to address this issue and that hacks/work-arounds are only going to prolong the agony. There's a better way but as everything, it takes time.
Quite often, these problems are extremely difficult to trace even if you know exactly what you changed as they are some obscure artifact of doing something a certain way a certain time that exposes a problem. These kind of problems have been around in TGE for a long time and it's about time the root of the problem is cured and it would be short-sighted of us to spend days/weeks just fixing it up.
On the upside, T2D already has 3 casual games out there with very low-end specs and another on the way. Using the shooter-demo as an example is dangerous considering that it was written without consideration of the target hardware and was done so in less than two days! Grant you it's the only demo T2D has at the moment (something that will be addressed soon) but that would be our problem.
I'm sorry if I offended you (your intent was unclear and I was tired) but the facts are that nothing is being ignored; low-end support is extremely important but there's a better solution for us to bring to you and your customers.
In all your statements above, I agree and please consider this post partially an apology.
All the best,
- Melv.
Torque Owner game4Rest
colyd studio
it is difficult to find them. And unfortunately, I failed to find my ship.
Is there anyone who has same problem like me? And if someone give me the answer, it will be highly appreciated.
Hong Jin