A Great New Idea........

#21 Don't forget to keep a day job.
Best advice I can give any indie dev. :)

#22 I'm becoming increasingly pissed off at the growing number of unconstructive and hurtful remarks posted on peoples threads.

Seriously people, if you have a nasty remark keep it to yourself. Why would you want to discourage someone?

I think Danny's game idea is well written and although its ambitious it's not fair for people to come on here and put him down. If you had worked hard on something for your project and you wanted to show the community would you really appreciate the remarks that your giving Danny.

I'm not saying that everyone on this thread is acting inappropriate but the majority of these comments are out of line. Saying simply, "I think that game is going to be a big undertaking but good luck with it anyways." Is, to me, a little more effective than "Bollocks, as if there were not enough good ideas floating around anyway. And Danny's not an idea in the first place. Its just a huge wish."
That just seems a little out of line to me.

To the people that actually posted helpful and polite constructive criticism. Great job! Your actions are truly making GarageGames a better place to visit and discuss projects that are close to our hearts.

To Danny: Good luck with your project. I know that your going to learn a lot and have a blast making your dream a reality.

(I wouldn't have even brought the negative remark thing up if it weren't for the drastic increase in hostility I've witnessed on the forums and .plans over the past couple of months. Its one thing to give constructive criticism and its quite another to be openly rude and point out how stupid you think someones project is.)

#23 I think it's a factor of:

One kid posts his idea, we all let him down nicely and tell him, while is heart's in the right place, to start smaller.

Three kids post their ideas, we all direct them to the first kid and give them a pat on the back.

Four million, six hundred and eighty-nine thousand nine hundred and six point five kids post their idea, and we all start to get a little tired of it.

#24 People have to sort of remember that this website is a dream come true for younger kids. What grade school kid wouldn't want to work on their own videogame.

If a new member comes on the forum asking for advice or criticism then I think its only fair to give them the respect they deserve and help them to the best of our ability. If after we've given that advice and they choose not to grow and except it then maybe a reality check is in order. (Although the level of sarcasm could be kept to a minimum.)

Its not fair to treat kids badly just because they are young and inexperienced. Everyone was a kid once and I'm willing to bet that 99% of us dreamed of making games at a young age. The reason Garage Games is so wonderful is because it gives kids the opportunity to work on all the wonderful things their imagination can create.

#25 Well, firstly, my comment was direct answer to Eric Johnson and not Danny. That being previous post and all. Second, I still think Danny's not idea. Idea is not a wishlist, idea involves also some ways and notes on implementation in my opinion.
Third, I dont think youre doing Danny or any other kid any good with soothing comments and "go for it" slogans. You make it appear as if his massive medieval undertaking is couple of months from completion. I think young kids need more reality checks and less self-improvement-themed slogans. Because, lets see what we have- a nice kid, not really able yet to spell properly unfortunately, with grand dream, no skills to contribute to this dream.

#26 I agree with Zach. While I was reading this thread I was like " dang, why is everyone being so harsh?" You can give the guy a reality check by just telling him what he needs to do and how and not simply by insulting him. If you give him some details like "it usually takes a team of 50 or so to make a massive online game" or something along the lines he should get the point. He obviously put some thought into his post and the idea is actually interesting. But Danny...you should be aware that something like that is a lifetime achievement. Man, everytime I learn some aspect of programming or development I find I need to learn something else. The amount and different types of knowledge it would take to make that type of game are immense.

#27 Considering he started the topic with the knowledge that it would never be made and then wrote a wishlist summary scoping extremely huge leaps of inaccurate knowledge of the core content of his wishlist, I don't find it harsh at all. There's a difference between posting about an actual project and posting about a project that will never be made.

Whenever I read comments in this topic like "go for it" or "it'll be a lifetime achievement", I have to wonder if anyone read the first...er, third (perhaps second as it is difficult to glean his train of thought) sentence compounded within his single run-on sentence in his first paragraph. I'l re-reiterate it.

