Tse As Exe
by Thomas Shaw · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 06/01/2005 (11:40 am) · 38 replies
I know this is going to sound all whiny and stuff, but:
I can't compile TSE. I have been trying to using the whole Eclipse/Msys thing and the info in the forums because it's the only thing I have available (even though I know it's not officially supported).
Previously, I had been relying on a friend who owned VC7 to compile it for me, but he is annoyed and won't do it anymore.
Why can't there be a release of self installing versions of TSE like TGE for those of us who don't need constant updates? I am mainly interested in building terrain and modelling and textures for my school senior project. It would save me (and I think, alot of other people) some frustration, who aren't all that knowledgable about compiling.
Just an .exe after each Milestone would be such a huge help. That's only 2 in the past 9(?) months that would have had to be made - doesnt seem like that big of a burden....
And yes, I realize that TSE is still beta, but it is stable enough for what I want to do with it.
Thanks for reading.
I can't compile TSE. I have been trying to using the whole Eclipse/Msys thing and the info in the forums because it's the only thing I have available (even though I know it's not officially supported).
Previously, I had been relying on a friend who owned VC7 to compile it for me, but he is annoyed and won't do it anymore.
Why can't there be a release of self installing versions of TSE like TGE for those of us who don't need constant updates? I am mainly interested in building terrain and modelling and textures for my school senior project. It would save me (and I think, alot of other people) some frustration, who aren't all that knowledgable about compiling.
Just an .exe after each Milestone would be such a huge help. That's only 2 in the past 9(?) months that would have had to be made - doesnt seem like that big of a burden....
And yes, I realize that TSE is still beta, but it is stable enough for what I want to do with it.
Thanks for reading.
#2
06/03/2005 (11:42 am)
So...The demo's run all the editors? Terrain, World insopector/creator etc.? Do I need anything from the cvs version? ..... I could do all that without having to have paid for the engine? Lol. (im glad to support GG, but still..)
#3
06/03/2005 (11:47 am)
TSE is early adopter, and many of the editors (terrain specifically) are not updated to work with the new systems, but yes, the demo for all of the Torque apps are not "limited in features"--when you purchase a Torque product, you are purchasing the source code, and the access to the brainstore of knowledge within the private forums!
#4
06/06/2005 (7:06 pm)
Are GG going to release a demo/precompiled version of TSE at each milestone? If VC6 is not going to be supported after milestone 2, that basically means that Win98 users will be forced to buy XP and VC7 (or above), thus increasing the cost of getting started by over $200.
#5
06/06/2005 (7:28 pm)
Will all Windows 98 developers please raise their hands!
#6
06/06/2005 (7:55 pm)
It would be fairer to make that request in a dedicated thread in a public forum. There are also likely to be XP owners using still using VC6.
#7
My main point still exists though, anyone serious about development will already have either 2000 or XP or some flavour of *nix. Windows 98 isn't an OS for anyone serious AT ALL, not even a power home user.
06/06/2005 (8:03 pm)
@Wysandry: Game development isn't for everyone. It requires lots of knowledge and keeping up with technology. Anyone serious about development of any kind will always be on the top of the notch in computer related stuff. Microsoft itself is not supporting vc6 anymore and considering the stupid it's compiler is I don't see how keeping support for it around is a good idea. Even then if you are serious about not wanting to buy vc7 GG is kind enough to offer alternatives that will be there when TSE is a full product, not during it's early adopter releases. This is all mentioned in the TSE's eula, so if you agreed to it when you bought it I don't see how you can complain now (aside from the fact that vc6 was going to be dropped fact).My main point still exists though, anyone serious about development will already have either 2000 or XP or some flavour of *nix. Windows 98 isn't an OS for anyone serious AT ALL, not even a power home user.
#8
I will post a dedicated thread in the private SDK forums. I don't think there's a significant influx of NEW Torque licensees using Win98.
06/06/2005 (8:18 pm)
Wysardy,I will post a dedicated thread in the private SDK forums. I don't think there's a significant influx of NEW Torque licensees using Win98.
#9
In any case, I was neither complaining, nor suggesting that VC6 continue to be supported, I was merely stating that providing precompiled versions of TSE as each milestone is completed would make it easier for many users to get started (and help find bugs).
As it says on the GG "about" page, they "want to give any and all game makers the opportunity to publish their games, find their audiences - and perhaps make their fortunes."
Without those precompiled versions, for those with Windows 98 or Me, the cost of getting started with TSE is virtually doubled ($450+ instead of $250).
