How about a smaller TGE version
by Darren Stuart · in Torque Game Engine · 09/21/2005 (8:32 am) · 17 replies
I really like what I have seen with T2D and think this could be applied to a new 3D engine.
What am I getting at?
The TGE seems to have a lot of overhead if you just wanted to create a simple 3d game.
I think if the engine could work without the server side of things it would be cool (not sure if this is true as I don't have TGE).
Basically I would like a 3D version of T2D if that was possible.
anyone else like the idea of this.
it might be a nice stepping stone between T2D and TGE.
There is that other engine on here "reaction engine" but that seems really old and unsupported.
maybe they could take that engine and add TGE features to it like Torque script.
What am I getting at?
The TGE seems to have a lot of overhead if you just wanted to create a simple 3d game.
I think if the engine could work without the server side of things it would be cool (not sure if this is true as I don't have TGE).
Basically I would like a 3D version of T2D if that was possible.
anyone else like the idea of this.
it might be a nice stepping stone between T2D and TGE.
There is that other engine on here "reaction engine" but that seems really old and unsupported.
maybe they could take that engine and add TGE features to it like Torque script.
#3
09/21/2005 (9:01 am)
Thanks Rob, Not quite what I was thinking. I would like to be able to do a small game like aT2D game but in 3D.
#4
The Torque Game Engine is built to be a fully featured 3D game engine. You can't marry those two concepts.
09/21/2005 (9:40 am)
Torque 2D is made to be light and get you started quickly doing 2D games.The Torque Game Engine is built to be a fully featured 3D game engine. You can't marry those two concepts.
#5
maybe there just needs some more starter kits aimed at what I mean.
I would still like to see a lighter version where most things can be done in torque script
09/21/2005 (9:46 am)
I think you could. I also think your selling T2D short too.maybe there just needs some more starter kits aimed at what I mean.
I would still like to see a lighter version where most things can be done in torque script
#6
maybe there just needs some more starter kits aimed at what I mean.
I would still like to see a lighter version where most things can be done in torque script
09/21/2005 (9:53 am)
I think you could. I also think your selling T2D short too.maybe there just needs some more starter kits aimed at what I mean.
I would still like to see a lighter version where most things can be done in torque script
#7
10/06/2005 (10:45 am)
A small version of TGE would be awesome.. and it is defintely possible. 
#8
What do you mean by small? Light weight, with less funcitonality?
Or small as in download size? Basic Bob is less then 12 mb in its final version. How small did you want ?
EDIT: Most hings CAN be done in TS.
10/06/2005 (10:50 am)
How small are you talking? I dont understand what youre looking to achieve. T2D has pretty much the same stuff TGE does. It's just set up for a different urpose. What do you mean by small? Light weight, with less funcitonality?
Or small as in download size? Basic Bob is less then 12 mb in its final version. How small did you want ?
EDIT: Most hings CAN be done in TS.
#9
simple method defining the camera for the world
an engine that could be used for a puzzle game very simply
sandbox like engine that you can create any game and not have to convert the fps demo or driving one.
an engine that comes with a level design tool not just the world one (looking forward to seeing the new tool thats coming).
I don't think the networking etc is needed for a small engine.
10/06/2005 (12:03 pm)
Well the engine is quite taunting. here is a list of what I would want.simple method defining the camera for the world
an engine that could be used for a puzzle game very simply
sandbox like engine that you can create any game and not have to convert the fps demo or driving one.
an engine that comes with a level design tool not just the world one (looking forward to seeing the new tool thats coming).
I don't think the networking etc is needed for a small engine.
#10
However, you're list of features you want is quite vague.
Is that like Tetris and Klax then, or Bomberman and Pacman?
If you look at the fps and racing starter kits, you'll notice that TGE [bold]is[/bold] an engine where you can create any game. You don't have to convert the two starting kits. If you need another type of game, just make starting kits based on that.
If you mean an map editor like QuaRK then I agree, it would be nice with an interior-editor geared towards TGE.
If you want to make TGE "lighter" and more like T2D, then why strip networking? TGE's full networking is one of the major things people have been requesting for T2D. Also, what do you mean with "etc"? What else would you like to see stripped from TGE?
Maybe the added effort to get to learn TGE might be worth it, empowering you to implement your vision, rather than having more starter kits to mod?
--
Hans
10/06/2005 (12:48 pm)
I'm hoping you mean the engine is "daunting", and yes, I agree with you. It can be quite a difficult task to get acquainted with the engine, if you don't have any previous experience with a 3d game engine. Kenn Finney's book helps here.However, you're list of features you want is quite vague.
Quote:
an engine that could be used for a puzzle game very simply
Is that like Tetris and Klax then, or Bomberman and Pacman?
Quote:
sandbox like engine that you can create any game and not have to convert the fps demo or driving one.
If you look at the fps and racing starter kits, you'll notice that TGE [bold]is[/bold] an engine where you can create any game. You don't have to convert the two starting kits. If you need another type of game, just make starting kits based on that.
Quote:
an engine that comes with a level design tool not just the world one (looking forward to seeing the new tool thats coming).
If you mean an map editor like QuaRK then I agree, it would be nice with an interior-editor geared towards TGE.