Quote:one that would of never been made

If his idea were simply GTA-esque expansive worlds in a medieval setting, fine. Kind of like Morrowind. But then he began talking about his interest in history and began making up a complete fantasy game...but believing that it was based in reality. It moved from a digital reenactment of a historical life sim to Fable. Which is only a problem if he wasn't rooted in the idea that his extremely skewed viewpoint was an accurate representation of history. As a game, liberties can easily be taken and bandied about and I'll enjoy and believe it. As a history, I have some serious problems with the concept. Especially with as flawed as the history he presented is.

I don't doubt that he could find a team of like-minded young kids and make a fun game, perhaps based around technology from an elastic period. But even he knows that he couldn't make this idea a reality. Because, it's not too different than an idea I had many, many years ago while playing Ultima I. I saw a huge world, rich with every kind of interaction you could ever have. A world where you could do anything! And you had swords to swing, too. Fear my nine-year old mind. Oh, and it was in 3D, too.

Perhaps he will get on a project and I can say "Good job; keep working. Live your dream." But this isn't that project and he fully realized it before posting.

EDIT: Spelling

#28 @Danny -

I love your attention to the historical accuracy of the medieval lifestyle you dream of. Agreeingly, it's a very worthwhile endevour, though, from a technological and proffesional standpoint, it's going to take alot of development resources and project management to get a project like this even near completion. It is very plausible though, as is just about any game.

I suggest you learn what you need to know in order to develop games in general before you try jumping right into production. You can use this time to go over your ideas, thoroughly, and with an open mind to how things can work and should work for a game of this calliber, and reconstruct your ideas accordingly. In time, you will come to understand how your project can take flight, and that's when you could work on perfecting your ideas and influencing them with maybe a few stories or some artwork. Learn all you can about programming and also study up on your grammar, which is very key to being a good programmer (meanwhile, you can laugh at all the jerks who always call us dreamers stupid, meanwhile their code dosen't work because they're just as dumb themselves at times ;).

By the time you've accomplished the above, you should feel right at home here in this community and all the better, for it's just the place to be for ANY aspiring developer.

Remember though, it takes ALOT of dedication to make something like this happen, and if at any time, you doubt it's for you or you decide to take a different path through life, make sure it's what you want to do. Besides, you could always come back to it in the future when you are more understanding of what it takes to develop games.

Now, in more general terms, good luck with your endevours!

- Ronixus

#29 I cant say that I'm surprised by the lack of compassion I'm finding. All I will say is that it hurts me.

#30 Look at the projects page. Then tell me about compassion for projects that are acknowledged to be never completed. The projects there are a wasteland of dreams, but the difference was that they thought they would be completed. This is after a massive recalculation of dead projects from the pre-google server days. Read the gamedev.net forum archives for more. For a fun exercise, read the GB/C/A development communities on Yahoo!. Read the Yaroze! communities as well because everyone wanted to make a game for the PSX. Notice the signal to noise ratio...if you can find a signal. A number of them are managed now, but they weren't before, so the archives are the place to find broken dreams, if you are so inclined.

It's easy to marginalize broken dreams to focus on those that exist, just as it's easy to marginalize indie games in comparison to their commercial alternatives. Just because I choose to marginalize broken dreams and focus on indie games rather than their commercial counterparts, is that a lack of compassion? I guess it could be. I still buy every Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, and Mario game that comes out so perhaps my sense of focus is broken. Am I callous? Definitely. Do I think he shouldn't approach his dreams? Not a chance. This isn't a dream he thought he could approach. He even acknowledged that.

#31 His words were "one that would of never been made" in the context of the sentence I don't know how you see that he acknowledged what your saying.

I'm not here to debate other games or other peoples projects and broken dreams. Nothing you said changes the fact that you are being overly opinionated and rude. I really don't see how you can take things out of context so easily and spin them to justify your behavior.