06/08/2005 (3:19 pm)
Xavier: None of the points you mentioned are included in the TSE EULA. Requiring VC7 or later is also not mentioned in the product description, nor either of the TSE FAQs.In any case, I was neither complaining, nor suggesting that VC6 continue to be supported, I was merely stating that providing precompiled versions of TSE as each milestone is completed would make it easier for many users to get started (and help find bugs).
As it says on the GG "about" page, they "want to give any and all game makers the opportunity to publish their games, find their audiences - and perhaps make their fortunes."
Without those precompiled versions, for those with Windows 98 or Me, the cost of getting started with TSE is virtually doubled ($450+ instead of $250).
#10
GG's position is however that there is a certain point where you cannot let tech be held back by trying to keep backwards compatibility. For example, TSE doesn't work on a 386 machine with VGA graphics, either--because once things evolve to a certain point, you have to shift your target platforms forward. Microsoft itself does not support VC6, and TSE cannot either and continue to push the boundaries.
Providing pre-compiled binaries for platforms that aren't supported with the SDK is not a good idea, simply because people will then expect to be able to compile on those platforms as well--and in any case, GG isn't going to be able to maintain that large of a build preparation server farm to support all of the various flavors that exist now and into the future.
06/08/2005 (4:04 pm)
Let's not let this degrade into a heated discussion--each of you have good points!GG's position is however that there is a certain point where you cannot let tech be held back by trying to keep backwards compatibility. For example, TSE doesn't work on a 386 machine with VGA graphics, either--because once things evolve to a certain point, you have to shift your target platforms forward. Microsoft itself does not support VC6, and TSE cannot either and continue to push the boundaries.
Providing pre-compiled binaries for platforms that aren't supported with the SDK is not a good idea, simply because people will then expect to be able to compile on those platforms as well--and in any case, GG isn't going to be able to maintain that large of a build preparation server farm to support all of the various flavors that exist now and into the future.
#11
06/08/2005 (4:08 pm)
Thanks for the detailed information Stephen, appreciate it.
#12
06/08/2005 (4:11 pm)
And I just reviewed this topic, so I wanted to point out the way the thread kind of drifted: The original question had nothing to do with providing binaries on unsupported platforms, that's just how the thread evolved. I personally don't know if Ben plans on providing an executable for supported platforms are not...but it's not a common trend for EA products either.
#13
Whether the reason is our O/S, our compiler or something else entirely is beside the point: precompiled binaries would help us and others in a similar situation to get started and maybe even contribute to the docs and find bugs.
We're not asking for VC6 support to be retained, nor for binaries for unsupported platforms. All we're asking is that at each milestone one of the GG staff make a binary version available, which shouldn't be too difficult as they must already create them for internal use as part of the TSE development process.
Each time a new milestone is reached, the new binary could replace the previous one if server space is a problem. You could even kill two birds with one stone by releasing them as public demos (and potentially increasing sales), as a number of us have no real need to view or modify the source code at this early stage.
06/08/2005 (7:15 pm)
The original poster cannot compile TSE and neither can I.Whether the reason is our O/S, our compiler or something else entirely is beside the point: precompiled binaries would help us and others in a similar situation to get started and maybe even contribute to the docs and find bugs.
We're not asking for VC6 support to be retained, nor for binaries for unsupported platforms. All we're asking is that at each milestone one of the GG staff make a binary version available, which shouldn't be too difficult as they must already create them for internal use as part of the TSE development process.
Each time a new milestone is reached, the new binary could replace the previous one if server space is a problem. You could even kill two birds with one stone by releasing them as public demos (and potentially increasing sales), as a number of us have no real need to view or modify the source code at this early stage.
#14
So basically you already have the binary releases, since the demos are fully functional TSE binaries.
06/08/2005 (7:47 pm)
Well I think the precompiled binaries is kind of a non-issue. TSE is still and EA, and from my experience with the CVS versions of it, sometimes the code changes weekly or even more often. The code is stable, but its not done, and is still in flux. The milestone demos are probably the best way to get binary releases, since they are based on major, known to be relatively stable versions of the code.So basically you already have the binary releases, since the demos are fully functional TSE binaries.
#15
06/08/2005 (8:03 pm)
That just takes us back to my original question (which basically just rephrased the original poster's main question): Are GG going to release a demo/precompiled version of TSE at each milestone? 
#17
06/09/2005 (6:28 am)
Am I the only person that managed to compile current TSE HEAD on VC6 with no issues whatsoever ?!
#18
06/09/2005 (8:02 am)
I compiled yesterday and didnt get a single problem using vc6
#19
06/09/2005 (1:55 pm)
From TSEDoc.chm:-Quote:Milestone 2 is the last TSE release that will support VC 6.0.
Torque Owner Kevin Johnson
They have compiled exe in them, milestone 2 looks pretty close so i imagine they'll release a demo for it as well..
good luck