Quote:
I don't think the networking etc is needed for a small engine.
If you want to make TGE "lighter" and more like T2D, then why strip networking? TGE's full networking is one of the major things people have been requesting for T2D. Also, what do you mean with "etc"? What else would you like to see stripped from TGE?
Maybe the added effort to get to learn TGE might be worth it, empowering you to implement your vision, rather than having more starter kits to mod?
--
Hans
#11
I take onboard what you have said and I have Kens book.
However I just think the engine is overly complicated and has a lot of features that a simple game engine does not need.
I would like an engine that you could pick up before moving onto TGE.
an example of this is with T2D you can add sprites and simply control them with the keys, As far I can see doing this with TGE is a lot more difficult.
I would like to setup a topdown camera system without having to buy a RTS Kit because I am not interested in RTS's.
I think people would ask for networking but for that they could just upgrade to it.
Also I would add a physics system.
I think that TGE is aimed at people wanting to 3rd person, first person games when there is so much more that could be done.
I have to admit I don't own TGE and maybe I should get it first. I do own T2d and love the simple way that it works and just feel that if you could have that with TGE it would be an ideal platform to jump into 3D.
10/06/2005 (1:14 pm)
Yeah I meant daughting :pI take onboard what you have said and I have Kens book.
However I just think the engine is overly complicated and has a lot of features that a simple game engine does not need.
I would like an engine that you could pick up before moving onto TGE.
an example of this is with T2D you can add sprites and simply control them with the keys, As far I can see doing this with TGE is a lot more difficult.
I would like to setup a topdown camera system without having to buy a RTS Kit because I am not interested in RTS's.
I think people would ask for networking but for that they could just upgrade to it.
Also I would add a physics system.
I think that TGE is aimed at people wanting to 3rd person, first person games when there is so much more that could be done.
I have to admit I don't own TGE and maybe I should get it first. I do own T2d and love the simple way that it works and just feel that if you could have that with TGE it would be an ideal platform to jump into 3D.
#12
The problem with stripping features out of TGE is reversing time and money
put into it. And maybe someone that needs a feature get's burned.
Like spalshdata in TSE.
10/06/2005 (1:50 pm)
With modern computers the overhead is what? ... not much..The problem with stripping features out of TGE is reversing time and money
put into it. And maybe someone that needs a feature get's burned.
Like spalshdata in TSE.
#13
10/06/2005 (2:31 pm)
Yeah but it would a different product so therefore if people wanted the features of TGE then they would just get TGE not the lighter version of it. I do not mean to start dropping features from TGE, I mean create simple version of TGE for beginners. 
#14
@Randy - SplashData... yes, agreed. I don't have the time to tackle it right now, but me or someone on the Renegades team will end up porting it, and when we do I promise we'll post it as a resource. We started with TGE and we used SplashData extensively and we don't really have the time to make the suggested "TSE optimized" effects system for all of our explosions, etc. Maybe someone else will beat us to it, but that's all good. By the end of the year, before MS4 is out, we'll have a ported SplashData :P
10/06/2005 (2:35 pm)
@Darren - The biggest problem is the things that you need stripped out to make your game might not be the things someone else could do without and vice versa. And then the things you need added might not be useful to someone else. You have to remember that there are hundreds if not thousands of other people out there making games using Torque. Racing games, flight simulators, RPG, RTS, MMO, single player, multi player... you name it, pretty much any genre out there is being implemented using Torque.@Randy - SplashData... yes, agreed. I don't have the time to tackle it right now, but me or someone on the Renegades team will end up porting it, and when we do I promise we'll post it as a resource. We started with TGE and we used SplashData extensively and we don't really have the time to make the suggested "TSE optimized" effects system for all of our explosions, etc. Maybe someone else will beat us to it, but that's all good. By the end of the year, before MS4 is out, we'll have a ported SplashData :P
#15
10/06/2005 (2:39 pm)
Removing networking altogether is a huge task, but whatever.
#16
i understand the reaosning though.. torque is daunting.. at first..
but it is quality.. most people complain about the lack of features they need..
i would take the ethos of just because its there doesnt mean you have to use it..
i would "leave be" what you dont actually need to change.. say networking or whatever..
ignore it! ...who knows you may use it in the future.. think of it as though it where airbag in a car or something.. "nice to know its there if you need it, though hopefully you never will"
10/06/2005 (3:59 pm)
Someone asking for less for their money.. now thats a new one on me..i understand the reaosning though.. torque is daunting.. at first..
but it is quality.. most people complain about the lack of features they need..
i would take the ethos of just because its there doesnt mean you have to use it..
i would "leave be" what you dont actually need to change.. say networking or whatever..
ignore it! ...who knows you may use it in the future.. think of it as though it where airbag in a car or something.. "nice to know its there if you need it, though hopefully you never will"
#17
-Ajari-
10/06/2005 (4:37 pm)
I personally agree with Darren. I have no idea how possible or easy it is to make TGE as simple as T2D seems to be, but I would certainly like it if someone found a way to do it. I have heard nothing but good things about T2D's ease of use and it seems like most peoples complaints about TGE is how difficult it is to do anything with it.-Ajari-
Torque Owner Robert Buckley