The ONLY point I'm making is that it is completely unnecessary to be rude. Neither of us have anything to gain from arguing but everyone in the community benefits from general courtesy.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

#32 I feel that his context was clear. He stated that he had an idea that would never be made and then he laid out the idea. Grammar, spelling, historical inaccuracy aside, he was creating a representational framework which would never exist, but which he thought should. My criticism was on the side of historical inaccuracy as relating to his impressions of horribly disjunction and projecting modern impressions upon an already inaccurate impression of the historical record (which is in and of itself an impression of "traditional" scholarship).

Am I opinionated? Sure. You can sift through my history and see a number of opinions. Doing so would be as much of an exercise in relevancy as searching through fFinal Fantasy fan fiction on how Tifa's breasts will eventually save the world at the expense of any man who is smothered between them. You may be able to get an anthopological grant to do so, but your graduate committee should shut that down as it breaks no new ground and simply reinforces the common fan fiction literature tract.

Am I rude? I definitely can be. Perhaps I should be banned. Let GG know. They'll take appropriate action, even if it's that I can't post. If I'm a community detriment, let them know. Chances are, they already do.

Am I rude in this topic? Hmmm. My crack at his historical inaccuracy, sure. Everything else, nah. My opinion, sure. But there's a bit of context that's added to my posts as well. As a historical reenactment, this is a complete and utter failure at medieval comprehension. As a game, there are elements that could be fun. But the combinations of the two within the framework he has laid out is horrendously off-kilter.

Perhaps it's the conflict theorist in me that thrives on active enforement rather than passive reinforcement. If I post something, and someone smacks it down, I learn. I can learn from both constructive criticism and non-constructive criticism. Both are modal in nature. Constructive criticism is an evaluative technique that often based on general knowledge of the subject (your textures are striated; try a hi-pass filter and then adjust contrast to see if it improves them). Non-constructive criticism is often based on gut reactions (WTF! dude, ur texturz suk! LOL). Both play into an active framework for evaluation (with the constructive higher on the list but the non-constructive as a qualifier).

Perhaps I've learned more from the people who challenge me than I've learned from people who say "good job!" Pat me on the head and go on with their lives with me learning nothing except to not ask them for criticism. Maybe it's that I've been smacked down professionally and academically for my own preconceived notions and am jaded and unconventionally harsh because I think that others need to learn from their mistakes rather than having mistakes reinforced. Perhaps 'm incorporating what has helped me (whether he or others can recognize it). Unnatural scope is a big mistake, but he qualified it by saying that it would never be made.

As it is, I'm glad that I did. He may read a little more information on the nebulous period he references. He may also make an actual game that utilizes some of his good gaming ideas while stripping 90 percentile. One can make an engaging game of darts centered around shooting a target as Robin Hood without caring about the historical accuracy of the Robin Hood hero myth and historical relevancy is negligible.

Courtesy is an interesting concept, but I don't think I've been discourteous (except, admittedly, in response to historical accuracy). I don't see anything I've quoted as a justification for my posts. I've used it as an associative reflection on what others have posted. Not my own.

My "justification" comes from my bias, just as yours does. And such justification eludes categorization as your categories and mine are most likely quite different.

#33 I apologize, my intention wasn't to put you down. My overall point wasn't directed solely at you. I'm just drawing attention to the fact that the community, as a whole, needs to be a little less abrasive.

I believe the GarageGames experience is ruined for some people who get put down and leave with hurt feelings. Sometimes all of us come of as sarcastic and mean. I think it's the nature of this community to be fun and tease amongst friends. Having said that I also think its completely inappropriate to make fun of a little kids idea and put him down.

Admittedly I'm just as opinionated as anyone else. I only hope you wont take my beliefs as an insult to your ideals. I believe that we all want this to be a friendly and open place. In my heart I know we can voice our opinions without a need for discourtesy.

#34 Seeing as how our project has a lot of difficult milestones ahead and is indeed full of vision Im tempted not to post this, but here goes.

I guess Im just wondering why the original poster has to title his thread "A Great New Idea" when it's neither great or new.

Dont get me wrong, its interesting, but cant you see that calling your OWN idea great is a tad egotistical? Post the idea if you want (you do have to attract people to help), but also post what you are going to do on the project (besides ideas and PR) and show more of a thought out plan instead of a ramble.

