Best Hand to Hand Combat you've seen in a game
by Mac McGaffigan · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 06/21/2005 (11:16 pm) · 74 replies
I am interested in creating a game that uses melee or hand to hand combat. I am interested in what sort of implementation everyone like. Please post your favorite (or least favorite) implementation of melee combat and why you liked it. Ill start with mine:
Jedi Academy. Fast paced, highly cinematic, and didnt require you to memorize a rediculous number of combo sequences. Oh yeah, and lightsabers are cool.
Jedi Academy. Fast paced, highly cinematic, and didnt require you to memorize a rediculous number of combo sequences. Oh yeah, and lightsabers are cool.
About the author
#62
05/05/2006 (7:35 pm)
Wow, I wonder if this thread is going to stay alive for a full year....it's been staying strong so far...sry to get off topic.....
#63
By the way...Richard Foge is one of the most inspirational people in combat system at least for me when his work excelled in God of War.
05/08/2006 (3:51 pm)
I'd have to say the best fighting I have experienced in video games had to be along the lines of Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, this game brought me into the MK series and was a highly inspirational game as far as a combat system went. The fluidness of the blocks, strikes, jabs and dodging was about as responsive as you could get on the PS2 at the time. Another game which further implemented the idea of a great combat system was God of War. I have beaten that game 4 times, including once on god mode and it shows how a combat system can influence a games potential.By the way...Richard Foge is one of the most inspirational people in combat system at least for me when his work excelled in God of War.
#64
05/08/2006 (4:07 pm)
Prince of Persia (sands of time and two thrones)
#65
05/08/2006 (5:21 pm)
Playboy the Mansion.
#66
I also liked the system used in the Soul Calibur series, the flow between movements worked well, and there were many methods to attack and counter attack.
05/09/2006 (10:17 am)
I liked the style in Mount & Blade, but it felt a little sluggish to me.I also liked the system used in the Soul Calibur series, the flow between movements worked well, and there were many methods to attack and counter attack.
#68
in tekken4 i think Jin, Kazuya and Lei are the best because their moves are easy to control and time well and you can develope your own style of fighting. where most of the other characters in tekken4 are more about button bashing combos IMHO.
i haven't played many RPGs but i find the combat in games like Minions of mirth and oberin very boring though i think they're both good games. i think a melee system where you have great control over your character and the moves hes doing and having the ability to develope your own style would be the ideal.
using movement (jumping, crouching, runing, side steping...) to do different moves and using terrain to your advantage would be a good system. blocking and perrying also add great depth to combat and are very satisfying to do too your opponent. special or power moves are good as well specially if they're very cinematic
if you make a game with some of the great ideas people have been posting please port it to Mac so i can play it. PLEASE!
05/14/2006 (8:24 pm)
As fighting games go Tekken series is the best.in tekken4 i think Jin, Kazuya and Lei are the best because their moves are easy to control and time well and you can develope your own style of fighting. where most of the other characters in tekken4 are more about button bashing combos IMHO.
i haven't played many RPGs but i find the combat in games like Minions of mirth and oberin very boring though i think they're both good games. i think a melee system where you have great control over your character and the moves hes doing and having the ability to develope your own style would be the ideal.
using movement (jumping, crouching, runing, side steping...) to do different moves and using terrain to your advantage would be a good system. blocking and perrying also add great depth to combat and are very satisfying to do too your opponent. special or power moves are good as well specially if they're very cinematic
if you make a game with some of the great ideas people have been posting please port it to Mac so i can play it. PLEASE!
#69
Imagine this, and fill in the blanks where needed.
You are running down a path toward your village when somebody appraoches you. You exchange a few messages then decide you hate each other (=p). So you press e (engage button) to fight. your player gets into stance and you now can use martial arts. You would use i,j,k,l to fight. i/j punch,k/l kicks. Maybe u/o modifiers (like low and high). He does a u/j attack, punching high. You cant dodge it, so you press h'j to block. You predicted it right, so you block it, leaving him stunned. You do a o/l, sending a low kick towards his shins. He pressed h/k, thinking he blocked it. Well lets say in the next second, he's taken damage.
