Mount0 node - Weapons looking wrong (1st & 3rd person)
by Gleznov · in Artist Corner · 08/04/2005 (12:28 pm) · 20 replies
Hi,
I've added a couple of weapons to my game and a new player character. The problem I seem to be having is in the way that the weapons mount on the character. I have a mount0 set in my character's hand. I have a mountPoint on the weapons. (although just for this discussion, let's take standard Crossbow).
When my character holds the crossbow, he's holding it sideways (3rd person). Why? I dunno! I thought maybe I needed to rotate my node or something, before I found out you CAN'T rotate a node. So I tried offset, but it turns out this will just move it, not rotate it into the right angle via any of the axes.
I also just implemented the server side melee system and used the meleetut.rar file which contained a sword and the code to back it. When my char picks up the sword though, it's leaning way out to the side. (When the default player character holds it, it aims inside toward the other shoulder).
I don't know what piece of info I'm missing, but I just want to be able to have my characters hold weapons correctly. What am I missing here?
Glez
I've added a couple of weapons to my game and a new player character. The problem I seem to be having is in the way that the weapons mount on the character. I have a mount0 set in my character's hand. I have a mountPoint on the weapons. (although just for this discussion, let's take standard Crossbow).
When my character holds the crossbow, he's holding it sideways (3rd person). Why? I dunno! I thought maybe I needed to rotate my node or something, before I found out you CAN'T rotate a node. So I tried offset, but it turns out this will just move it, not rotate it into the right angle via any of the axes.
I also just implemented the server side melee system and used the meleetut.rar file which contained a sword and the code to back it. When my char picks up the sword though, it's leaning way out to the side. (When the default player character holds it, it aims inside toward the other shoulder).
I don't know what piece of info I'm missing, but I just want to be able to have my characters hold weapons correctly. What am I missing here?
Glez
#2
08/04/2005 (12:48 pm)
You CAN and should rotate the mount0 node. The standard orientation is for the mount node to be (roughly) aligned with world space when pointing the weapon forwards at someone.
#3
Glez
08/04/2005 (12:51 pm)
I've got Milkshape open right now - I select-->joint and highlight the mount0 node. Then I click Rotate and move the cursor around in the windows, and nothing happens. Am I doing this wrong?Glez
#4
Glez
08/04/2005 (12:54 pm)
I found a possible cheap solution (although I'm not delighted by it). And that is to select that node, then make a new child node from it, which causes the parent node (my mount node) to rotate. Then as soon as I have it like I want it, set the new node, then delete it immediately. Maybe this is the best I can do?Glez
#5
08/04/2005 (1:25 pm)
Don't know much about milkshape except that I don't like it.... is your mount0 a bone? it doesn't need to be.... I don't know man, but I do know that the mount node has to be aligned properly. Maybe check out this: www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=32957 
#6
Reading Tim's very early .Plans about the exporter are pretty rich....
You can do a few little 'tricks' on the 'Milkfarm'......takes patience; and that, they say, is a virtue. :).
08/04/2005 (3:12 pm)
Hahahahaha.....good answer. Yes, Gleznov, your mount Node needs to be a Joint object in Milkshape3d, and it is difficult to rotate a unparented joint, that's why I think the documents might reflect that approach, as they do not fully understand the program and it's limits. You could probably make a geometric mesh a Node[during export], but then you have no precision on it's axis then, making them a Joint is probably a better way to go about it[and that's how meshes are animated in Ms3d], and making sure they form a hierarchy to keep them following the rest of the 'whole' object, otherwise it's manual keyframes for every bone, muzzlepoint, ejectpoint, could get sloppy, and for a player, eeehhhh.Reading Tim's very early .Plans about the exporter are pretty rich....
You can do a few little 'tricks' on the 'Milkfarm'......takes patience; and that, they say, is a virtue. :).
#7
wati 1st and 3rd person it should only look odd in 3rd person because in 1st person it's using the weapon image instead of the real thing?
08/04/2005 (3:36 pm)
Well I use milkshape and what I think you could do is rotate the node to the right place in all your animations because you can rotate nodes when your animating. I think your charecter is constantly running animations even when he's standing still he's doing the root animation. I don't know though I haven't used milkshape in a while.wati 1st and 3rd person it should only look odd in 3rd person because in 1st person it's using the weapon image instead of the real thing?
#8
...following my Guides, ain't for the timid....LOL.
08/04/2005 (3:43 pm)
Hey, Gleznov, I think I've helped you out before, send that weapon my way with some notes on what it does and is expected to do, and in no time I'll have some kind of answer for you, or functioning shape. :)...following my Guides, ain't for the timid....LOL.
