3dsmax bug
by Neil Marshall · in Artist Corner · 02/19/2002 (1:02 pm) · 9 replies
I've run into a bug in 3dsmax and I'm wondering if anyone here knows of a workaround.
I've created my player model. I then split it up into dozens of objects and texturemapped each one using 1 of 2 texturemaps (One for the body, one for the face). Now, when I join all the objects back into one and merge the textures into one multi-sub texture everything LOOKS fine. I save and quit, load max up again and reload the file and all my texturemaps are messed. The characters face is stretched over the torso, yet the face, arms and legs all look fine still.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get around the bug?
I've created my player model. I then split it up into dozens of objects and texturemapped each one using 1 of 2 texturemaps (One for the body, one for the face). Now, when I join all the objects back into one and merge the textures into one multi-sub texture everything LOOKS fine. I save and quit, load max up again and reload the file and all my texturemaps are messed. The characters face is stretched over the torso, yet the face, arms and legs all look fine still.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get around the bug?
#2
I painstaikenly went through and messed with every vertex while setting up the uvw coords using uvw unwrap.
"Did you happen to perform a weld on the verticies after you joined the meshes together?"
Yes. I selected everything and welded everything that was closer than 0.001cm. What ever was left over I manually selected and collapsed.
Why I say it was a bug is because before I quit, it displayed properly. Only after I saved, exited, and reloaded max did the mapping problems show up. It happened to me 2 times. Thank god I have 135 backups (I use the little + a lot).
I did manage to work around the bug though. I loaded up the version of the mesh that was fully attached but with messed up mapping coords. I added an edit mesh, and chose select face. Mysteriously it already had the messed up polygons selected. All I had to do was change the sub map from 1 to 2 and then back to 1 again. I saved, quit, loaded max and opened it and presto, everything worked again.
I still don't understand why when it says it's using material 1 it's actually using sub material 2. That screams bug to me.
"Also, why are you detaching polygons on your model to do the mapping and then re-attaching them? It looks like a big waste of time to me since there are faster ways of producing multi/sub-object materials (that don't potentially create holes in your mesh)"
The reason I did it that way was sometimes I had to go back and adjust some of the uvw coords on the front of the person to line up with the coords on the back of the person. And sometimes I had to make small modifications to the mesh while I was texturemapping. Having them all separated made it easier than using the Hold function. Also, I was origionally doing it all on one stack and I turned one of the edges on the characters face... that screwed up the uvw mapping above it.
02/19/2002 (2:46 pm)
"I don't mean to be rude, but are you certain that it's a problem with the program and not the user? Are you sure that you setup the UVW texture coordinates correctly and that there have been no changes to your material? "I painstaikenly went through and messed with every vertex while setting up the uvw coords using uvw unwrap.
"Did you happen to perform a weld on the verticies after you joined the meshes together?"
Yes. I selected everything and welded everything that was closer than 0.001cm. What ever was left over I manually selected and collapsed.
Why I say it was a bug is because before I quit, it displayed properly. Only after I saved, exited, and reloaded max did the mapping problems show up. It happened to me 2 times. Thank god I have 135 backups (I use the little + a lot).
I did manage to work around the bug though. I loaded up the version of the mesh that was fully attached but with messed up mapping coords. I added an edit mesh, and chose select face. Mysteriously it already had the messed up polygons selected. All I had to do was change the sub map from 1 to 2 and then back to 1 again. I saved, quit, loaded max and opened it and presto, everything worked again.
I still don't understand why when it says it's using material 1 it's actually using sub material 2. That screams bug to me.
"Also, why are you detaching polygons on your model to do the mapping and then re-attaching them? It looks like a big waste of time to me since there are faster ways of producing multi/sub-object materials (that don't potentially create holes in your mesh)"
The reason I did it that way was sometimes I had to go back and adjust some of the uvw coords on the front of the person to line up with the coords on the back of the person. And sometimes I had to make small modifications to the mesh while I was texturemapping. Having them all separated made it easier than using the Hold function. Also, I was origionally doing it all on one stack and I turned one of the edges on the characters face... that screwed up the uvw mapping above it.
#3
You re-adjust UVW coordinates when you do this. This could be one possible reason why your UVW coordinates are going wacky on you.
Are you certain that a veiwport update was performed after you did this operation (press the 1 key to update your viewports)?
You must have some mysterious version of Max then. As long as you have a multi/sub-object material applied to your mesh. Face ID numbers will display the material in the corresponding material ID channel. If you have a non-multi/sub-object material applied to a mesh that has mutiple ID numbers on faces it will apply this material across all of the faces.
This definately isn't a bug with the software.
Logan
02/19/2002 (3:09 pm)
Quote:"Yes. I selected everything and welded everything that was closer than 0.001cm. What ever was left over I manually selected and collapsed.
You re-adjust UVW coordinates when you do this. This could be one possible reason why your UVW coordinates are going wacky on you.
Quote:Why I say it was a bug is because before I quit, it displayed properly.
Are you certain that a veiwport update was performed after you did this operation (press the 1 key to update your viewports)?
