Several problems - skinless models, export shape, new DTS export
by Gleznov · in Artist Corner · 07/04/2005 (11:41 am) · 14 replies
Hi,
I'm trying to get Milkshape working with Torque, but I'm just not having much luck. Here's what I've got:
I created a model that's basically a big ball with 2 more balls for eyes and 2 even smaller balls for eyeballs. There's then a distorted cylinder shaped as a smile, and a hat on the top of its head. Very simple. Now here's problem one:
If I export to Wavefront Obj and open in UVWrapper, all I see is a big cylinder wireframe. The whole screen fills with this, but I don't see the first sign of my model.
If I open the .ms3d file with LithUnwrap, exactly the same thing. My actual model doesn't seem to make it into these programs properly. I don't understand it, it looks fine in Milkshape.
So as a temporary work around, I use some .PNG 128x128 squares of pure color to color the body yellow, the eyes white, the eyeballs black, the mouth red and the hat blue. It looks fine in the preview window of Milkshape.
Now I try exporting to DTS using the old exporter. Export Material Information is checked. I output to a file, then replace my demo directory's player.dts with this dts file. I load the game and... Sometimes it freezes at load, sometimes it doesn't. But I have my model in the game, all grey (no colors/skin), and he's resting halfway in the ground. I've tried some people's suggestions of making a box around the model (tight) and calling it Root and bounding it to a joint that sits on the bottom line of the model called Root. (The model sits with it's bottom on the base plane shown in Milkshape). But I can't tell any difference when I do this. I make a quick animation and export again, and now my model shows up, still all grey, but doing the animation. So at least it looks like I'm doing SOMETHING right.
Now I try to export with the new exporter. I bracket a couple of my animations into Root and Run. I export the DTS, copy it over in place of player.dts, and... once again sometimes the game just locks at loadtime, and sometimes it starts. What I have for a model is - one larger grey ball and one small grey ball floating in the air and to one side. This doesn't even resemble my model, so I have no idea what to do about that.
It seems like it should be simple enough to get a milkshape model into torque, so there must be some little tricks i don't know. Also, I understand there is some documentation with the new exporter, but for some reason when I open it, all I get is "Page can not be displayed" in the main window, no matter what I click in the left menu. I also really want to figure out how to open my models in UVWrapper or LithUnwrap so I can work on making some great skins.
Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'm very anxious and excited about getting my models working in Torque.
Thanks!
Glez
I'm trying to get Milkshape working with Torque, but I'm just not having much luck. Here's what I've got:
I created a model that's basically a big ball with 2 more balls for eyes and 2 even smaller balls for eyeballs. There's then a distorted cylinder shaped as a smile, and a hat on the top of its head. Very simple. Now here's problem one:
If I export to Wavefront Obj and open in UVWrapper, all I see is a big cylinder wireframe. The whole screen fills with this, but I don't see the first sign of my model.
If I open the .ms3d file with LithUnwrap, exactly the same thing. My actual model doesn't seem to make it into these programs properly. I don't understand it, it looks fine in Milkshape.
So as a temporary work around, I use some .PNG 128x128 squares of pure color to color the body yellow, the eyes white, the eyeballs black, the mouth red and the hat blue. It looks fine in the preview window of Milkshape.
Now I try exporting to DTS using the old exporter. Export Material Information is checked. I output to a file, then replace my demo directory's player.dts with this dts file. I load the game and... Sometimes it freezes at load, sometimes it doesn't. But I have my model in the game, all grey (no colors/skin), and he's resting halfway in the ground. I've tried some people's suggestions of making a box around the model (tight) and calling it Root and bounding it to a joint that sits on the bottom line of the model called Root. (The model sits with it's bottom on the base plane shown in Milkshape). But I can't tell any difference when I do this. I make a quick animation and export again, and now my model shows up, still all grey, but doing the animation. So at least it looks like I'm doing SOMETHING right.
Now I try to export with the new exporter. I bracket a couple of my animations into Root and Run. I export the DTS, copy it over in place of player.dts, and... once again sometimes the game just locks at loadtime, and sometimes it starts. What I have for a model is - one larger grey ball and one small grey ball floating in the air and to one side. This doesn't even resemble my model, so I have no idea what to do about that.
It seems like it should be simple enough to get a milkshape model into torque, so there must be some little tricks i don't know. Also, I understand there is some documentation with the new exporter, but for some reason when I open it, all I get is "Page can not be displayed" in the main window, no matter what I click in the left menu. I also really want to figure out how to open my models in UVWrapper or LithUnwrap so I can work on making some great skins.
Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'm very anxious and excited about getting my models working in Torque.
Thanks!
Glez
#2
Glez
07/04/2005 (12:50 pm)
I agree. And I haven't registered Milkshape yet, but this next paycheck I plan to, and maybe a paycheck after that I can grab unwrapper. But just for this model, for materials in Milkshape that cover it, to export where I can put it in the FPS demo and see it in color, how can I fix this? If you agree I'll gladly email my .ms3d file to you. Even just a link to the kind of information I'll need to figure this out would be fine. It's frustrating that I can't read the windows help file instructions that came with the new exporter.Glez
#3
Glez
07/04/2005 (4:43 pm)
Also, my shape (with old exporter) works in the game, there's no problems with it moving around, it just doesn't look good with every face grey.Glez
#4
include everything you were using...texture, etc...
