Black&White from a design perspective
by SR · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 03/29/2001 (9:42 am) · 10 replies
This one should get me in a bit of trouble, or at least raise eyebrows...
Was anyone else as unimpressed with Black&White as me?? I mean the gameplay itself, not the technology (which, of course, is very cool).
I'll say outright that I've only played it for 12 hours so far, but after the first couple I've been having to force myself to carry on. It's been more successful at frustrating me than anything. All those cool features we've been hearing about so much (gestures, creatures, miracles) aren't quite as fun as I thought they'd be.
Before the flames commence, I will expound on my comments later. For now, I just want to know if anyone else out there shares my thoughts on this?
Scott
Was anyone else as unimpressed with Black&White as me?? I mean the gameplay itself, not the technology (which, of course, is very cool).
I'll say outright that I've only played it for 12 hours so far, but after the first couple I've been having to force myself to carry on. It's been more successful at frustrating me than anything. All those cool features we've been hearing about so much (gestures, creatures, miracles) aren't quite as fun as I thought they'd be.
Before the flames commence, I will expound on my comments later. For now, I just want to know if anyone else out there shares my thoughts on this?
Scott
#2
The training/learning aspects of the creature is cool. Just left mine tethered up in the village and pretty soon he's tossing tree's into the store and giving hugs to the villagers.
From what I've seen so far, I think they tried to explain as little as possible, so that you could experience it all in the game world. The problem is that there are enough things that are not intuitive, and figuring out how to do stuff is frustrating.
Joel.
03/29/2001 (12:23 pm)
I'm enjoying the game, but something doesn't feel right about the creatures. It isn't explained (at least not yet, I'm in the 2nd land right now) exactly how to control and satisfy your creature. I can feed him, but when he's thirsty, what do I do, rain? If the game is going to annoy you with "Your creature is thirsty" "Your creature needs to poop" "Your creature is tired" they should explain how to make him drink/poop/rest.The training/learning aspects of the creature is cool. Just left mine tethered up in the village and pretty soon he's tossing tree's into the store and giving hugs to the villagers.
From what I've seen so far, I think they tried to explain as little as possible, so that you could experience it all in the game world. The problem is that there are enough things that are not intuitive, and figuring out how to do stuff is frustrating.
Joel.
#3
But the controls for your little adopted d00d are GREAT. I've been using a very Machiavellian strategy to training my animal, and it's coming along GREAT -- he's definitely got a sort of sick and twisted relationship with me. A few tips on raising a Big Nasty are to encourage him to stay away from town AND encourage him to eat a few villagers. In conjunction with proper training, this increases YOUR power immensely, because the village gets VERY strong when your villagers are afraid to wander too far; they're immensely dependant on you, and it has the added advantage of making your animal more likely to be 'offense-minded' when it comes to attacking things further from home. I try not to let him roam at all. Also, seek out a few enemy straggler villagers when your animal is young and tell him to kill 'em -- AND REWARD THE SHIT OUT OF HIM when he does! Always move him to a 'safer' locale immediately to keep him from getting killed by the enemy gods, but reward random, sporadic acts of violence.
This is just to make a truly evil animal -- while allowing you to keep 'goodness' alive in your village. Soon, your villagers are TERRIFIED of your animal, and will sometimes start worshipping you when he enters the town. KEEP HIM AWAY! Just make him a completely messed-up killing machine, and let him wreak havoc somewhere that is not your town.
This game is very, very fun.
03/29/2001 (12:40 pm)
Some things I wasn't impressed with -- for instance, I think the multiplayer modes really aren't too great.But the controls for your little adopted d00d are GREAT. I've been using a very Machiavellian strategy to training my animal, and it's coming along GREAT -- he's definitely got a sort of sick and twisted relationship with me. A few tips on raising a Big Nasty are to encourage him to stay away from town AND encourage him to eat a few villagers. In conjunction with proper training, this increases YOUR power immensely, because the village gets VERY strong when your villagers are afraid to wander too far; they're immensely dependant on you, and it has the added advantage of making your animal more likely to be 'offense-minded' when it comes to attacking things further from home. I try not to let him roam at all. Also, seek out a few enemy straggler villagers when your animal is young and tell him to kill 'em -- AND REWARD THE SHIT OUT OF HIM when he does! Always move him to a 'safer' locale immediately to keep him from getting killed by the enemy gods, but reward random, sporadic acts of violence.