Quote:I still don't understand why when it says it's using material 1 it's actually using sub material 2. That screams bug to me.
You must have some mysterious version of Max then. As long as you have a multi/sub-object material applied to your mesh. Face ID numbers will display the material in the corresponding material ID channel. If you have a non-multi/sub-object material applied to a mesh that has mutiple ID numbers on faces it will apply this material across all of the faces.
This definately isn't a bug with the software.
Logan
#4
I have never had problems like this.
If you are working with the uv-unwrapper, collapse the stack back down to an editable mesh after you edit it.
Also, you can save out the a UVW file. I ususally save out a UVW file and collapse the stack.
If you try to edit the mesh below a uv-unwrap modifier, you are most likley going to screw up the un-wrap. This is not a bug, this is just the way UV coordinates work.
Collapse the stack first and add a new uv-unwrap on top of it.
If I could see the max file, I could get a better idea of what you are talking about.
As it is, I would suspect that it is something you are doing in the max file and not a bug, as I have never had any problems with the UVs going wacky in MAX.
I am not going to discount the possibility that it is a bug (god knows MAX has several hundred thousand), but I have never experienced this, and it might be a workflow issue.
02/19/2002 (4:45 pm)
I don't understand how you are doing what you are doing buy the description of what you are doing.I have never had problems like this.
If you are working with the uv-unwrapper, collapse the stack back down to an editable mesh after you edit it.
Also, you can save out the a UVW file. I ususally save out a UVW file and collapse the stack.
If you try to edit the mesh below a uv-unwrap modifier, you are most likley going to screw up the un-wrap. This is not a bug, this is just the way UV coordinates work.
Collapse the stack first and add a new uv-unwrap on top of it.
If I could see the max file, I could get a better idea of what you are talking about.
As it is, I would suspect that it is something you are doing in the max file and not a bug, as I have never had any problems with the UVs going wacky in MAX.
I am not going to discount the possibility that it is a bug (god knows MAX has several hundred thousand), but I have never experienced this, and it might be a workflow issue.
#5
Yes. I worked on it and saved 3 backups before quitting. The viewport was definatly refreshed.
"As long as you have a multi/sub-object material applied to your mesh. Face ID numbers will display the material in the corresponding material ID channel. If you have a non-multi/sub-object material applied to a mesh that has mutiple ID numbers on faces it will apply this material across all of the faces. "
When I attached the pieces of the mesh together, max created the multi-sub material by itself because of the options I chose. I even went into the material editor and got the material from the scene to look at it.
When I said I had to take it off of 1 set it to 2 and then back to 1 again I wasn't entirly correct. The textbox on the side was blank. When I load up the messed version of the model and click Edit Mesh->Face, it selects all of the faces that are messed up all by itself. The faces are on the chest and a couple on the arm for some reason. The Material id textbox is blank. If I press up it sets itself to 2. If I reload and press down instead of up it sets itself to 1, so it's as if these faces got their material id removed somehow.
"I have never had problems like this. "
I always run into problems like this. Not with max though, usually with other programs, which is why my last company stuck me on QA testing at one point. Bugs are attracted to me.
I've walked up to computers before and they crashed. It's happened more than once.
"If you try to edit the mesh below a uv-unwrap modifier, you are most likley going to screw up the un-wrap. This is not a bug, this is just the way UV coordinates work."
I know this isn't a bug. This is why I split up the model into pieces, so I don't have to bother with a huge stack.
"I have never had any problems with the UVs going wacky in MAX. "
The uvw coords didn't go wacky, it was the material id. It's just that it started happening after I joind the multiple pieces together and told max to merge the 2 materials together.
The stack reads:
Edit Mesh
Unwrap UVW
UVW Mapping
Editable Mesh
Check out what was happening
http://www.eightlines.com/neil/girl.png
But as I said, selecting the faces and reassigning the material id's fixed the problem.
02/19/2002 (6:28 pm)
"Are you certain that a veiwport update was performed after you did this operation (press the 1 key to update your viewports)? "Yes. I worked on it and saved 3 backups before quitting. The viewport was definatly refreshed.
"As long as you have a multi/sub-object material applied to your mesh. Face ID numbers will display the material in the corresponding material ID channel. If you have a non-multi/sub-object material applied to a mesh that has mutiple ID numbers on faces it will apply this material across all of the faces. "
When I attached the pieces of the mesh together, max created the multi-sub material by itself because of the options I chose. I even went into the material editor and got the material from the scene to look at it.
When I said I had to take it off of 1 set it to 2 and then back to 1 again I wasn't entirly correct. The textbox on the side was blank. When I load up the messed version of the model and click Edit Mesh->Face, it selects all of the faces that are messed up all by itself. The faces are on the chest and a couple on the arm for some reason. The Material id textbox is blank. If I press up it sets itself to 2. If I reload and press down instead of up it sets itself to 1, so it's as if these faces got their material id removed somehow.
"I have never had problems like this. "
I've walked up to computers before and they crashed. It's happened more than once.
"If you try to edit the mesh below a uv-unwrap modifier, you are most likley going to screw up the un-wrap. This is not a bug, this is just the way UV coordinates work."
