MilkShape 3D Users Feedback Request

#1 I've not seen Shaper before, I'm a fairly experienced Milkshape user,

The weakest parts of Milkshape for Torque users has to be the Animation. It's a royal pain in the arse to try to make animation sequences. I had to write a tool so I could work on each animation seperately and then merge all of the models together.

If your tool allows for multiple animations to be worked on for a single mesh, I'll be happy. ...as long as modelling was as simple as Milkshape.


Personally, I like the simplicity of Milkshape. Initially frustrating, I can now make pretty much any shape I want.


The built in UVW mapping system leaves a lot to be desired though so I use Ultimate Unwrap 3D... which is an excellent tool.


I know a tool that would be very useful indeed.... An animation Generator.. Run cycles, Walk cycles, Jump, Duck.. using preset animations with parameterazed modifiers.. If you could write that... I'd be your best mate. ;-) and so would most of the community I reckon.

#2 What Jason said, especially the last paragraph.

#3 Seems to be a pretty nice tool

#4 Pretty much what Jason said. I switched over from Milkshape to Blender mainly because of Milkshapes horrible weaknesses with UV mapping and animation.

#5 Erminds me of this thing icculus.org/freyja/

#6 Things that would make your program better than milkshape...

1) Linux & mAc version

Use opengl with wxwindows or why not use torque for gui and opengl?

If you use torque then your program could sell copies on Linux, and those other oses like: mAc,wIndos <- 3 os markets one code base.

If you think about it you would have no competition on Linux where on wIndos I have sooo many choices to buy someone else's stuff: lightwave,maya,3dsmax,gamespace,truespace,milkshape,softimage 3d|xsi,blender,animation master,body paint....and on and on...

2) create a new model format for torque. Call it dts-ex - extended dts - write data in plain ascii or xml text files. Be able to import it back into your program - Kick down the source code so that people could load this text format model in torque. Torque DTS feels like a one way road - this text format would allow people to mess with their numbers and bring it back and forth and other good stuff. Users could freeze their models by having the option to export to .dts when they feel the model is "finished".


work really well with torque and it will be a way better program than milkshape where things are hacks to get in to torque.

be able to numeric modify everywhere - vertex, uv coordinate, triangle vertex list... etc

have built in support/edit for torque collision mesh - visible on/off -

have built in support/editor for torque LOD meshes - playback with user controlled speed by have the model far away and then bring it close up and have model start up close and then move far away

Be able to write out DSQs, import/playback/editor

IFL material support/export/edit

3) support/editor for animation of UV coordinates (from
http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=5281)
>>To simulate tank treads, you may want to look into animating the UV coordinates of the treads. I understand that is how BraveTree did it for >>ThinkTanks. Unfortunately, LightWave 7.5 doesn't support the animation of UV coordinates, so it's not in the LW Exporter.


bone editor where you can modify which vertex belong to which bone ( also by triangle )
select vertex to add to bone by box or sphere - add which ever vertex is inside the sphere or box when i press the add to bone key
keyboard edit rotation of the bone selection box on x/y/z like insert/delete is for x inc/dec and home/end is for y inc/dec ,page up and page dn is for z increase and z decrease
increase/decrease size of selection sphere with +/- on far right side of keyboard
press F12 to switch keyboard input to bone edit mode


bone tree viewer where i could keyboard up and down and the currently hilighted bone will have it's vertices colored red(or some user defined color) and the rest are colored green.

vertex dialog which lists:
vertex 34 : bone "upperleftarm"
vertex 35 : bone "upperleftarm"
vertex 36 : bone "upperleftarm"
The currently hilighted vertex line will mean that the 3d view paints that vertex red and the rest green
so I can also change a single misplaced vertex by changing the name of the bone on the list
up/down arrow so I can speedily check vertices


4) If you wanted to be really unique, have a fullscreen 3d single/quad view and transparently place your numeric/user input dialogs on top of the 3d view so I get a maxed 3d view all the time and also the ability to mess with options on the fly.

#7 Whoops:

the vertex dialog should really be:
vertex 33 : x: 30.34 y: 34.23 z:5434.23 u:0.4 v:0.7 bone:"upperLeftArm"

#8 Place all the dts texure properties like reflection, opacity, etc., on a single interface panel. I've heard it before and have to agree a user should not have to click more than twice to access a feature. That alone would make me happy.

