Will TSE be portable to PS3?

#41 Ah oke , not really dug into Colleda that mutch just knew they where touting it

#42 [QOUTE]
Not to mention that with Rev you can make a game for NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, or Revolution. I fail to see the downside of any of this, unless people are fanboys.
[/QOUTE]

Waaa? Where did you hear this? Why on earth would you make a game for NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube? You do know that with new technology and current hardware you can make a game that is EXACTLY like an NES or SNES, but runs on current hardware? I seriously doubt Nintendo Dev kits has the capability to write a game that works on the SNES or NES for that matter.

All I've heard is that their back catelog of games will be available to play, IE some sort of emulator...

#43 I think what he means is that with the REV u can play the whole back catalog of old nintendo games from old gen consoles on the new machine , i doubt very mutch if you will have features in the SDK that allow developers to make those kind of games

#44 Does Sony or Microsoft support inde devolpers?

#45 Well, with the inclusion of Garage Games titles on XBox Live Aracade, I think it's safe to say that Microsoft certainly does, but Sony? Pfffft.

#46 Heh , your going on saying MS is soo indie friendly but you still have to take into acount that GG reputation and they have a past history of developing games and have a good track record with Marble Blast .

#47 Actually, Microsoft said they have also been working directly with some indie developers. They said the more common way though probably to work with indies is through an outlet like GG.

#48 Yeah fair enough but i still don't se them giving out SDK's left right and centre to every indie teamk

#49 Microsoft has been very actively supporting indie developers for more than a year and a half and is committed at a very high level to continuing to do so (those of you at IGC may have heard that J. Allard is a huge supporter of indie games and Bill Gates absolutely loves Live Arcade). Microsoft helped put 22 indie titles on Xbox 1 Live Arcade and launched the Xbox 360 with 15 indie titles (and at least one more on the way in the very near future ;)

At this stage in the game Nintendo's talk of "supporting" indie developers is just that: talk. Talk is cheap and makes for good marketing but they haven't made any actual overtures into supporting indie developers. If you read between the lines of their press releases on supporting "indies" it becomes clear that what they are really referring to are smaller, publisher supported studios, much larger than the developers in this community and the other "indie" communities.

Sony thus far has shown *zero* interest in supporting independent game developers (and yes we have been in contact with them). They have also apparently crippled their potential to support indie developers with the PS3 by rejecting the idea of downloadable games which is currently the only viable option for the small indie developers (disc manufacturing costs alone are out of the reach of most indies without outisde funding). Granted the PS3 isn't near to being out yet so we don't know for sure that it won't support a Live Arcade-like download system but at this point all indications say no.

The PS2 Linux kit was a toy that was totally unsuitable for game development (yes...I have seen Torque running on it). There is absolutely no reason to believe that the PS3 Linux kit (if it ever exists) will be any different. Sony doesn't mind a handful of users browsing the web and checking email on the PlayStation but they definitely have a vested interest in keeping games from being made without them having direct control. Even if you managed to write a game for a PS2/3 Linux kit you still have the problem that others won't be able to play it without first purchasing a Linux kit of their own which is going to severely limit your market (even smaller than the PC Linux gamer market with is already tiny). Something else to keep in mind is that Sony waited 2 years from the PS2 launch before releasing the Linux kit. If they do a similar thing this time, that means you won't even get your hands on the PS3 Linux kit until 2008. Seriously, forget about the PS Linux kit...it is a complete waste of your time.

Will there ever be a PS3 version of TSE? We honestly have no way to answer that...it is still too early in the ballgame. Would we like for there to be a PS3 version of TSE? Of course! Is it possible for us to port TSE to the PS3? Sure! The PS3 isn't all that different capability/architecture-wise from the Xbox 360 and once we have an OpenGL version of TSE (which will happen) then it isn't a hard step to do a PS3 version of TSE (if we ever lay hands on a PS3 dev kit).

Honestly though, unless you have a completed game or a nearly completed game it is a waste of your time to even wonder about the possibilities of getting on a console. For an indie to make it onto a console, they have to prove themselves in the PC downloadable space *first* and most of the people getting up in arms in this thread are years away from being able to do that. It is fun to dream about getting your game on a console but if you are still dreaming about finishing a game at all then what is the point?

If you are really interested in getting your games on a console then get a copy of TSE and build your game on a high-end PC with a console-like controller. By the time you are finished, the tech to port your game to the console of your choice should be solid and easy to work with (nearly transparent if you work within the abstractions built into the engine). Working with T2D is also a good route onto consoles ;)

Let's get back to making games guys!

#50 An email I sent out last night:

Greetings to you all at Nintendo of America,

I am the lead game designer for an indie game developer... but I'm not here to push my own projects. I'm here to pose a question and hopefully get some action on your part.