07/05/2005 (6:43 am)
Send it via my public email in my Profile and I'll gladly take a look at the model...include a few notes on what you're trying to achieve and what it's doing wrong and I'll get on it.include everything you were using...texture, etc...
#5
I wrote the ms2dtsExporterPlus.
You mentioned you were having trouble with the online help - some questions:
- Is the help file (ms2dtsplus.chm) in the milkshape install directory?
- Are you able to view the help if you open it outside of milkshape? ie. just open ms2dtsplus.chm?
Would people prefer if I also made the help available as pdf? html?
07/05/2005 (1:33 pm)
Hi Gleznov,I wrote the ms2dtsExporterPlus.
You mentioned you were having trouble with the online help - some questions:
- Is the help file (ms2dtsplus.chm) in the milkshape install directory?
- Are you able to view the help if you open it outside of milkshape? ie. just open ms2dtsplus.chm?
Would people prefer if I also made the help available as pdf? html?
#6
Well for some reason I can't display it in or outside of Milkshape, all I get is "Page can not be displayed". I would love it if you made the help available in another format! Let me know if there's somewhere I can go to grab it.
Rex,
We're leaving in a couple hours for the hospital to have our baby. When we get back in a day or two, I'll be back and busy with Torque/Milkshape in my free time (Taking a week or two off to help out at home). I'll email the model and info to you as soon as we get back. Thanks so much!
Glez
07/05/2005 (2:24 pm)
Chris,Well for some reason I can't display it in or outside of Milkshape, all I get is "Page can not be displayed". I would love it if you made the help available in another format! Let me know if there's somewhere I can go to grab it.
Rex,
We're leaving in a couple hours for the hospital to have our baby. When we get back in a day or two, I'll be back and busy with Torque/Milkshape in my free time (Taking a week or two off to help out at home). I'll email the model and info to you as soon as we get back. Thanks so much!
Glez
#7
It opens fine by itself.
07/05/2005 (2:41 pm)
Me, too, Chris. I've got the .chm in the Milkshape3D root folder[along with the native 2/3], and it never opens with the Help button on the Exporter Dialog...It opens fine by itself.
#8
In any case, I have the documentation in HTML format (which I convert to CHM), does anyone know of a good tool to convert multiple HTML pages into a single PDF?
07/06/2005 (12:49 pm)
Hmmm.......how odd - I can open the help fine from the mikshape dialogs. I wonder what is going wrong?In any case, I have the documentation in HTML format (which I convert to CHM), does anyone know of a good tool to convert multiple HTML pages into a single PDF?
#9
Glez
07/08/2005 (10:55 pm)
Chris, I'd be glad to even download a zip file of several HTML files :) Rex, the file is on the way. We had a healthy baby boy! And now I look forward to spending the next week off of work enjoying my new baby and my new toy, Torque ;PGlez
#10
Hhhmmm.........I got a dts shape and textures, but no source file? I see the dts is very 'strange', but let me see the source and what happens when I compile it from from platform.
more notes: I see the BB Eye1 and Eye2 objects in the hierarchy, those are detail trailing numbers and will only render the object when it's X pixel onscreen.
Yeah, please send the Milkshape file so I can see what's up wit dat!
LOL, yeah it's in the detail numbers! The smiley face and hat render at 0 pixels[never really seen], as one eyeball and the opposite pupil take over at 1 and 2 pixels and then they swap at the other detail level.... You're almost there, textures seem fine. Swapping detail levels in a ShowTool* while in wireframe confirms this. Try these names for the groups:
Try naming all the parts with another appending marker than a number...those are specifically used for detail levels in most exporters. The above will render the shapes from 0 pixel height to maximum onscreen height. Any higher number, and it will 'wink-out' below that threshold.
With the newest version of DTSPlus!, you can manually enter the detail level of the meshes, not sure if it disregards the 'name' number value...if you really need those naming conventions.
And remember to have the engine locate the texture[and have you see it inside the engine] for a DTS shape, it/they must be located with the shape or in a folder above it.
07/09/2005 (8:29 am)
Congratulations! Well done! I'll see what I can do with the package you send...Hhhmmm.........I got a dts shape and textures, but no source file? I see the dts is very 'strange', but let me see the source and what happens when I compile it from from platform.
more notes: I see the BB Eye1 and Eye2 objects in the hierarchy, those are detail trailing numbers and will only render the object when it's X pixel onscreen.
Yeah, please send the Milkshape file so I can see what's up wit dat!
