Licence issue

#1 Wheres it say you can't make simulations?

afaik, the only real difference between indie and commercial is how much your company makes per year.

#2 This, I think, is a pretty frequently asked question. Use the forum search function. It's powered by Google!

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Hans

#3 Http://www.garagegames.com/products/1
Hans i did a search, but none seems relavent to the question i am asking

#4 On the product page you posted the link for:

Quote:WHAT TYPES OF GAMES CAN I MAKE?

With the power and flexibility of Torque Game Engine, you can create First-Person Shooters, Role-playing Games, Racing Games, Adventure Games, Platformers, Space Games, War Games, Puzzle Games, Simulations, MMO Games and much more.

#5 But on the right hand side it says "are you Indie" then
1 you must be making a game (not a simulation, visualization or training program).

#6 There are Simulations and then there are Simulations.

You can have a simulation of F1 racing and football which are still really games. Then you can have simulations where you're modelling how people would react to a fire and try to leave the building. I imagine its the latter that would require a commercial licesnse. Where as the former is still a game, even if it's a realistically modelled game.

Just because your game models reality closely, so long as its still a game I think you'd be ok with the indie license. I would imagine a flight simulator would still be classed as a game, where as a flight simulator that has no game like play and was made with the intention of training pilots to fly would come under the latter definition of simulation and not be allowed under an indie license.

It really depends on which of the two "simulation" categories your project falls into imo.

But then again, I'm not a lawyer and just giving my interpretation. If in doubt, wait for an official response.

#7 Theres a difference between a 'Simulation' and a 'Simulation Game'

#8 What it really boils down to is gameplay. The aforementioned fire simulation has no gameplay. You can't sit down and play it. But in a racing game you can.

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Hans

#9 So im good to go with a say F1 racing simulation game?

#10 I'd say "probably". As long as the player is steering the car, and you can actually "win", then it's a game. If it's just a simulation with no user-input, no player controls. Just a bunch of cars going round a circuit, then it's pretty much a simulation.
Hate to say it, but one of my favorite games of all times SimLife, would probably not make the cut. Sure, there are scenarios you can, technically, "win". But there's not much gameplay. You basically make scenarios and watch stuff evolve.

Edit: Although, I'm not the final authority on this, mind you.

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Hans

#11 @Hans Sjunnesson
Even the creator of the Sim* series doesn't call them games. He calls them toys, because a game has an end goal, where a toy is played with and you create your own goals. That said, I can't imagine that a SimSomething style 'toy' would be forbidden by the license. Of course, like you, I'm not the final authority on it.

#12

Quote:F1 racing simulation game?

"game" is the key word here... if its a game for people to play then your good... The only for a game clause is mainly towards people doing commercial simulations... like if you were using this F1 racing simulation to train racers then it really is less of a game and more of a commercial simulation.

#13 Ah ok, Mathew, i think i am getting my head around this now. Basically if it is designed to be played then that is ok. However if it is to instruct/teach and learn then this is not permitted. So for instance if i was making a 3d learner driver software, i would need the commercial licence?

#14 Thats how I take it, though GG may correct me on this, that its the distinction between Indie "game" license and "commercial" license... while there can be an Indie Simulation Game, a Commercial Simulation is different.

#15 Indie meaning Independent Game Developer :)

#16 The indie licenses are ONLY for making a game where your company/organization makes less than $250,000/year. Anything else must be licensed under the commercial license. That means if you are making a simulation, you have to have a commercial license. If you have any questions, please feel free to email me.

#17 I think the idea here is you can't make a "game maker" and compete with Torque using Torque. So you couldn't make an RPG maker using Torque, and sell it as a binary. Essentially Garage Games is protecting themselves against someone competing with them, using their own technology. Well that's the way I understood it, at least.

#18 Just to follow up on what many have said: The "game" portion of the Indie license is designed specifically to make sure that you are making Games...because that's what the GarageGames vision is all about: providing technology to indie developers to make games.

The reason that the "simulation" terminology is in there is because there are many things that are not games, but use the same technology: Consider something like Virtual Canada: not a "game", but absolutely a simulation of a city.

An even better example is a project like using Torque to simulate an assembly line for instructional purposes. Prospective employees can use the simulation to see how the assembly line works, but even if this simulation was made by a company that makes less < $250,000 a year, it would still require a commercial license, since the end product is not a "game" designed as such with the intent to sell as such.

Final thought: gaming terminology always has been difficult to keep straight. For example, when you think about it, all Torque is actually is a simulation...hell, our second level base object is SimObject (for SimulationObject)...don't let that low level definition throw you!