T2D 1.1 development transparency

#1 The same here :(

#2 Agreed. (I don't think I'll be buying an early adopter release again)

#3 Use multimedia fusion or flash for 2d development :)

just kidding ;) i've also got the early adopter release and i'm eagerly awaiting any new info on the status of the product. not looking for a release since i'm a firm believer in 'when it's done,' but a monthly update with a couple screenshots would be kind of nice :) also, it's just a hobby for me. was worth the money just to have something new to play around with :)

#4 At IGC they said it would be just a few weeks. They just needed to merge the code, fix some bugs and package it up.
My question is:
Are there really that many bugs, are they submitting to scope creep for this release, or is the whole thing just that dependant on Melv's time?


I'm still moving forward with my projects on the current code base for now and am not basing it off the upcoming release, but it would be really nice to be able to get some of the new features and tools. :)

#5 T2d Prision riot!!

JK.. they said it was weeks not months... so I would guess we will see it by end of year.

#6 I think I will give up on waiting...

I know some people have the newest versions of T2D.... How do I become one of those people?

#7 I think to be one of those people you have to be worthy of being an associate. Which is rightfully a very difficult thing to achieve and I hope to get there eventually.

As an aside, at the Torque Boot Camp after IGC I had some questions on profiling and using profilerMarkerEnable in script. I was also told I would be able to get a copy of 1.1 when they got the merge bugs worked out which shouldn't take very long. A month and 2 emails later I haven't gotten any response to my questions. I did send it from my gmail account and I've heard that some people have problems sending email to there. Josh, if that's the case then could I please get a response to my home email: TOgburn@austin.rr.com. If you have problems receiving from gmail, let me know and I'll resend it from home.

#8 We wanted (and still want) to package up a release of T2D 1.1 as a beta. However, I wanted this to be based on the TGE 1.4 codebase, since it has a bunch of cool new stuff and will affect (slightly) the way you work with Torque 2D. I would *like* the 1.1 beta to be as compatible as possible with the actual release of T2D 1.1, so that you guys don't have to adjust your codebases twice. However, since TGE 1.4 is taking longer than we expected to finalize, this has delayed the T2D 1.1 beta.

As such, if you guys want, we could package up the beta as-is (TGE 1.3 codebase) and just put it out there for testing so you can get a feel for it. Know of course that there are incomplete features, outstanding bugs, and that when we do finally merge with 1.4, there will be some changes to the way you work with T2D 1.1 versus the 1.1 beta.

If everyone is cool with that, we could packge this thing up and hopefully have it out here in the next week. The final release is still close by, but I can't give a totally solid estimate until TGE 1.4 is released and we've had some time for it to breath.

I am being very open and honest here about the development status, so I hope it comes across the right away. If you guys are just anxious to see an update, that's cool. We can package up what we have now, I think it's in a fine enough state for that. However, if we do so, I would be loathe to hear later complaints about incompatibility with the full release of 1.1, incomplete features in the beta, or outstanding bugs. Bug reports and performance reports are totally cool though, and would be very much appreciated.

#9 I think that's a good idea. I would be happy to help finding bugs if I can play around with the new code.

#10 I understand the position you are in... and it is a tough one, because as I mentioned before, listening to the juvenile whines and complaints of some people that don't understand how rough running beta software can be. I would be happy (as I'm sure many of my fellow community members would be too) to remind such folks that 1.1 is Beta and bugs are expected. I'd be equally happy to help reenforce that T2D 1.02 has now shipped several titles, so users looking for stability should remain there.

That said, I was eager to join the early adopter in order to "be on the inside" and have early access and to be able to provide feedback and suggestions. I suspect that most users have stopped doing this because we all know that T2D 1.02 "barely resembles" 1.1, as Melv has frequently said. I'd like to encourage you to please package up 1.1 as it currently exists, even if there will still be incompatibilities with the final 1.1 on TGE 1.4. If nothing else, you will get a lot more testing on your bits and I suspect this will help you figure out how to get 1.1 out the door faster than without the feedback. You are basically going to get a lot more compatibility and edge case testing right away.