Basically combat is truly like martial arts, where you have to predict their attack, block, and attack on your own.
I hope you get my idea, as to me it seems like it could make a AAA worthy fighting system. All about fast reflexes and superb animations of course.
I know it doesnt really answer your post, but this is my best idea...
05/18/2006 (3:07 am)
Well, after quickly scrolling through the posts, I noticed that all of these were based on an already existing concept. So I created my own.Imagine this, and fill in the blanks where needed.
You are running down a path toward your village when somebody appraoches you. You exchange a few messages then decide you hate each other (=p). So you press e (engage button) to fight. your player gets into stance and you now can use martial arts. You would use i,j,k,l to fight. i/j punch,k/l kicks. Maybe u/o modifiers (like low and high). He does a u/j attack, punching high. You cant dodge it, so you press h'j to block. You predicted it right, so you block it, leaving him stunned. You do a o/l, sending a low kick towards his shins. He pressed h/k, thinking he blocked it. Well lets say in the next second, he's taken damage.
Basically combat is truly like martial arts, where you have to predict their attack, block, and attack on your own.
I hope you get my idea, as to me it seems like it could make a AAA worthy fighting system. All about fast reflexes and superb animations of course.
I know it doesnt really answer your post, but this is my best idea...
#70
Honestly, I'm a fan of 'borrowing' concepts for each part of a system, from the best implementor of that component I've seen. E.g. for this, if you want high-accuracy, use a fighting game as your basis. Tekken, Street Fighter, etc. If the game isn't aiming explicitly for the fans of the newest fighting games, then perhaps using the combat mechanics of the older and really popular ones (street fighter 2 alpha?).
For melee in general, I have to say God of War is the most satisfying combat I've ever experienced in a game. There's enough flexibility in your attacks to make it your own, yet each command is easy to remember. Only switching the type of magic or primary weapon takes any time at all, and that's still fast. No stupid menus for weapon selection, and each weapon's honestly good for general-purpose combat. Although I would've loved a button to attack with the other weapon just once, real quick. E.g. using the blades of hades for primary assaults, but then hitting (for example) select-x and getting out my huge sword for a really damaging strike.
Another fun one is Jet Li's Rise to Honor. RTH really covers what's needed for a game when it's usually many to one opponents. Of course, the real fun is watching your character go buck wild on 3 guys at the same time, when all you did was tap the analog stick to the right. But that's part of the fantasy element we all love games for: being someone else, in a different world. Too much reality and it gets lame.
Really, the specific combat mechanics are best determined by the moves available. Do it right and it's got a nice flow (e.g. GOW: strike strike block then roll to keep the group of enemies controllable), do it wrong and it's just a pain (GTA's combat is shit. Any game requiring explicit targeting is worthless, unless it's a menu-driven RPG or something.).
The best ones seem to have the best strategies for fighting already thought out, and give the player the tools to implement them easily. Everyone hates losing a fight because their input system wasn't doing what they want. It has to be intuitive and have real flow, like the UI of any good app. And then they spend lots of time tweaking it all out to make it enjoyable.
Sorry for ranting so much about what's fairly obvious :-)
05/19/2006 (2:47 pm)
Be careful about being too accurate with the martial arts --- it gets complex real quick. Martial arts has _tons_ of details that could be added, but make the whole thing painful to play: use a fist, ridge hand, two knuckles, or the back of the wrist for attacking? Which hand goes in? Fast jab or hip-backed punch? Not to knock the original idea, just saying that it's a slippery slope, and it's best if you make the level of detail you want explicit early.Honestly, I'm a fan of 'borrowing' concepts for each part of a system, from the best implementor of that component I've seen. E.g. for this, if you want high-accuracy, use a fighting game as your basis. Tekken, Street Fighter, etc. If the game isn't aiming explicitly for the fans of the newest fighting games, then perhaps using the combat mechanics of the older and really popular ones (street fighter 2 alpha?).