I know this isn't a bug. This is why I split up the model into pieces, so I don't have to bother with a huge stack.
"I have never had any problems with the UVs going wacky in MAX. "
The uvw coords didn't go wacky, it was the material id. It's just that it started happening after I joind the multiple pieces together and told max to merge the 2 materials together.
The stack reads:
Edit Mesh
Unwrap UVW
UVW Mapping
Editable Mesh
Check out what was happening
http://www.eightlines.com/neil/girl.png
But as I said, selecting the faces and reassigning the material id's fixed the problem.
#6
Also, if you are letting MAX match material IDs to the material, it will modify the material IDs of the model.
Which option did you choose when you attached the faces?
Check the faces individually and not as a selection and see if they are the material IDs you think they are.
I still don't quite understand what you are doing or why you are doing it this way, but I am 99% sure this is not a bug but in the way you are working with the tool.
The solution is to not work the way you are working if you don't want to experience this problem.
Based on what you are saying, it seems you don't really understand the way the data flow in MAX works, or how mapping or UVs really work.
The fix is to collapse the stack. If you are editing a mesh, it will screw up the UVs if you try to keep the stack intact. Just collapse it down and edit it (turn edges and such) and it will not destroy your UVs.
If you are trying to edit the mesh whilst trying to retain the mapping information applied by the UV map by not getting rid of the UV map modifier above the editable mesh above it, then you are using poor process. If you edit the mesh, you are changing it, and thus changing the mesh and altering it's data flow upstream. This is not a bug, it is the way MAX works.
02/19/2002 (7:39 pm)
The reason the box is blank in the material ID is that you probably have multiple material IDs applied to that selection. When you push it up and put it back down, you are reassigning the material ID.Also, if you are letting MAX match material IDs to the material, it will modify the material IDs of the model.
Which option did you choose when you attached the faces?
Check the faces individually and not as a selection and see if they are the material IDs you think they are.
I still don't quite understand what you are doing or why you are doing it this way, but I am 99% sure this is not a bug but in the way you are working with the tool.
The solution is to not work the way you are working if you don't want to experience this problem.
Based on what you are saying, it seems you don't really understand the way the data flow in MAX works, or how mapping or UVs really work.
The fix is to collapse the stack. If you are editing a mesh, it will screw up the UVs if you try to keep the stack intact. Just collapse it down and edit it (turn edges and such) and it will not destroy your UVs.
If you are trying to edit the mesh whilst trying to retain the mapping information applied by the UV map by not getting rid of the UV map modifier above the editable mesh above it, then you are using poor process. If you edit the mesh, you are changing it, and thus changing the mesh and altering it's data flow upstream. This is not a bug, it is the way MAX works.
#7
It's fixed. Lets just leave it at that.
02/20/2002 (10:25 am)
The problem had nothing to do with me working on a stack or anything. The problem had to do with max showing me one thing and saving another.It's fixed. Lets just leave it at that.
#8
Logan
02/20/2002 (11:50 am)
If you don't think that its you (and I highly doubt in this instance that its the software), then perhaps you have bad compontents in your system that is causing the data to goof up?Logan
#9
If both the head and your body had Material IDs of 1 , which they should ,( because you split them into 2 pieces they would have both been assigned ID 1 ), then when you attached them afterwards it applies one of the Maps to both objects . This happens all the time , when you are in a hurry or just been working to long , I speak from experience
when you join them after mapping them , it gives you 4 option , about merging material IDS , or replacing ,etc.. read that carefully and You may discover that thats was the problem . hope this helps and good luck
to the rest of you , lighten up on people when they ask questions , thats what forums are for and that is how we all get better
02/26/2002 (7:35 am)
What you experienced isnt a Torque problem my friend and I m glad you got it worked out.Just for future reference , I would like to suggest that you check when you rejoined your meshes after you split them apart and UVWed them , that you didnt accidentiley mess with their material ID numbers If both the head and your body had Material IDs of 1 , which they should ,( because you split them into 2 pieces they would have both been assigned ID 1 ), then when you attached them afterwards it applies one of the Maps to both objects . This happens all the time , when you are in a hurry or just been working to long , I speak from experience
when you join them after mapping them , it gives you 4 option , about merging material IDS , or replacing ,etc.. read that carefully and You may discover that thats was the problem . hope this helps and good luck
to the rest of you , lighten up on people when they ask questions , thats what forums are for and that is how we all get better
Associate Logan Foster
perPixel Studios
I don't mean to be rude, but are you certain that it's a problem with the program and not the user? Are you sure that you setup the UVW texture coordinates correctly and that there have been no changes to your material? Did you happen to perform a weld on the verticies after you joined the meshes together?
My best recommendation is that perhaps you could host the file somewhere so that we can take a look at it and have a better idea of what you did wrong (this would be a lot better than throwing suggestions out into the wind)?
Also, why are you detaching polygons on your model to do the mapping and then re-attaching them? It looks like a big waste of time to me since there are faster ways of producing multi/sub-object materials (that don't potentially create holes in your mesh)
Logan