Advanced or Original book?

#1 I don't have TSE. I hope that someone who does will be able to respond.

I don't know how useful these books would be for you. If you are looking for info on the graphics, modelling, animating, and shader capabilities of TSE then you may be disappointed. If you are looking for general torque info then the books could be useful.

I would definately check out TDN for info on TSE materials, shaders, etc.

#2 I have both books and I enjoyed them both, depending on your level, they both have something to offer.

To be fair, the 1st book didn't teach me too much new stuff, it just reinforced my own observations so I was more confident that I was doing my work properly.

The 2d book touches on AI and more advanced scripting as well as making some neat effects like smashing windows.

The scripting resource at the back of each book is useful as are some of the explanations of technology and concepts. The AI explanation was quite good in the 2nd book and preached writing simple AI for a game rather than writing code to simulate the human brain.

On the graphics side, the books will show you how to get stuff into Torque, but depending on the tools you're using might limit its usefullness, the book spends a lot of time with Milkshape which was useful for me, but might not have as much relevance to a Max artist.

The 2nd book describes LOD fairly well, I was very fuzzy about the whole LOD thing, the book cleared it up for me.

Best bet, go into your local bookshop, find a copy and have a flick through see if there's anything in there you'd like to know in more detail.

#3 Thanks for the replies guys
Even though im *supposed* to just an artist I get the feeling that in small indie projects you end up being a jack of all trades :P so that was my main interest in these books as I think it couldn't hurt to know how to do some neat things with the engine besides just placing objects and assigning materials.

This has given me something to think about though so thanks again for the info

P.S LOD is also something I know little about and would like to learn more about the process so its good to know thats in there.

#4 I just posted my comments in a separate thread. Neither book is bad, but neither will really help you get the most out of TGE except from the graphical perspective - and of course by definition most of that discussion does not involve Torque product. The author assumes an FPS game where there is little depth beyond creative ways to sight and shoot (I'm not dissing FPS - just saying some of us want something else). If that's your direction both books will be adequate, even mandatory.

The AI section in the second book is lazy - most of the discussion is WIBNI ("Wouldn't It Be Nice If...") ending in non-helpful encouragement like "limited only by your imagination" while sharing nothing much more imaginative with us than a simple herd example. Where is my example of two NPCs interacting with each other? How do I snap-in minigames for things like crafts and events? How do I coordinate zone-wide reactions to world triggers?

Once you get past the walkthroughs of the in-game graphical tools the second book is more abstract than I expected. I don't need to be told my "imagination is the limit", instead I need to be told where in the product I go to do certain things intrinsic to a good game. Then I'll know how to put my imagination to work with Torque.

#5 ...finally !!!

thanks Dave!
I thought i am the only one who finds the mentioned books pretty worthless - and for Mac user it is unusable ( non working examples and files ) -
to much confusion for a beginner and too few real knowledge for the advanced!

still a good and extensive Doc with tutorials is needed ( although Torque 1.4 is a lot better!)

#6 Thanks guys! After so many thousands of satisfied customers, it was getting a little spooky not encountering anyone who had thought the books to be worthless, or lazy, or whatever.

#7 ...insulted ????

i expected something for a newbie, and the first part seemed to be, although it is confusing and the files do not work at all; so an extra burden for a complete beginner.....

after all that praisals i expected obviously to much; though i suppose, you could have done better...

Ken, it seems that you are soooo advanced, that you have lost the feeling and capabilities to write for Beginners!

sorry, just being honest

btw.

i am an author myself - in a different field - and i have evaluated quite a lot and rewritten many pages several times, so i know the work!

#8 Ken:

I have both books and I think they are great, especially for someone who is new to TGE, or TSE.

The first was basic, as was to be be expected, but at the same time, very helpful. I am not sad that it was not too basic, as commented by Rawi. I get sick of reading the syntax of language section in the beginning of every programming book. Look if it says advanced, leave that crap out. If it is too advanced for you, get another book, or go online.

I learned Torque from the forums, and online documentation. Unfortunately there is never one way to program, and it makes it hard to right about, sometimes the best you can do is explain the concept and walk through parts of it. I found myself it the same mind set when I was learning DirectX, always trying to find the magic code in a book. Write it yourself, its called programming, not plagiarism. Am not saying to not to borrow code, but write your own. If you only borrow, you will never write something of your own.

The second book is definately worth reading, about half way through. Expands on more complex topics, which is very nice.

Any plans another, I personally would love to see desktop reference to TorqueScript. Forums are helpful, but I don't care what the others say, I would like a book that outlines the commands. Sure they change, but let's be realistic all programming/scripting languages... Or we should at least hope.

Ok, turned into kind of a rant, bottom line. KEN Bravo, nice work, worth every penny. EVERYONE else, use the books and learn to write your powerful scripts for TGE.

#9 Hey Ken Long time no see mate, DR.EVIL~TAG here mate. Been working with torque a bit my self and have enjoyed your book greatly and when i get ahead a bit more i plan on getting the second one. Still mucking around with DF2 here and there with mods lol Nothin new in that departmend other than an old game going down hill still slowly. Drop me an email sometime when your not busy still in the service so you know how to find me lol,

Any how back to the book , Being a total noob like myself i found it very useful to getting started. Covers a little bit on each section that may be used in your game from basic scripting to the basic animation and item import, Theres alot more than that as well in it but why ruin the surprise. Only thing that may differ now is the basic demo that was shipped with it maybe, Compared to the new demos with the new 1.4 but other than that its a good starter for anyone.

#10 Any Plans for T2d and or TSE books? I'll buy :)

Thanks CERDIP.