Billiard Hall Tech Demo and Checkers Tech Demo
by Alex Rice · in Torque Game Builder · 08/26/2005 (8:32 pm) · 15 replies
The website has said "coming soon" for some time now. The
apple.com article features includes a screenshot of the T2D billiards demo apparently.
So are these available anywere to T2D owners?
apple.com article features includes a screenshot of the T2D billiards demo apparently.
So are these available anywere to T2D owners?
About the author
#2
08/27/2005 (1:59 am)
I think they are coming with the next update.
#3
08/27/2005 (9:03 pm)
Has there been any word on when that next update will be? I'd imagine right before/right after IGC is their hope-to date.
#4
08/28/2005 (1:09 am)
@Matt: that's what i'm guessing too.
#5
08/30/2005 (10:31 pm)
We'll get an update when it's done. Which is "sooner than we might think". Well, that's not quite true, since I thought we'd get an update 2-3 months ago, but anyway... it'll be really soon now. 
#7
Naja, vor ein paar Monaten hats geheissen, das update w
08/31/2005 (2:33 am)
Quote::)lolWas it a typo? Sorrry then. To avoid further confusion I'll use my first language to post here. So:
Naja, vor ein paar Monaten hats geheissen, das update w
#8
I don't really care if you are dubious of the intentions of GG's in regards to T2D. What you don't seem to realize is that Melv May does this in his free time, and he had back problems recently that kept him from being able to work on T2D for a while.
The Pool Demo had to be partly re-written after the last update as some changes broke the way it worked, much as some of the new changes will affect the way it works, since they are providing a new collision model, at the owners of T2D's request I might add... these things add up.
As for the networking being an add-on.... That's a rude assumption. GG's has always stated that it will be a final feature.
08/31/2005 (7:37 am)
You know what Lennart.. if you're going to insult the GG's staff, please do so in english.I don't really care if you are dubious of the intentions of GG's in regards to T2D. What you don't seem to realize is that Melv May does this in his free time, and he had back problems recently that kept him from being able to work on T2D for a while.
The Pool Demo had to be partly re-written after the last update as some changes broke the way it worked, much as some of the new changes will affect the way it works, since they are providing a new collision model, at the owners of T2D's request I might add... these things add up.
As for the networking being an add-on.... That's a rude assumption. GG's has always stated that it will be a final feature.
#9
08/31/2005 (7:59 am)
Getting the Billiards and Checkers demos w/ the next release of T2D will just be a double-bonus in addition to all the other awesome stuff that's going to be in there. :-)
#10
In any case after having my one single harmless sentence quoted by you in such a harsh light I will refrain from making any other comments that might get manipulated like that... The way I see it you should be able to smile and laugh at things, if you don't then you stress yourself out too much.
If you think insulting GG and Melv in another language is a better way to handle it, then be my guest.
Very mature ;)
08/31/2005 (8:47 am)
Hmm, I guess smiling and laughing a little offends you? In any case I was pointing out that I simply said "might"... some said they would think T2D would get there in a year or two, some said in a few months, if I gave a number I'd surely lose in some way or form, I guess theres always someone out there to try and make me lose even if I don't *shrug*. Most users of T2D (including me) are respectfull, why can't you be?In any case after having my one single harmless sentence quoted by you in such a harsh light I will refrain from making any other comments that might get manipulated like that... The way I see it you should be able to smile and laugh at things, if you don't then you stress yourself out too much.
If you think insulting GG and Melv in another language is a better way to handle it, then be my guest.
Quote:To avoid further confusion I'll use my first language to post here.
Very mature ;)
#11
1) Anthony, could you email me a translation of the post above please?
2) To make sure everyone understands expectations:
It was a goal to try to put out a new demo with every update release, but it is not a promise. As Anthony mentioned above, Melv had a setback with his back, combined with other factors and responsibilities for both him and Josh that have caused more of a delay in the next major update than we had hoped for, but I will tell you this beyond a doubt: T2D is easily in the top 5, if not the top 3 of the major taskings at GG. We also have dozens of projects and deadlines coming up (IGC for one is huge for us obviously, and just over a month out), but T2D is on the minds and task lists of a majority of our staff daily.
It is possible that one of the two demos mentioned in this thread may be part of an update in the future, but it is not currently a priority goal. We're not trying to take anything away from anyone, just setting reasonable and appropriate milestones and taskings for the staff, as well as expectations for the community.