Microsoft has, with the Xbox and Xbox360, embraced indie developers, and it has helped their mindshare at least in the US as I know many people who got Xbox360s for the ability to download indie developed games available from Xbox Arcade. I would love for Nintendo to do embrace indie developers as well, especially since the indie market is more likely to take a chance with your revolutionary controller than the more mainstream publishers and developers who have to worry about crossplatform games (which have historically sold better on competing consoles (though there are a few exceptions), hence why you get so few 3rd party games by comparison).

There is a barrier to this happening however, it is a problem very easily fixed by you. Indie developers are usually short on staff but big on ideas and ambition. With the smaller development teams, maybe you guys should look into getting something like the Torque engine on the Revolution... Torque is one of the leading engines used by indie developers, and they will not turn you down as Garage Games (the developers of the Torque Game Engine, Torque Shader Engine, and the Torque 2d Engine) have said "When Nintendo supports indies, we'll be there too." (Pat Wilson, GG Employee) and even said in public interviews that "We would love to see this happen [Torque on Revolution]. While we don't have anything to announce in this area, you can look at how we have been expanding the reach of our Torque technologies and see that we are dedicated to helping bring great technologies at great prices to many platforms." (Jeff Tunnel, GG Founder to RevolutionReport.com).

In my honest opinion, if you want something revolutionary to happen, you are going to need the games, and the developers to back you in large numbers so people have no choice but to get a Revolution. Because lets face it, you are no longer the market leaders, and to truly revolutionize the industry you need one of two things. Either a #1 position in terms of market share, or a vast library that forces people to buy your console to play games, and sadly, I don't think Nintendo's stellar games are going to be able to pull in the numbers as they did in ages past. They are great, but when I look at NPD sales and see not one nintendo game in the top 10, as I have on plenty of occasions during this past generation, it gives me the sens that Nintendo's piece of the pie is shrinking.

I hope you will open the doors of Revolution to us smaller indie developers, we have many ideas across many genres and many platforms. Some examples are: Tube Twist (GG, Mac/Win) and Marble Blast (GG, PC/Mac/Linux/Xbox Arcade, (possibly for Rev if you get Torque on it)), Lore: Dark Horizons (GG, PC)), Crystal Shores (wip, PC (hoping for Rev)), Orb (wip, PC/Mac (hoping for rev))... and many other like Biyu Biyu Rocket (PC, Dreams In Motion), Glider (Dreams in Motion, PC), Memory Cube (FourX, PC).

I would like to extend my thanks to you for reading this letter, and I hope to see some action on your part, as it could benifit a great deal of developers, and youselves, quite a bit. I know many developers out there, my team included, who would jump at the chance to work on a Nintendo console. I only hope that you give them such a chance by securing technology that can help them to succeed.

Sincerely,
Greg Szemiot
Director, Lead Game Designer
Crossbeam Studios Entertainment
http://www.CrossbeamStudios.com

#51 With the capabilities of consoles pretty much being on par with each other, it's all going to come down to games. The content is what drives the sales for the games. If PS3 or XBOX 360 have the most console specific titles that are good, they will be the higher seller. I bought PS2 just to play Tekken 5, and thats it. Any other game that has come out for PS2 only I've not been interested in. If a game has come out for both consoles, then I bought it for XBOX because my library was already built on that.

With the XBOX Live Arcade, this opens a HUGE amount of XBOX 360 specific games, and as that catalog grows and grows it will just get better and better with a big amount of XBOX 360 only games. This is kind of what the Revelotion will be doing with their back catalog. You're not going to find Actraiser 1 and 2 on the XBOX and PS3, only the Rev.

Sort of like how PS2 closed a huge gap with getting grand Theft Auto as a PS2 exclusive, while it was a huge seller. That probobly drove lots of people to purchase PS2 because they really wanted to play the game, and it was the only way they could. But once the agreement disolved, GTA game out on xbox, and PS2 hardware related sales driven by GTA probobly slowed down a lot.

As for indie developers, XBOX Live Arcade is going to be great because you dont have to worry about boxing up your games. Granted, I don't know if PS3 will be doing something like this, but it would be cool if they did!

#52 NOTE: I had this written but unposted before Matt Fairfax replied :) I didn't see his until now, I agree with everything he has said. I really doubt I'll get any game I make on a console in the near future. Well, unless someone hacks the 360 like the XBox was, but I really doubt that! :)

#53

Quote:Heh , your going on saying MS is soo indie friendly but you still have to take into acount that GG reputation and they have a past history of developing games and have a good track record with Marble Blast .

Quick rebuttal:

Did 21-6 have such a track record? No, they had one game, and yet landed a title on XBLA.

