We need an indie version of THIS
by Jay Barnson · in General Discussion · 08/10/2005 (9:32 am) · 15 replies
www.complete-characters.com/
The price is not bad at all (especially with the unlimited-project license), but it's still a little too high for most indies. But it's a clever idea - $3200 for a hundred "supporting cast" characters is nice if you have a "real" budget. Even as an indie, I'd be tempted at, say, a tenth that cost.
But it got me thinking. Imagine something along the lines of Neverwinter Night's character builder (or even the one from the original "The Sims"). You can swap heads, coloration, textures, and some clothing geometry - make that interchangable with a different bodies, a few dozen heads for each gender, etc.
Sorry, just tilting at windmills out loud here, wondering if anyone else felt similarly inspired (maybe someone with some actual modeling talent to make something like this happen).
The price is not bad at all (especially with the unlimited-project license), but it's still a little too high for most indies. But it's a clever idea - $3200 for a hundred "supporting cast" characters is nice if you have a "real" budget. Even as an indie, I'd be tempted at, say, a tenth that cost.
But it got me thinking. Imagine something along the lines of Neverwinter Night's character builder (or even the one from the original "The Sims"). You can swap heads, coloration, textures, and some clothing geometry - make that interchangable with a different bodies, a few dozen heads for each gender, etc.
Sorry, just tilting at windmills out loud here, wondering if anyone else felt similarly inspired (maybe someone with some actual modeling talent to make something like this happen).
About the author
Jay has been a mainstream and indie game developer for a... uh, long time. His professional start came in 1994 developing titles for the then-unknown and upcoming Sony Playstation. He runs Rampant Games and blogs at Tales of the Rampant Coyote.
#2
08/10/2005 (9:59 am)
Especially if it came with a full variety of animations that cover more situations then just carrying a cross bow :P 
#3
08/10/2005 (10:13 am)
Something based on the Torque Skeleton by Jeff Gran would be great also.
#4
08/10/2005 (10:16 am)
I would pay a pretty penny for that actually :) 
#5
08/10/2005 (10:44 am)
We saw this quite a while ago and we agreed that this would be great for indies. Creating something like this and making it high quality would take a while. I think it would sell fairly well, but the initial cost of creating it would be prohibitive.
#6
That way configurations could be done on demand as well, if enough people request a medeival fantasy theme then it would be financially viable, or a futuristic military look (Tribes, UT), modern day city (GTA), etc...
08/10/2005 (10:50 am)
What would be usefull is if there were a base set at a very affordable price, with the full normal animations, regular deaths, running, walking, etc... then if there were configurations you could purchase on top of it, these would include genre specific skins and animations, maybe include one configuration with the base price. That way configurations could be done on demand as well, if enough people request a medeival fantasy theme then it would be financially viable, or a futuristic military look (Tribes, UT), modern day city (GTA), etc...
#7
Indies can't afford to start from scratch with every character, if they want to have a good number of characters in their game. What I would really love to do is make some kind of character generator. As Jay, says, it would be similar to the character creators in many sports and rpg games. You could choose which base head and body, have sliders for ears, jaw, nose, as well as height, weight, age, etc. And it would spit out a character at several polycounts, already bound to the skeleton. The textures would be the hardest part... but looking at how these guys have their layers and how Djagg did the layers on the soldier pack, I'm sure something flexible and customizeable could be made.
I wish I could work on a project like this... but, as Joe says, the initial cost in time and money is prohibitive...
Edit: thought I'd throw this link in for those who don't know about it. We used this at a company I worked at... very cool. It's $500 and only does faces. www.facegen.com/modeller.htm
08/10/2005 (11:30 am)
I've been thinking about this for a while... and I had a good talk about it with Jeff T over beers one time.Indies can't afford to start from scratch with every character, if they want to have a good number of characters in their game. What I would really love to do is make some kind of character generator. As Jay, says, it would be similar to the character creators in many sports and rpg games. You could choose which base head and body, have sliders for ears, jaw, nose, as well as height, weight, age, etc. And it would spit out a character at several polycounts, already bound to the skeleton. The textures would be the hardest part... but looking at how these guys have their layers and how Djagg did the layers on the soldier pack, I'm sure something flexible and customizeable could be made.
I wish I could work on a project like this... but, as Joe says, the initial cost in time and money is prohibitive...
Edit: thought I'd throw this link in for those who don't know about it. We used this at a company I worked at... very cool. It's $500 and only does faces. www.facegen.com/modeller.htm
#8
Great link. I've been needing a variety of realistic, low to medium res human characters with a variety of animations (including non-violent/everyday anims). This looks perfect for my project . . . but that's a lot of money.