As I said, you will get some people that just don't understand what "beta" means and will whine and complain, but for those of us that are a little more mature, you will get a lot of (hopefully) good feedback and suggestions. In the end, one of the biggest values of GG is the community and you are just not getting as much out of this EA community as you could. We'd love to help... so please tap into our potential and release the beta!

#11 I agree with the "being on the inside" sentiment. That's how I wanted it to be too, to be honest. However, when it came down to it, we had to make some pretty sweeping changes, which would've made it difficult for us to do smaller, incremental updates. Also, we've tried to cram a ton of new functionality, fixes, and improvments in... and even though in a beta release we can get away with letting stuff slip through much more so than in a full release, it still takes a lot of time to package things up, put them out on the site, and communicate clearly about what's changed, what problems presently exist, etc. Given how ardent everyone has been to see new features, see problems fixed, etc, we often made the choice to just focus our time on development, rather than packaging up and releasing incremental updates.

That said, we probably have gone too far to one side here, and I definitely recognize that. That's why we wanted to do this beta release in the first place. Would like to get you "on the inside" again... it's long overdue!

Anyway, I appreciate you guys being willing (and even eager!) to see the beta, even if it will be incomplete and buggy. :) You guys are cool. If it continues to sound like everyone is onboard with this plan, we will get this thing packaged up and out the door.

Another couple notes: the Mac and Linux versions of 1.1 beta won't be up to speed with Windows just yet. Again, our mainline OS X and Linux devs have been busy with TGE 1.4, so T2D 1.1 hasn't gotten full love on all the important platforms just yet (but it is next on the list after 1.4 ships). Also, we presently have some wonky, wonky issues with D3D (and actually, having the beta out there so we can have people help us track these problems down would be a great relief for us :). I just wanted to make these couple notes so that expectations are set appropriately! :)

#12 Oh boy have you guys asked for it now... ;)

On top of this, I actually meant to get a larger-than-life plan up this weekend but T2D dev combined with a sickly daughter made grabbing screenshots and movies impossible. Irresepective of a T2D beta 1.1 release, I'll get that damn plan out.

- Melv.

#13 I'd like to get my hands on what's been added, bugs or not. Even without a detailed list of what's been added or installers.... Just a zip with the updated source code is good enough for me. I can figure out what I need to from there.

#14 Agreed Chris, just the bare-bones beta is perfectly fine with me as I'd also like to give a hand with debugging and testing! The more feedback we can give right now to Josh, Melv and team, the better off everyone will be!:)

#15 >Linux versions of 1.1 beta won't be up to speed with Windows just yet.

You guys should really drop me a line if it's T2D linux goodness you need.

#16 Groovy, i like the thought of a 1.1b using the tge 1.3 bits. Why? because that least me migrate t2d.net to t2d 1.1 without having to deal with the unicode (tge 1.4) changes. This will let me work out any bugs with my codegen tools and then deal with unicode conversion later.

Look forward to it!

-J

#17 "That said, I was eager to join the early adopter in order to "be on the inside" and have early access and to be able to provide feedback and suggestions. I suspect that most users have stopped doing this because we all know that T2D 1.02 "barely resembles" 1.1, as Melv has frequently said. I'd like to encourage you to please package up 1.1 as it currently exists, even if there will still be incompatibilities with the final 1.1 on TGE 1.4."

I couldn't agree more. I'd love to see an early version released, even if it's buggy and incomplete. I am currently using T2D for creating prototypes, hoping both to hit my next great idea and learn the engine at the same time. Therefore, the bugs won't affect me, and the fact that the codebase will have to change is not a big deal to me either (like I said, just prototypes).

I'd suggest, though, making sure that the download page is clear about the bugginess, so that people who are wanting stability can continue to download 1.02.

#18 So be it. :) Watch here for updates.

#19

Quote:
I think I will give up on waiting...

Is it too late to take that back? I'm waiting again :) Great news.

#20

Quote:So be it. :) Watch here for updates.

Yes master Windu .... well it sounds like something he would say. I guess Melv is playing Yoda for this episode.

:)