Don't mistake me for some MS cronie, I most certainly am not, although I'm not so blind that I can't see within the console market that Microsoft is the only company to have leveraged a platform that is not only friendly to independant titles, but that put's their money where there mouth is on the subject and publishes indy titles?

I need to stop before I wind up retreading Matt's post. =\

#54 I would be totally supportive of development for the revolution, especially with torque.

from the sound of what nintendo has been stating over the past 6 months, nintendo is focusing it's system on both consumer freindly and developer freindly. It has been stated that the system will sell for a very cheap price (most likely in the $100-$200 price range), and the dev kits will be sugnifficantly lower in price and easyer to access for developers.

I am currently learning how to program on the Game Boy Advance (and hopefully soon on the DS), and it seems that nintendo is very open minded to it's developers. Check out www.warioworld.com for details on developing for any of their systems (so far no details on the revolution yet).

as a side note: orbz on the Rev would be very very very good. The controller jsut sems like a fit perfectly.

#55 Nintendo is pretty picky with handing out development kits. On their site it even says "Keep in mind we are looking for established game developers" when you read about getting more info on obtaining a dev kit. Thats totally opposite of being indie-friendly, well to most indies. Even if it is easy to develop on, the chances of most of us that are making games and trying to get it on a Nintendo platform is low.

Not saying it couldn't happen, but given the info they provide on their site, its probably just better to shoot for XBLA if you think there is any chance of getting to a console. And, when I say console, I mean EVERY console including portables.

#56 Imagine a Live Arcade setup for PS3 that allowed gamers to download games to PSP in addition to playing on PS3. Rawr!

I hope Sony changes their minds about having a central online structure. I DO agree with being more open about online and allowing developers to CHOOSE to remain seperate from such a service I also think Sony would be missing out on so many potential opportunities, even beyond onine game distro, in the future by not enabling that possibility. Of course it probably wouldn't be something they couldn't fix down the road if they do eventually change their minds. Yeah I know they don't have the best track record for introducing change during a console's life cycle but we can always have faith that they have learned from past mistakes.

I do have a tiny glimmer of hope though. I wouldn't expect to hear much about indie support it in the next year though as I'm sure part of their strategy to top 360 is to ride this wave of technical superiority. Most can see it won't last.. eventually it will become clear that regardless of hardware differences games will look amazing good on both systems with very little difference between them.
(Actually I expect some 360 games to look better than PS3 games when they finally launch as it will have been out longer.) So until that bubble bursts they are only going to focus on putting out the highest quality software and graphics. If they have any intentions of supporting indie games we'll hear about it when the initial shock and awe of next gen graphics looses it's grip on the market and the focus can shift to content and original gameplay concepts.
I have heard the occasional non-descript comment that Sony would like to be a more open platform than before.. so maybe they actually mean something by that.

Speaking of being open. Obviously we have to admit that up until recently the console makers have NEVER been open to indie devs.. XBox is catching on but a couple years back the tables were actually switched. Microsoft was dictating standards to developers to ensure products stuck with the "XBox vision" while Sony was letting nearly anything onto their console.. for a price of course.
MS is opening up but also creating a divide at the same time. Don't get me wrong, Live Arcade is a giant step and a wonderful thing and I can't sing enough praises about what it could do for indies. On the other hand they are still dictating standards to developers working on "real" Xbox360 games and I'm sure making the leap from Arcade to translucent green DVD case is going to take a lot more than just financial backing. What I'm saying is that regardless of how cool, fun, popular and amazingly well designed your game may be, unless you have pixel shaders out the wazoo and big studio presentation values they aren't going to let you into the big boys club.

Finally I'd like to touch on Linux for PS3. Who knows what level of access it will give you to the system or what kinds of programs you could actually write for it, but if Ken Kutaragi can be trusted (heh, I'm skeptical too) Linux is supposed to ship with every HD. So if they can ACTUALLY sell the HD for PS3, unlike for PS2, there should be far more people out there with Linux on PS3 than the limited and expensive PS2 kits. All I'm saying is that this could potentially open up the platform to indie games.. of course whether or not there could be a market there at all will depend on Sony's willingness to allow people to openly sell their PS3-Linux games.

#57 You know, i remember a while back. When PS2 first came out within a few months. There came some game hack thing, and the remote controls that upgraded the firmwire in the PS2 to add new support. Maybe? Just Maybe? If sony doesn't create a live arcade someone else will?

#58 If you would port TSE to PS3 yourself for a game, and could get the game published, what would that mean licencewise? GG side I mean, I am aware of Sony's conditions and hoops.
Just curious.

#59 The EULA states that you can not buy Torque and port it to any platform other than what you have licenced it for without approval from GarageGames.

#60 I am more concerned about just finishing my game on the PC. When that happens, and if people like it, then I'll worry about the closed systems.