#9 Simple 2 bone IK

#10 I really tried to use Shaper, but it kept crashing my machine badly and I never got it to work correctly, sorry. Hope development is further along. I have not many issues with Ms3d, as I've gotten it to do quite a few things.This is some of what I've been able to do with it, not even being a programmer......

what I'd like to see in a product to eclipse ms3d:

-some better Node rotation controller. Selecting a Joint and then using the Viewport/mouse for manipulation, is not precise enough[can't really see the orientation of the Joint in it's functioning view]. Using the buttons for minute values is wanky, clicking a button over and over. I want to see a dedicated slider control for each vector of the current Node in selection.

-a savable format to be able to bring segments or sequences into the Scene[like .BIPs, or .SMDs for example] without setting keyframes for each frame.

#11 Thanks for the feedback.

A Mac and Linux version of Shaper will be released after 1.0. Qt and OpenGL have been used and this has been the intention from the beginning.

As anyone who downloads and tries Shaper knows - multiple animations and the exporting and importing of DSQ files are supported.

It would be fun to add IK now but I really need to focus on getting 1.0 out. IK will definitely be available post 1.0.

The most useful feedback would be to have an existing MilkShape user actually try Shaper with the possibility of switching if it is deemed worth while. If the switch is not deemed worth while let me know the specific stumbling block(s). Such as "specific feature 'blah' is missing" or "it is too annoying the way 'blah' works".

#12 Well, I couldn't even get it to run... missing some msvc7 dll or something... (from memory)
There's a similar issue on the Shaper forum with a WinME machine (I run 98) and the reply was that the DLL was now shipped with the app... but it's not in the version I downloaded from the site. I know this isn't the sort of feedback you're after, but it has to be addressed before I can even consider switching from Milkshape.

#13 Some stuff:

debug dlls missing = m$vc*.dll
tab order not correct and missing tab stops for some editboxes
ms3d export crashes app

when you click vertex create button and put some verts and then attempt to select by triangle it seems like you app still wants to place verts.
(same issue with create bone)

mru list shows ninja.shp but i don't have any ninja* files

feedback:

I loaded jill and it was much easier on the eyes vs loading in milkshape

#14 @Jason I have the same problem it says that the DLL are missing.

#15 I get the same error, it says missing MSVCP71D.dll was not found. Now there is a msvcp71.dll, so maybe there's a typo somewhere.

Hope it's an easy fix, I use Milkshape a lot, but would like to have something that's easier to import animations(DSQs) into Torque.

#16 You can usually find that Dll on microsoft's website. Next time, it should be included in the installer.

EDIT: Seems he's added it in, reinstall it if you got yours a while back. More info here: www.inversesoftware.com/smf/index.php?topic=3.0

#17 Sorry people. The DLL issue slipped past my QA. Will be fixed within the next 12 hours. Thanks for letting me know about this.

#18 It's also missing msvcr71d.dll. These .dll's can easily be found at here.

Trying Shaper right now, will let you know what I think soon. ;)

[edit]
I got it working just fine, but it will take a long while before it can compete with Milkshape.

First of all, I placed background images, so that I had something to work off of. They were all inverted, the front image was upside down, the left image was also, and the top was as well.

Secondly, I imported a weapon from Milkshape, but I couldn't figure out how to rotate it in the perspective view.

My advice is to basically copy Milkshape, then add more to it. :)

#19 The DLL issue is now fixed.

Thanks for the feedback Willbkool. The background issue shall be fixed in the next version.

#20 Yeah, I'll gladly try just about any modeling package that will run in a stable fashion, not too worried about background images; as I usually put the image to a plane for referencing to allow me to hide it at will or move it out of the way.

More eclipsable features:

-pivot point relocation/orientation; this would allow me to scale my image plane[or anything for that matter] after I locate the feet of the image at world origin and have the origin remain there, this is one of better features of gameSpace[I know this is a ms3d targeted thread, but gS does a very good handshake with ms3d-cept for bones, :(]

I'll take another look at Shaper today and give some results

Rex

Works a little better, but has just now locked up my machine trying to rotate a bone....I got a dts shape imported with a sequence. I tried to add a new animation which worked but now I have to hard restart my box....pretty much the same issues I was having.

I can't see the bone I've selected since it's not highlighted

I can't figure out how to rotate a bone, the field input box schema ain't gonna work, same problem with ms3d. That's when it locked up my machine[this thing runs Max just fine...]

I can't tell what frame I'm in, there's no index in the slider track, and I can't tell where each frame begins/end, they seem to have this wide area between each frame??


I have to go uninstall it now, I can't have a program locking up my box so quickly.


Sorry, Alexander, Shaper has a long way to go...before I can test it again.