This is just to make a truly evil animal -- while allowing you to keep 'goodness' alive in your village. Soon, your villagers are TERRIFIED of your animal, and will sometimes start worshipping you when he enters the town. KEEP HIM AWAY! Just make him a completely messed-up killing machine, and let him wreak havoc somewhere that is not your town.
This game is very, very fun.
#4
Remember though: failing to plan, is planing to fail.
Overall I dislike the design process they used because it is not efficient, but I love the game.
-Skye
12/02/2002 (3:21 am)
I initially found black and white very impressive. It is original and ground breaking. From a design point though, I am under the impression that Lionhead Studios use a very loose design process, and that's why it takes so long for them to make a game. But hay, at the end of the road, if they can afford to take there time going back and forth trying to work it into genius, then why not? Remember though: failing to plan, is planing to fail.
Overall I dislike the design process they used because it is not efficient, but I love the game.
-Skye
#6
01/07/2003 (8:31 pm)
Many, many, many graphical glitches. The control mechanism, however, was impressive. The hand motion interface for spells was pretty sweet, and throwing stuff was kinda fun, but really, the control interface was its only strength.
#7
But, back to design: The worst part was gameplay. For a game with such a great engine and a whole bunch of revolutionary ideas, the gameplay was simply awful. It was linear to the extreme, and sorely lacking in creativity. Most of the quests were so unimaginative, I couldn't believe it.
Now I did say there were revolutionary ideas in the game. The basic idea from raising a pet that learns from you and develops according to whatever you teach it is one of those, and it was actually executed in an ok way, but it wasn't enough to carry the game.
So from the design perspective, there's a lot of stuff one can take from the game. I can imagine four or five "smaller" games that take up parts of it and make them work.
01/08/2003 (12:17 am)
From a design perspective: Yes, I was absolutely not impressed. All the non-design work was good, as far as I can judge (didn't play it for very long). Graphics are good, the engine is great (I duplicated the "zoom from apple worm to world" scene myself, this is very impressive) and sounds and other stuff were pretty good, too.But, back to design: The worst part was gameplay. For a game with such a great engine and a whole bunch of revolutionary ideas, the gameplay was simply awful. It was linear to the extreme, and sorely lacking in creativity. Most of the quests were so unimaginative, I couldn't believe it.
Now I did say there were revolutionary ideas in the game. The basic idea from raising a pet that learns from you and develops according to whatever you teach it is one of those, and it was actually executed in an ok way, but it wasn't enough to carry the game.
So from the design perspective, there's a lot of stuff one can take from the game. I can imagine four or five "smaller" games that take up parts of it and make them work.
#8
03/03/2003 (2:20 pm)
I only gave it three hours before I unistalled it. I also heard all this talk about what a great game it was. Maybe I was expecting to much but I found it to be as boring as well as very simaler game play as Sim City. Not enough action for me and if I wanted to manipulate stupid animals I would get a pet.
#9
Sound like Brotherhood of the Wolf to me. If you have not seen it...I recommend it highly.
03/03/2003 (2:36 pm)
Luc,Sound like Brotherhood of the Wolf to me. If you have not seen it...I recommend it highly.
#10
Black & White came out around the same time as Dark Cloud (or close enough). Both games got really good reviews from critics, and so I purchased both. Both of them sucked. I will never buy a game magazine again, nor any review for any entertainment, because critics always piss me off this way. That is my boycott.
I had to take a can of compressed air to the inside of my comp just to get BNW to run for 5 minutes! When it ran for 15, I was impressed. When my conscience started skewing across the screen and Windows blew up, I gave up and walked away. As for Dark Cloud.... Rent it and play it for 20 minutes. You never will again.
05/13/2003 (10:27 pm)
I tossed that game. It's in a dump somewhere.Black & White came out around the same time as Dark Cloud (or close enough). Both games got really good reviews from critics, and so I purchased both. Both of them sucked. I will never buy a game magazine again, nor any review for any entertainment, because critics always piss me off this way. That is my boycott.
I had to take a can of compressed air to the inside of my comp just to get BNW to run for 5 minutes! When it ran for 15, I was impressed. When my conscience started skewing across the screen and Windows blew up, I gave up and walked away. As for Dark Cloud.... Rent it and play it for 20 minutes. You never will again.
Adam Budda