New people have to learn somewhere. Hell Im learning everyday on our project. I just think you should abbreviate your text a bit, spell better, and be a bit more realistic.

Best of luck with getting it made.

Alfred Norris
CONFLICT: Omega

#35 Hadnt read all of it but even the 2/3 of the first fellt realy ambitious. why not try to make one starting game and then 30 expansions or so... im sure you have material for it.

#36 Danny, the idea is fine but I don't see any skills as a programmer listed. You do know that you can't just sell ideas right? How are you going to make the game? Its not about marketing...its about work. Oh, and check your spelling too. You won't look professional if you can't spell words like "career" correctly. Good luck though and keep thinking.

Danny youre idee is greath but hard to make without investers and good team, also to people that dont take people serious that dont can write proper english, i can say only one thing, how serious we have to see you?

We at europe know more as one language, and its already hard for us to write english, dutch, german, france, so shame youreself and respect every one as he is, and Danny i have same ideas for years buth its to hard to make it, i have solutions worked out to make a kinda world, but we as dreamers they dont take us serious.

btw i have seen that Danny's post was from 2005 lol, but wanna give my opinion anyway:P

What i really like to see btw is that GarageGames with there knowledge and contacts with big resellers of games that they are open to make several games with us dreamers, i play games for 27 years and have lot of orginal (^^) idea's.

Also most people think maybe abouth what Danny like to see in a game, that it's not posible.

It is posible, even more is posible.

Regards and good luck all with youre project:)

#37 It's already few years ago and found still some url's where you can download my work:), so buy dungeon siege and download Steel's World "The Bone Invasion"its a MultiPlay world but you can play it alone also if ya are strong:P

I have build 38 huge levels in all kinda envoriments that was posible with the engine+content, i did al alone in a smal amount of time, after 4 months there where more as 500.000 downloads. My Mod was also at many cover cd's from populair game magazines. It was a lot of work to make it and did not make any penny with it but gived a lot of respect that so many people loved it and had lot of fun playing it:)

My dream is still to be a part of a game team as level designer + thinker to improve the game we make as best as posible.

If you can use a gametester / bugfinder + giving idee's to make youre game beter without more work please mail me, dont need payment for it either, its just hobby for me. xaroc@live.nl

http://www.fileplanet.com/134140/130000/fileinfo/Steel's-World-II---The-Bone-Invasion-%5BLoA-Edition%5D

http://files.filefront.com/Steels+World+II+++The+Bone+Invasion+LoA+Edition/;3936053;/fileinfo.html

http://software.techrepublic.com.com/download.aspx?&docid=191329&promo=100511

http://www.ex-po.ru/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=exebition&vist_in=10340&wws=1

http://www.fileshack.com/file.x?fid=3169

#38 I think you guys scared him away....

#39 Maybe he was scared away, but basically a game like that wouldn't work. People really do need guidance, like questing/missions/reasons for actions. A game like detailed above (which isn't even total freedom) has been made, in a sense before, but failed miserably. It was a mod game where you could create any sort of skill, any type of weapon/world, etc. It was actually fun for about a day or so, but after that (once you blew up your world and everyone in it) it was boring and anything but fun.

Pretty much people need guidelines and rules of accomplishment. Many (if not all) mmos or rpgs for that matter don't put much detail into reasons for playing or character development beyond smashing your opponent to bits. Game ideas like this are actually pretty vague even though it took you 3 posts to write it all out. It's the details that make or break games in general.

#40 I would agree in most part with Jason. I have played a few games of this style, and its true you do get bored after awhile. I'm not saying the idea in general is all bad but, a game needs to have a goal to keep players interested. I aslo have a dream idea for a game that never ends. I am currently working on creating that dream but have found the reality to be much harder than I originally thought. I would say to stick to your dreams and work hard to bring them to life. Through my journies thus far, I have found that the game industry is alot more limited in the sense of just how far you can go. But if you keep at it, you can get fairly close your dream.