LOL, yeah it's in the detail numbers! The smiley face and hat render at 0 pixels[never really seen], as one eyeball and the opposite pupil take over at 1 and 2 pixels and then they swap at the other detail level.... You're almost there, textures seem fine. Swapping detail levels in a ShowTool* while in wireframe confirms this. Try these names for the groups:
BB Leye0 BB Reye0 BB Lpupil0 BB Rpupil0 BB Body0 BB HatA0 BB HatB0 BB Mouth0
Try naming all the parts with another appending marker than a number...those are specifically used for detail levels in most exporters. The above will render the shapes from 0 pixel height to maximum onscreen height. Any higher number, and it will 'wink-out' below that threshold.
With the newest version of DTSPlus!, you can manually enter the detail level of the meshes, not sure if it disregards the 'name' number value...if you really need those naming conventions.
And remember to have the engine locate the texture[and have you see it inside the engine] for a DTS shape, it/they must be located with the shape or in a folder above it.
#11
Glez
07/10/2005 (3:14 pm)
Under the new exporter, where it says scale, it has 0.1 by default, is this right? Or am I scaling my model to one tenth it's size?Glez
#12
To demonstrate this, produce a 1 unit cube in milkshape[snap verts to grid] and export it at a Scale factor of 1. Place it in TGE and see how big it is....comes to about the players knees....well, waist.
I always scale my objects to my finished player character; especially weaponery that has to mount and be held convincingly...otherwise, it's an endless cycle of compile-insert-rescale-repeat.
07/10/2005 (6:35 pm)
If you adhere to that setting....if you use 1Ms3d 'unit'=1 TGE 'unit'[1meter], and leave the scale at 1:1, you'll get a shape that doesn't need any scaling done to it. A 2.4 'unit' shape in Milkshape3D at a 1 Scale factor, will produce a 2.4 meter shape in TGE...and one 'unit', the smallest grid in MS3d, is therefore 1 'meter' in scale....which is why the default setting is used; to allow you to build 'big' and scale it down. I, myself, build my shapes to their exact size after export. It means working in a very small scall in Ms3d...but I know exactly how big my finished product is.To demonstrate this, produce a 1 unit cube in milkshape[snap verts to grid] and export it at a Scale factor of 1. Place it in TGE and see how big it is....comes to about the players knees....well, waist.
I always scale my objects to my finished player character; especially weaponery that has to mount and be held convincingly...otherwise, it's an endless cycle of compile-insert-rescale-repeat.
#13
I made the changes you recommended to the model and replaced player.dts with it. Now when I click start game, the screen just locks - sometimes the health/magic meters show up but nothing else. What else do I need to do to import/test my models in the FPS demo? Is it freezing like this because my model is underground? If so, is there a script file where I can set starting coords as way up high and let him drop down to the ground?
Glez
07/12/2005 (10:20 am)
Rex,I made the changes you recommended to the model and replaced player.dts with it. Now when I click start game, the screen just locks - sometimes the health/magic meters show up but nothing else. What else do I need to do to import/test my models in the FPS demo? Is it freezing like this because my model is underground? If so, is there a script file where I can set starting coords as way up high and let him drop down to the ground?
Glez
#14
...might be better to start placing it as something other than the player[lot of code for that which migh bork up]
Right now, I'm having some difficulties getting my dsq's out of ms3d?? I had some luck with them, but with this current shape, it's all screwy. First my data not making it into the dsq file, then when I get a file saved, I can't get my shape to validate them, the engine seems to be ignoring them...??? I've edited my player.cs script to accept the new indexes...but the engine can't find them in the same folder???? Very odd...must get some lunch. Good luck.
07/12/2005 (12:12 pm)
Ah, as a 'player', it needs special Nodes to function. Cam, Eye are needed, then it 'should' have some valid sequences[used to crash the engine if there were none, depending on version...]. It there are no sequences or it doesn't validate them into the shape, the shape 'should' slide around[as any movement sequence] and perhaps 'jump' if asked....might be better to start placing it as something other than the player[lot of code for that which migh bork up]
Right now, I'm having some difficulties getting my dsq's out of ms3d?? I had some luck with them, but with this current shape, it's all screwy. First my data not making it into the dsq file, then when I get a file saved, I can't get my shape to validate them, the engine seems to be ignoring them...??? I've edited my player.cs script to accept the new indexes...but the engine can't find them in the same folder???? Very odd...must get some lunch. Good luck.
Torque Owner Rex
BrokeAss Games
...almost sounds as though you're asking a UVMapper or LithunWrap question...animation query is definitely answerable, but not so sure about the free uvmapping program's handling of the .OBJ format the way you've sent it out of the milkfarm...
...and if you expect to see your objects 'working' in TGE 'out of box', you'll have to study up on TorqueScripting and triggers first, before posting the obliquitoryThread, "Why doesn't my shape do anything once inside the engine, looks fine in the -ShowTool??".
I've found TGE to be about 5%artwork and 95%scripting/coding...be prepared!
...if you can afford Milkshape's license you can probably afford UltimateUnwrapped3d's, LithunWrap's more robust bigger sibling...exports/imports ms3d shapes just fine, not had an issue yet. I've always considered it a bit 'wanky' to have to reformat your shapes to conform to a applications 'needs'...just my humble opinion.