For melee in general, I have to say God of War is the most satisfying combat I've ever experienced in a game. There's enough flexibility in your attacks to make it your own, yet each command is easy to remember. Only switching the type of magic or primary weapon takes any time at all, and that's still fast. No stupid menus for weapon selection, and each weapon's honestly good for general-purpose combat. Although I would've loved a button to attack with the other weapon just once, real quick. E.g. using the blades of hades for primary assaults, but then hitting (for example) select-x and getting out my huge sword for a really damaging strike.
Another fun one is Jet Li's Rise to Honor. RTH really covers what's needed for a game when it's usually many to one opponents. Of course, the real fun is watching your character go buck wild on 3 guys at the same time, when all you did was tap the analog stick to the right. But that's part of the fantasy element we all love games for: being someone else, in a different world. Too much reality and it gets lame.
Really, the specific combat mechanics are best determined by the moves available. Do it right and it's got a nice flow (e.g. GOW: strike strike block then roll to keep the group of enemies controllable), do it wrong and it's just a pain (GTA's combat is shit. Any game requiring explicit targeting is worthless, unless it's a menu-driven RPG or something.).
The best ones seem to have the best strategies for fighting already thought out, and give the player the tools to implement them easily. Everyone hates losing a fight because their input system wasn't doing what they want. It has to be intuitive and have real flow, like the UI of any good app. And then they spend lots of time tweaking it all out to make it enjoyable.
Sorry for ranting so much about what's fairly obvious :-)
#71
It was a 3D side scroller very similar to tekken force mode but with realtime stunts and stunt clips and a cartoonish feel to it. most of the time you were fighting lots of opponents excepted when fighting bosses. and you used your enviroment to your advantage and all the badies had different styles (Capeoria, Boxing, Kung Fu, karate...) which was cool. all in all it was a awesome game, but to short and had no multiplayer so it was pretty boring once you completed it.
05/19/2006 (6:09 pm)
Another game i just remembered was Jackie Chan Stunt Master on PS1; the controls were farely simple 1 button for punch, 1 button for kick, 1 button for grab or throw and 1 for jump.It was a 3D side scroller very similar to tekken force mode but with realtime stunts and stunt clips and a cartoonish feel to it. most of the time you were fighting lots of opponents excepted when fighting bosses. and you used your enviroment to your advantage and all the badies had different styles (Capeoria, Boxing, Kung Fu, karate...) which was cool. all in all it was a awesome game, but to short and had no multiplayer so it was pretty boring once you completed it.
#72
What about Rag Doll Kung Fu? I like how you controlled the limbs movement rather than pressing Space for kick or Shift for duck.
It probably couldn't be done well in a first-person environment, but in a non-fixed third person it would work if you could conceive a good control system that works well.
05/19/2006 (6:24 pm)
Quote:You would use i,j,k,l to fight. i/j punch,k/l kicks. Maybe u/o modifiers (like low and high). He does a u/j attack, punching high. You cant dodge it, so you press h'j to block. You predicted it right, so you block it, leaving him stunned. You do a o/l, sending a low kick towards his shins. He pressed h/k, thinking he blocked it. Well lets say in the next second, he's taken damage.That concept sounds alot like whats already around...
What about Rag Doll Kung Fu? I like how you controlled the limbs movement rather than pressing Space for kick or Shift for duck.
It probably couldn't be done well in a first-person environment, but in a non-fixed third person it would work if you could conceive a good control system that works well.
#73
05/21/2006 (3:49 pm)
I'm not sure if it truly counts as a "hand to hand combat" game, but I adored Manhunt.
#74
Kensai Mod
For the record, I am not the first to link my own site this thread. I, um, bear no blame right?
05/27/2006 (8:26 pm)
If anyone is still into Jedi Academy, I wrote up a 'Kensai" mod to address this very question. The animations are the same, though the mechanics are redone. I was tired of console gamers getting all the good melee, so it was basically a way to translate deep, fast, no-dice roll melee combat into the mouse/keyboard control scheme. Chains, interrupts, reversals, disarms, defence that made sense, etc.Kensai Mod
For the record, I am not the first to link my own site this thread. I, um, bear no blame right?
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