Rational Reducer Pro
by Chad Coulliette · in Artist Corner · 01/28/2002 (1:48 pm) · 6 replies
Has anyone used or considered Rational Reducer (http://www.taylortrade.com/sim/rr.htm)? It has a good reputation amongst those that use it. It takes any 3D model as an input, and produces a model that looks visually identical, but with as few as vertices as possible. My main interest is in applying it to tree models, which often slow down the engine a lot. It could also be useful for optimizing character models, to make sure that as few vetices as possible are used. The problem is that Rational Reducer cost $5000. That seems a bit high, but their target user group is the automobile industry and others that have sufficient funds. Is there any other software out there that has this type of functionality, but does not cost so much? I have searched the web, but not found anything that works in a similar way. If there is no other application out there, I wonder if they could be convinced to let members of Garage Games make use of Rational Reducer for a more reasonable price?
Thanks,
Chad
Thanks,
Chad
About the author
#2
Most low poly models are crafted specifically with low polygon counts in mind. This to many is the art...
i dont beleve automated optimisation adequately considers animation and texturing subtleties required of the mesh. (although this is fine for distant objects)
01/28/2002 (3:01 pm)
the level of detail plugin ($100 from digitaldomain.com) is intended to deliver this. I believe it has been integrated into max4.Most low poly models are crafted specifically with low polygon counts in mind. This to many is the art...
i dont beleve automated optimisation adequately considers animation and texturing subtleties required of the mesh. (although this is fine for distant objects)
#3
What tools are thinking of? If there are other tools out there for doing this, I would like to compare them to Rational Reducer and an algorithm that myself and a colleague of mine are working on. Could you give me some names and their corresponding URLs? Having such a tool that comes with the TGE tools would be great. Doing it in realtime seems risky because it would use a lot of CPU time and does not give the developer control over how the objects are going to be seen. I am thinking of this more as a pre-processing step in optimizing select models, rather than as a realtime continuous level of detail algorithm that applies to all models.
Jules or Sam:
I cannot find this link digitaldomain.com. Their liquid interface is really weird, so I cannot figure out where to look for their software products. Are you sure this is the right link? If so, can you give me a more precise URL? Having such a tool built into 3DS MAX as a plug-in would be really useful it seems.
One further comment: it is true that many game designers consider this their art, designing efficient low-poly models that still look great. But, in the interest of Garage Game theme, that is, allowing small groups to produce high-quality marketable games, it seems that having such a tool in our toolbox would be a great asset. There are so many models that I have run across (e.g., many Tree models, cars, airplanes, Poser 4 Character models, clothing, weapons, hair) on the web and in commercial model libraries that look fantastic, but have way too many polygons to be used in a realtime engine. Rather that starting from scratch and building these models as low polygon from the beginning, it makes a lot more sense to me to invest some time or money in such an algorithm that can systematically optimize any model before being rendered in the realtime engine. We would no longer have to limit our use of existing models to low-poly models, but could use a much larger subset of the models that are currently available on the web or elsewhere.
Download the Rational Reducer demo and give it a try, so you can better see what I am talking about.
Thanks again,
Chad
01/28/2002 (5:48 pm)
Phil,What tools are thinking of? If there are other tools out there for doing this, I would like to compare them to Rational Reducer and an algorithm that myself and a colleague of mine are working on. Could you give me some names and their corresponding URLs? Having such a tool that comes with the TGE tools would be great. Doing it in realtime seems risky because it would use a lot of CPU time and does not give the developer control over how the objects are going to be seen. I am thinking of this more as a pre-processing step in optimizing select models, rather than as a realtime continuous level of detail algorithm that applies to all models.
Jules or Sam:
I cannot find this link digitaldomain.com. Their liquid interface is really weird, so I cannot figure out where to look for their software products. Are you sure this is the right link? If so, can you give me a more precise URL? Having such a tool built into 3DS MAX as a plug-in would be really useful it seems.
One further comment: it is true that many game designers consider this their art, designing efficient low-poly models that still look great. But, in the interest of Garage Game theme, that is, allowing small groups to produce high-quality marketable games, it seems that having such a tool in our toolbox would be a great asset. There are so many models that I have run across (e.g., many Tree models, cars, airplanes, Poser 4 Character models, clothing, weapons, hair) on the web and in commercial model libraries that look fantastic, but have way too many polygons to be used in a realtime engine. Rather that starting from scratch and building these models as low polygon from the beginning, it makes a lot more sense to me to invest some time or money in such an algorithm that can systematically optimize any model before being rendered in the realtime engine. We would no longer have to limit our use of existing models to low-poly models, but could use a much larger subset of the models that are currently available on the web or elsewhere.
Download the Rational Reducer demo and give it a try, so you can better see what I am talking about.
Thanks again,
Chad
#4
01/29/2002 (8:55 am)
I don't know if this is what you are looking for but if you are using Max 4 you can just add an "Optimize" modifier on your object. Then you can tweek the setting until you get what you want. I seem to remember this in Max 3.x too. Anyway....maybe that helps and doesn't cost 5k=) 
#5
I have found the MultiRes modifier to be quite good overall (and free if you have purchased Max R4), another one is "PolyChop" by Stan Melax www.melax.com. Polychop is available for Max R3 and R2.5, but you can downlaod and compile the source code that Stan Melax has released and have it work in R4 with little effort.
Logan
01/29/2002 (12:13 pm)
The thing I really dislike about these object reduction modifiers is that they usually cull out faces in an undesired way and can usually wreck UVW coordinates, smoothing groups, and sometimes the model.I have found the MultiRes modifier to be quite good overall (and free if you have purchased Max R4), another one is "PolyChop" by Stan Melax www.melax.com. Polychop is available for Max R3 and R2.5, but you can downlaod and compile the source code that Stan Melax has released and have it work in R4 with little effort.
Logan
#6
the url is
www.digimation.com/asp/product.asp?product_id=58
but as i said if you have max 4 its not nessesary. (someone correct me if im wrong)
thats the plug that joes examples are looking for....
good luck.
and yeah the optimise modifyer has a shot at it but isnt very intelligent, basically you get a very crunchy model very quickly...
sam
01/29/2002 (12:30 pm)
sorry i was off in another world...the url is
www.digimation.com/asp/product.asp?product_id=58
but as i said if you have max 4 its not nessesary. (someone correct me if im wrong)
thats the plug that joes examples are looking for....
good luck.
and yeah the optimise modifyer has a shot at it but isnt very intelligent, basically you get a very crunchy model very quickly...
sam
Torque 3D Owner Phil Carlisle
3DS Max has a non-realtime version of a similar thing.
Its quite easy to add a realtime version into the engine, but as yet, its not been worthwhile.
Phil.