#9
So is there an easier way to rotate a node (joint)? I'm trying to use my quickfix method I gave earlier, but for some reason if I turn it a bit in the side screen, where it looks like just kinda should point the weapon up a little, it ends up making it point way out to the side instead (?)
Glez
08/04/2005 (3:46 pm)
Rex,So is there an easier way to rotate a node (joint)? I'm trying to use my quickfix method I gave earlier, but for some reason if I turn it a bit in the side screen, where it looks like just kinda should point the weapon up a little, it ends up making it point way out to the side instead (?)
Glez
#10
08/04/2005 (3:48 pm)
Yes, there is, well, not 'easier', but there is nearly always a 'way' to make something work....your Dummy bone is a good fix. It's like one Node. But if want the shape as exactly as you 'expect' it, I can do it, gulp. Set myself up on that one...lol. Give me direction on how it's 'suppose' to be held and how you want it. Could be because of this unparented mount0 you spoke of...hard to say without actually taking a look. Pictures speak 1000 words....across any language.
#11
I'll get back to you soon and let you know if I need to send you the models or not :)
Glez
08/04/2005 (4:21 pm)
Well no, the mount0 is parented. But I still can't rotate it - or actually I did manage to get rotate to work, but in any view I did it in, it created the same bizarre, weapon pointing way away from the character angle. So I tried making IT a parent to another child node, which I could use to rotate it, and that worked to the point of being about 90% where I want it to be. I think I'm going to experiment with one more thing, because my model's arms could be higher, which could fix the whole thing... Just gotta rework the animation keyframes for it...I'll get back to you soon and let you know if I need to send you the models or not :)
Glez
#12
I managed to get the blade exactly the way I want it (3rd person). Could you help me with 1st person? When I use eyeOffset, is there anyway to still animate it kinda bobbing as I walk or something? Actually, that's not so important, but how about animate it when I attack? (Have you used the server side melee system?) Any idea how to do that?
Glez
08/04/2005 (5:44 pm)
Rex,I managed to get the blade exactly the way I want it (3rd person). Could you help me with 1st person? When I use eyeOffset, is there anyway to still animate it kinda bobbing as I walk or something? Actually, that's not so important, but how about animate it when I attack? (Have you used the server side melee system?) Any idea how to do that?
Glez
#13
08/04/2005 (6:08 pm)
No, I don't know anything about this server side melee as it's not within my design specs. I can produce animations, but you need to be very sure of what exactly you need. Kinda sounds like you're going in several directions at once....
#14
Glez
08/04/2005 (7:48 pm)
Well just trying to get my weapon to look right in 1st and 3rd person. So far 3rd person is good. But in first person I don't see any examples of how to make the eyeOffset'd sword image "swing".Glez
#15
08/12/2005 (3:05 pm)
What is that - meleetut.rar? Sounds like something very useful to me. Could you tell me where did you get it, Gleznov? Thanks.
#16
Go to the "server side melee" resource. Drop to the very bottom of the thread. A guy named Joobot has the resource. He lists his link, but I list it again in the last or next to last post there.
Glez
08/13/2005 (4:20 pm)
Nicolai, Go to the "server side melee" resource. Drop to the very bottom of the thread. A guy named Joobot has the resource. He lists his link, but I list it again in the last or next to last post there.
Glez
#17
08/14/2005 (6:54 am)
Thanks, Gleznov. There were so many links out there that I didn't know which to pick :)
#18
Thanks for attention.
08/14/2005 (7:40 am)
Btw, Glez, looks like we are working on somewhat similar projects. I mean, if your character swings the sword, the game is historical[or]fantasy action[or]RPG :) I'd like to talk to you on this subject, don't you mind? You already have some experience with Torque in this field, while I didn't even start to work on animations (but planning to do that in closest future). So, do you have time and/or willing to talk? If yes, send me a mail, please - this is not the best place for chat :)Thanks for attention.
#19
08/14/2005 (10:31 am)
The problem with meleetut.rar is that in contains the torque debug file and no source (I realize its hard to find a way to distribute source). So I can't have it and all the engine changes I've made running at the same time.
#20
You can still download the actual instructions from the server side resource that give you all the engine code changes. I used that to recompile my own source code (without a problem, I might add - very well instructed). You just can't access his example program.
Glez
08/15/2005 (4:37 am)
Master Treb:You can still download the actual instructions from the server side resource that give you all the engine code changes. I used that to recompile my own source code (without a problem, I might add - very well instructed). You just can't access his example program.
Glez
Torque Owner Gleznov
Glez