MMCWS -- Massively Mis-Channeled WebSite
by Darrel Cusey · in Torque Game Engine · 12/15/2005 (9:33 pm) · 10 replies
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Note: Since I posted this, GG has done a massive overhall of their website, and now all the disparate channels can be seen together in a "tabbed" view in certain area.
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I'd have to say that my biggest hurdle as a developer working with GarageGames is not a lack of documentation. The biggest hurdle I face on a daily basis is that the garagegames website is severely suffering from....
Channel Overload!!!
This site has (at last count) 14 different "channels" in which information may (or may not) be located and it's making a search that should only take a minute or two (yes, I use Search -- quite a bit I'm afraid) instead take HOURS...
Let's count off all the current garagegames channels together:
1. "Product Page" Tutorials and Documentation -- Tutorials and Documentation listed on the product page like this one: http://www.garagegames.com/mg/projects/tge/
2. "Torque News" -- has links to _different_ (usually older) sets of documentation. If you can't find "Torque News" see below for the detailed step-by-step directions you can take to get there :-)
3. The EGTGE (in PDF) -- Apparantly, this is the "official" documentation for TGE.
4. Getting Started With Torque (looks identical to # 3 but listed as a separate resource) -- oh, no, wait, THIS is the official documentation: http://www.garagegames.com/docs/tge/general/pt01.php
5. The "Torque Documentation" (looks identical to # 3 and # 4 but again is listed as a separate resource) -- wrong again, THIS is the official documentation:
http://www.garagegames.com/docs/tge/general/index.php
6. Torque Documentation on other people's websites that is _not_ on garagegames.com -- like these:
http://www.codesampler.com/torque.htm
7. "Full Official Documentation" (what, #5 wasn't it ?!?!)
http://www.garagegames.com/docs/tge/
8. Torque Developer's Network (with a completely different set of FAQs, tutorials and docs... AND the "official" documentation now in wiki form):
http://tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/TorqueGameEngine
9. TDN "Discussion" Pages. You can't see comments from the main wiki entry pages, you have to click the "discussion" link on each page to see if there's any relevant updates/adds/changes
10. TDE "What's New" pages -- not to be confused with the completely separate "Torque News" (# 2)
11. GarageGames Blogs
12. Community Blogs
13. Public Forums
14. Private Forums
Second biggest problem -- Mis-Channeling. The garagegames website is severely suffering from mis-channeling. Mis-Channeling is like asking someone what time it is, and they answer "Michigan."
Mis-Channeling Examples:
Follow these steps to get to the Torque Store:
1. Go to the garagegames homepage: http://www.garagegames.com/
2. Click on the "Development Community" link -- that's right, the "Development Community" link __on the homepage__ brings you to the store.
Follow these steps to get to Torque News:
1. Go to the garagegames homepage: http://www.garagegames.com/
2. Do you see a product link for their 2d engine or their network library??? Nope, it's not there.
3. Now click on the Torque Game Engine link in the top under "Make Games"
4. Ahhh, here's where The Net Library and Torque 2D are ... why are they listed under the TGE area?
5. Under the Developer Network area on the left, click on the "Torque Net Library" link
6. Ahhh, of course -- this is how you get to Torque News
Note: Since I posted this, GG has done a massive overhall of their website, and now all the disparate channels can be seen together in a "tabbed" view in certain area.
--------------
I'd have to say that my biggest hurdle as a developer working with GarageGames is not a lack of documentation. The biggest hurdle I face on a daily basis is that the garagegames website is severely suffering from....
Channel Overload!!!
This site has (at last count) 14 different "channels" in which information may (or may not) be located and it's making a search that should only take a minute or two (yes, I use Search -- quite a bit I'm afraid) instead take HOURS...
Let's count off all the current garagegames channels together:
1. "Product Page" Tutorials and Documentation -- Tutorials and Documentation listed on the product page like this one: http://www.garagegames.com/mg/projects/tge/
2. "Torque News" -- has links to _different_ (usually older) sets of documentation. If you can't find "Torque News" see below for the detailed step-by-step directions you can take to get there :-)
3. The EGTGE (in PDF) -- Apparantly, this is the "official" documentation for TGE.
4. Getting Started With Torque (looks identical to # 3 but listed as a separate resource) -- oh, no, wait, THIS is the official documentation: http://www.garagegames.com/docs/tge/general/pt01.php
5. The "Torque Documentation" (looks identical to # 3 and # 4 but again is listed as a separate resource) -- wrong again, THIS is the official documentation:
http://www.garagegames.com/docs/tge/general/index.php
6. Torque Documentation on other people's websites that is _not_ on garagegames.com -- like these:
http://www.codesampler.com/torque.htm
7. "Full Official Documentation" (what, #5 wasn't it ?!?!)
http://www.garagegames.com/docs/tge/
8. Torque Developer's Network (with a completely different set of FAQs, tutorials and docs... AND the "official" documentation now in wiki form):
http://tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/TorqueGameEngine
9. TDN "Discussion" Pages. You can't see comments from the main wiki entry pages, you have to click the "discussion" link on each page to see if there's any relevant updates/adds/changes
10. TDE "What's New" pages -- not to be confused with the completely separate "Torque News" (# 2)
11. GarageGames Blogs
12. Community Blogs
13. Public Forums
14. Private Forums
Second biggest problem -- Mis-Channeling. The garagegames website is severely suffering from mis-channeling. Mis-Channeling is like asking someone what time it is, and they answer "Michigan."