@everyone
Does anyone here have any experience with the company that makes the complete-characters product? If they have a reliable track record, then I think I can scrape together the money to pay for it.
Thanks.
08/10/2005 (12:41 pm)
@JayGreat link. I've been needing a variety of realistic, low to medium res human characters with a variety of animations (including non-violent/everyday anims). This looks perfect for my project . . . but that's a lot of money.
@everyone
Does anyone here have any experience with the company that makes the complete-characters product? If they have a reliable track record, then I think I can scrape together the money to pay for it.
Thanks.
#9
Neet thoe, i would never use it. but yes, they are top notch, I just prefer that specialized look per game.
08/10/2005 (1:46 pm)
While nifty, They are generic.. No style, no real artiest touch, and works only if your going for photorealism.Neet thoe, i would never use it. but yes, they are top notch, I just prefer that specialized look per game.
#10
Examples of what teams can do to help develop a proper art pipeline includes:
- Defining skeletons that all characters in the game must use and conform to. If you have a TD or an experianced guy you can have this person further streamline the path by quickly setting up controllers and limitations on the skeletons so that the animators can only do what you want and need.
- Build or work from a set of generic animations, this way either the models all use the same animations or if you need subtle variations you can quickly produce them with minimal effort and time spent.
- Develop features and aspects that can be shared in your game models. Not only does this help make things unified for a consistent look and feel to your games, but you can also quickly swap out parts to quickly customize them. If you wanted to go one step further it wouldnt be difficult to setup a mounting system as Jeff Gran had mentioned that could swap out heads, arms, legs, torsos, etc.
- Use shaders. Shaders will allow you to make a wide range of subtle changes to a common set of models by simply swapping which texture is used. Normal mapping for example could be used to make a whole slew of unique looking soldiers for a game that all use the same model geometry and you can get far more advanced from here with using shaders to change skin tones and more.
As you can see there is a lot that you can do as an indie to streamline your process and develop a whole bunch of unique and original art without requiring a huge team of developers on a large budget. The key is in knowing what you are doing and how to best do it within your budget, everything else from there is a cake walk.
Edit: hit the stupid touch pad on my laptop which resulted in some text being placed out of order
08/10/2005 (2:01 pm)
Characters for indie teams aren't too terribly difficult to do if time is taken before the project starts to streamline the pipeline and get a proper art path built from the get go. As such I feel that the biggest issue isnt that multiple characters are difficult to make but that indies for the most part (as a generalization) lack the experiance and intelligence to setup their art tool and processes in advanced.Examples of what teams can do to help develop a proper art pipeline includes:
- Defining skeletons that all characters in the game must use and conform to. If you have a TD or an experianced guy you can have this person further streamline the path by quickly setting up controllers and limitations on the skeletons so that the animators can only do what you want and need.
- Build or work from a set of generic animations, this way either the models all use the same animations or if you need subtle variations you can quickly produce them with minimal effort and time spent.
- Develop features and aspects that can be shared in your game models. Not only does this help make things unified for a consistent look and feel to your games, but you can also quickly swap out parts to quickly customize them. If you wanted to go one step further it wouldnt be difficult to setup a mounting system as Jeff Gran had mentioned that could swap out heads, arms, legs, torsos, etc.
- Use shaders. Shaders will allow you to make a wide range of subtle changes to a common set of models by simply swapping which texture is used. Normal mapping for example could be used to make a whole slew of unique looking soldiers for a game that all use the same model geometry and you can get far more advanced from here with using shaders to change skin tones and more.
As you can see there is a lot that you can do as an indie to streamline your process and develop a whole bunch of unique and original art without requiring a huge team of developers on a large budget. The key is in knowing what you are doing and how to best do it within your budget, everything else from there is a cake walk.
Edit: hit the stupid touch pad on my laptop which resulted in some text being placed out of order
#12
08/10/2005 (5:59 pm)
We have a website that has low-poly (1500-3000 poly) medieval and monster models for 3dsmax. I've been considering releasing indie versions. Is anyone actually interested in generic medieval characters?
#13
08/10/2005 (7:07 pm)
My team absolutely is interested in (especially lower than that, say 800 poly) models...contact me via email, or here with some screenshots!
#15
08/10/2005 (8:33 pm)
JMac - if you can LOD those versions with lower poly versions, I'd be interested. I expect some other folks (like Josh Ritter) might be as well. Do these have skeletons & animations yet? (Doesn't matter, just matters how much I'd pay for 'em >:) )
Torque 3D Owner Matthew Langley
Torque
An indie version of this along the lines of what your talking about would be invaluable