08/31/2005 (10:28 am)
Wanted to jump in here on two things:1) Anthony, could you email me a translation of the post above please?
2) To make sure everyone understands expectations:
It was a goal to try to put out a new demo with every update release, but it is not a promise. As Anthony mentioned above, Melv had a setback with his back, combined with other factors and responsibilities for both him and Josh that have caused more of a delay in the next major update than we had hoped for, but I will tell you this beyond a doubt: T2D is easily in the top 5, if not the top 3 of the major taskings at GG. We also have dozens of projects and deadlines coming up (IGC for one is huge for us obviously, and just over a month out), but T2D is on the minds and task lists of a majority of our staff daily.
It is possible that one of the two demos mentioned in this thread may be part of an update in the future, but it is not currently a priority goal. We're not trying to take anything away from anyone, just setting reasonable and appropriate milestones and taskings for the staff, as well as expectations for the community.
#12
08/31/2005 (12:26 pm)
Some point in the past Josh offered to post a plan or post that listed the remaining todo list for the next release. Is that still a possibility? It would go a long way to indicate what's coming as well as a yardstick on how long. 
#13
Good questions. On the demo front, we've shown off the billiards demo at GDC, PAX and other shows. So, it's out there and some people have seen it. It works great, and likewise for checkers. Preparing a demo for full public release though takes a bunch of extra time though-- gotta test it on various machines and really make sure it's buttoned down (otherwise, we get roasted for releasing something buggy, as with the first version of the shooter demo. ;)
So, it does take a lot of extra work to prepare the public demo release and we constantly have to balance... "alright, people are all over us wanting the T2D 1.1 update, so we gotta get that done ASAP. But, of course, everyone also wants more docs. And of course if we're doing big changes that take a while, people want status updates too, which take time to write. Oh yeah, and we should finalize all the demos for public release too." So far, we've prioritized finishing up T2D 1.1 and working on docs over preparing more demos for public release.
We still do plan to release these demos, but right now getting T2D 1.1 out the door is the major priority, which I think most people will agree is the way to go. Docs / tutorials is the secondary priority, and demos third, right now.
Luke, as for the updates, maybe I wasn't totally clear about this, but I'm planning on doing monthly updates. The thread referred to was from July and it seemed like we addressed the recent updates there. I'm planning to do monthly updates from there, and I'm actually working on the August update right now (since it's the end of the month. :)
08/31/2005 (1:01 pm)
Hey guys,Good questions. On the demo front, we've shown off the billiards demo at GDC, PAX and other shows. So, it's out there and some people have seen it. It works great, and likewise for checkers. Preparing a demo for full public release though takes a bunch of extra time though-- gotta test it on various machines and really make sure it's buttoned down (otherwise, we get roasted for releasing something buggy, as with the first version of the shooter demo. ;)
So, it does take a lot of extra work to prepare the public demo release and we constantly have to balance... "alright, people are all over us wanting the T2D 1.1 update, so we gotta get that done ASAP. But, of course, everyone also wants more docs. And of course if we're doing big changes that take a while, people want status updates too, which take time to write. Oh yeah, and we should finalize all the demos for public release too." So far, we've prioritized finishing up T2D 1.1 and working on docs over preparing more demos for public release.
We still do plan to release these demos, but right now getting T2D 1.1 out the door is the major priority, which I think most people will agree is the way to go. Docs / tutorials is the secondary priority, and demos third, right now.
Luke, as for the updates, maybe I wasn't totally clear about this, but I'm planning on doing monthly updates. The thread referred to was from July and it seemed like we addressed the recent updates there. I'm planning to do monthly updates from there, and I'm actually working on the August update right now (since it's the end of the month. :)
#14
to which I replied:
But I do see that you later only mention the monthy update:
However I never saw a plan beyond your Feb 25th entry or an update thread besides the one from March. Since these messages we from July 22nd, I hadn't interpreted your offer as commencing at the beginning of September, and I never received a response to my direct email around the same time either.