Mis-Channeling Examples:
Follow these steps to get to the Torque Store:
1. Go to the garagegames homepage: http://www.garagegames.com/
2. Click on the "Development Community" link -- that's right, the "Development Community" link __on the homepage__ brings you to the store.
Follow these steps to get to Torque News:
1. Go to the garagegames homepage: http://www.garagegames.com/
2. Do you see a product link for their 2d engine or their network library??? Nope, it's not there.
3. Now click on the Torque Game Engine link in the top under "Make Games"
4. Ahhh, here's where The Net Library and Torque 2D are ... why are they listed under the TGE area?
5. Under the Developer Network area on the left, click on the "Torque Net Library" link
6. Ahhh, of course -- this is how you get to Torque News
#3
12/15/2005 (11:35 pm)
If it takes you hours than you're doing something wrong. Also, the site is very well laid out, so well in fact that I ponder the point of TDN??? Anyway, there is one easy click to visit the torque store to see all torque products. That would be the "Torque Store" link on the top of the main page, not too hard too find. All the links you need are there at the top, all the rest are just added bonus'.
#5
Its nice that you mention these things for them though, im sure GarageGames will appreciate you bring the problems to thier attention.
Keep it coming! :p
12/16/2005 (3:28 am)
Its because they dont get to do comprehendive testing on the site, as it can be time consuming.Its nice that you mention these things for them though, im sure GarageGames will appreciate you bring the problems to thier attention.
Keep it coming! :p
#6
In response to Jon's question: "What can't you find?"
Well, I can usually find most things using the Search Tool. Right now, however, I'm looking for the "official" way of setting up a new Torque project for VC7 (2k3 .net). So far, the answers I've found range from "Copy Your Whole /SDK/ folder to a new folder and re-compile" all the way to "Open VC7, start a new project anywhere you want, and add the files listed in the MiniApp Tutorial," with a couple other answers in-between.
If the answer to this question ("What's the best way to start a new Torque VC7 Project") is really "well, it depends on what you want to do," I'd like to see a list of which files are needed for what types of games or something like that...
If that Tutorial (Step by Step Directions for Starting a New Torque Project for VC7) doesn't exist, I'd be _more_ than happy to write it myself... but I can't find a good answer so far :-/
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In response to Anthony's comment, "Anyway, there is one easy click to visit the torque store to see all torque products. That would be the "Torque Store" link on the top of the main page.."
Anthony, the point I was making was _not_ that I was having problems finding the Store Link -- come on... :-)
No, the point I was making was that when you click the "Development Community" link from the homepage, it takes you to the Store -- which isn't what most people would expect and is a perfect example of mis-channeling.
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12/16/2005 (7:24 am)
----------------------In response to Jon's question: "What can't you find?"
Well, I can usually find most things using the Search Tool. Right now, however, I'm looking for the "official" way of setting up a new Torque project for VC7 (2k3 .net). So far, the answers I've found range from "Copy Your Whole /SDK/ folder to a new folder and re-compile" all the way to "Open VC7, start a new project anywhere you want, and add the files listed in the MiniApp Tutorial," with a couple other answers in-between.
If the answer to this question ("What's the best way to start a new Torque VC7 Project") is really "well, it depends on what you want to do," I'd like to see a list of which files are needed for what types of games or something like that...
If that Tutorial (Step by Step Directions for Starting a New Torque Project for VC7) doesn't exist, I'd be _more_ than happy to write it myself... but I can't find a good answer so far :-/
----------------------
In response to Anthony's comment, "Anyway, there is one easy click to visit the torque store to see all torque products. That would be the "Torque Store" link on the top of the main page.."
Anthony, the point I was making was _not_ that I was having problems finding the Store Link -- come on... :-)
No, the point I was making was that when you click the "Development Community" link from the homepage, it takes you to the Store -- which isn't what most people would expect and is a perfect example of mis-channeling.
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#7
12/16/2005 (9:16 am)
Darrel, maybe I'm missing something here, but there is already a VC7 solution that comes with the SDK. Just go into the VC7 folder and open the .sln file. If you rename the solution file it will show up with that name on the start page of the designer. All the paths are relative in the project files so you could even copy the entire SDK folder to a new destination and still open the solution.
#8
12/16/2005 (3:03 pm)
Heh, the day after I complain about the entire website is completely redone. This is a big improvement -- thanks GG!
#9
Is that really the way that most people create a new project is just by copying over the whole SDK folder to a new place -- that seems a bit overkill, since I can't imagine I'd ever use all the source code that's there no matter kind of game I'm building. But, if that's really the way everyone does it... I guess I'll try it.
Thanks!
12/16/2005 (3:05 pm)
Ryan,Is that really the way that most people create a new project is just by copying over the whole SDK folder to a new place -- that seems a bit overkill, since I can't imagine I'd ever use all the source code that's there no matter kind of game I'm building. But, if that's really the way everyone does it... I guess I'll try it.
Thanks!
#10
12/17/2005 (8:19 am)
The easiest way to do it is to copy the SDK, open the solution and remove the projects you don't want. Then you can remove those folders from your copied SDK. Keep in mind that it is already set up to put the torque EXE into the example directory, but you can change that if you want. The only real projects that you don't need in the SDK to compile the engine are the Map2Dif and DTS exporters. Everything else is used by the engine. 
Torque 3D Owner Jesse Liles