Forgive me for being unable to repress this any longer, I love what GG is and what it offers, and the people involved are bona-fide heroes with lots and lots on your plates and high expectations from the indie masses, and I'm often the first one to cheerlead GG and its products; in fact I've hooked up a number of individuals as well as a few larger professional outfits with Torque. But it is getting increasingly more difficult to recommend to people aiming for commercial products when schedules are historically wildly overshot and the answer to this has been to almost entirely stop communicating altogether. I know there's a pain-point caused in no small part by the passionate, more vehement hobbyists' out here who start the charcoal when dates slip and estimates are taken as promises, etc. And I know what it is like to get your head down and have ten projects hammering you at once so when you look up, three months have gone by. But I'm pleading with you guys to hire someone or take a wee bit off someone's plate and find a reasonable way to communicate this stuff better and more frequently.
08/31/2005 (1:57 pm)
Actually I was referring to your offer:Quote:
I can post the remaining to-do list for the 1.1 update, if people think that'd be helpful.
to which I replied:
Quote:
To your suggestions, if you publicized the upcoming-release to-do list and updated it timely as you add/complete/drop things from it, that would be fantastic!
But I do see that you later only mention the monthy update:
Quote:
We'll give the monthly status update thing a shot. I'll kick it off with a .plan here soon, and will follow-up soon after that with the first official T2D status update thread here in the forums.
However I never saw a plan beyond your Feb 25th entry or an update thread besides the one from March. Since these messages we from July 22nd, I hadn't interpreted your offer as commencing at the beginning of September, and I never received a response to my direct email around the same time either.
Forgive me for being unable to repress this any longer, I love what GG is and what it offers, and the people involved are bona-fide heroes with lots and lots on your plates and high expectations from the indie masses, and I'm often the first one to cheerlead GG and its products; in fact I've hooked up a number of individuals as well as a few larger professional outfits with Torque. But it is getting increasingly more difficult to recommend to people aiming for commercial products when schedules are historically wildly overshot and the answer to this has been to almost entirely stop communicating altogether. I know there's a pain-point caused in no small part by the passionate, more vehement hobbyists' out here who start the charcoal when dates slip and estimates are taken as promises, etc. And I know what it is like to get your head down and have ten projects hammering you at once so when you look up, three months have gone by. But I'm pleading with you guys to hire someone or take a wee bit off someone's plate and find a reasonable way to communicate this stuff better and more frequently.
#15
We are demanding a lot from T2D, but in the end we are getting a lot. The first version that was released by Garage Games was an EA (early adopter) release. If you look at the first release of TSE and compare it to the first release of T2D, T2D is looking pretty good. Eventually they will have version 1.0 with all the features implemented, but its going to take a while to get there.
I want the new version of T2D to be released as soon as possible, just like anyone else. The demos would also be kind of neat to see also, but they are a very low priority to me. On the other hand I know that it's a lot of work to create a refined, user friendly product. So I would rather wait for Melv and Josh to do things right.
You can use T2D to make a game now. It already works and it comes with the source code. In fact a lot of things can be done without modifying the source code at all (well unless you are going crazy with the built in physics / animation). If you have something you want to make now, just use it. It's a really bad idea to wait for updates in order to make a game. If you need it to do something that is a planned feature, just implement it, and be done with it.
Well anyways, those are my two cents. I will stop rambling.
On the lighter side, check out this www.garagegames.com/blogs/47638/8614.
08/31/2005 (2:31 pm)
I think a lot of people here are underestimating the task Melv and Josh are undertaking. Creating any end user product takes a lot of work, if you are going to do it right. There are a lot of hard decisions to make, in order to create something that everyone will like. You can tell by looking at the T2D source code, that a lot of time is being spent even on the tiny things, like finding good names for methods and variables.We are demanding a lot from T2D, but in the end we are getting a lot. The first version that was released by Garage Games was an EA (early adopter) release. If you look at the first release of TSE and compare it to the first release of T2D, T2D is looking pretty good. Eventually they will have version 1.0 with all the features implemented, but its going to take a while to get there.
I want the new version of T2D to be released as soon as possible, just like anyone else. The demos would also be kind of neat to see also, but they are a very low priority to me. On the other hand I know that it's a lot of work to create a refined, user friendly product. So I would rather wait for Melv and Josh to do things right.
You can use T2D to make a game now. It already works and it comes with the source code. In fact a lot of things can be done without modifying the source code at all (well unless you are going crazy with the built in physics / animation). If you have something you want to make now, just use it. It's a really bad idea to wait for updates in order to make a game. If you need it to do something that is a planned feature, just implement it, and be done with it.
Well anyways, those are my two cents. I will stop rambling.
On the lighter side, check out this www.garagegames.com/blogs/47638/8614.
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