Using Torque
by Maik "5K" Haehnel · in Torque Game Engine · 01/10/2002 (9:20 am) · 4 replies
Hi all,
currently we are developing a simple 3d game using the WildTangent Webdriver kernel API. but last year WT stopped developing and supporting the kernel api and set a focus to theire webdriver witihn a web browser.
Currently the webdriver engine has bsp and you can add objects of your own easily. But the webdriver kernel api gfxcard support and feature list isn't up2date and never will be.
So we are looking for a new 3d engine and read about the Torque engine. There are not enough information about it.
How we have to use this engine and add content, via script only or is it like every engine has to be used (kernel api).
like this.
(really simple example code!!!)
CEngine engine.
engine.Setmode(1024,768,32);
CWorld world;
world.Load("blabla.map");
engine.Add(world);
engine.Render();
etc......
Is it like this stuff? does the engine has a build in bsp? How those bsp maps are being created?
Can this engine also be used for any othrt game type or only for shooter games?
Are there any examples and demonstrations out there?
Are there Source code examples???
We do not need a complete game, but some simple examples
so we can see what the engine can do.
100$ is such a low price, but we do not invest 100$ if the engine does not fit in our future developments.
Thanks a lot for your answers.
Maik "5K" Haehnel
5K Productions
www.5k-productions.com
currently we are developing a simple 3d game using the WildTangent Webdriver kernel API. but last year WT stopped developing and supporting the kernel api and set a focus to theire webdriver witihn a web browser.
Currently the webdriver engine has bsp and you can add objects of your own easily. But the webdriver kernel api gfxcard support and feature list isn't up2date and never will be.
So we are looking for a new 3d engine and read about the Torque engine. There are not enough information about it.
How we have to use this engine and add content, via script only or is it like every engine has to be used (kernel api).
like this.
(really simple example code!!!)
CEngine engine.
engine.Setmode(1024,768,32);
CWorld world;
world.Load("blabla.map");
engine.Add(world);
engine.Render();
etc......
Is it like this stuff? does the engine has a build in bsp? How those bsp maps are being created?
Can this engine also be used for any othrt game type or only for shooter games?
Are there any examples and demonstrations out there?
Are there Source code examples???
We do not need a complete game, but some simple examples
so we can see what the engine can do.
100$ is such a low price, but we do not invest 100$ if the engine does not fit in our future developments.
Thanks a lot for your answers.
Maik "5K" Haehnel
5K Productions
www.5k-productions.com
About the author
#2
You say "simple code" but that is similar to languages like blitz basic or Dark Basic.
Of course... it's also similar to C++.
Do you want to know if it has built in commands to make most things simplified?
loadModel("Modelname.dts);
moveObject(x,y,z);
stuff like that (simplified c++/basic)
or what?
Much of main functions are already defined within the engine, and many of the important features are fairly automated.
It all depends on where you want to go with it. A game can be done with little programming (all scripting) because most of the basic features are there for a simple Deathmatch style of game.
If you are going for a single player game you'll pry be needing the most programming... well just second to an (impossible) MMORPG.
Next would have to be an online RPG since so many things would have to be tracked, of course there are a few of these being worked on (notably, Myrmrdian or whatever... I can't remember how to spell it)
Can you possibly rephrase the question? I'm unsure if you are asking if the engine is basically a game template (plug in the content and you're set) or if it's using customized languages to simplify specfic commands...
It is both... but only if you are going to make a really shallow game.
01/15/2002 (6:57 pm)
You could do it that way... but I'm slightly confused with what you are referring you.You say "simple code" but that is similar to languages like blitz basic or Dark Basic.
Of course... it's also similar to C++.
Do you want to know if it has built in commands to make most things simplified?
loadModel("Modelname.dts);
moveObject(x,y,z);
stuff like that (simplified c++/basic)
or what?
Much of main functions are already defined within the engine, and many of the important features are fairly automated.
It all depends on where you want to go with it. A game can be done with little programming (all scripting) because most of the basic features are there for a simple Deathmatch style of game.
If you are going for a single player game you'll pry be needing the most programming... well just second to an (impossible) MMORPG.
Next would have to be an online RPG since so many things would have to be tracked, of course there are a few of these being worked on (notably, Myrmrdian or whatever... I can't remember how to spell it)
Can you possibly rephrase the question? I'm unsure if you are asking if the engine is basically a game template (plug in the content and you're set) or if it's using customized languages to simplify specfic commands...
It is both... but only if you are going to make a really shallow game.
#3
Now we have purchased the engine and have serious troubles. Maybe you can answer my post at
http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=forums&page=result.thread&qt=3085
Anyway some comments and answers to your statements.
The main problem I have is to understand the engine and how to code it.
We want to implement two games. First is a single player & multiplayer shooter game.
Look at www.5k-productions.com (section Infinity)
This shooter is being implemented with the WebDriver engine (works on Geforce cards, others untested).
In this program we had a framework which does the following (simplified)
main() {
Systems.Open(); //open graphic, sound, input
retvalue=Menu(); //show the menu items
LoadWorld(retvalue) // loads the world and does initialisation
while (run) {
GetInput();
Player.Stuff(); //gravitiy, collision, movement...
RenderFrame(); //do the graphic stuff
}
}
Sure Menu can call a simple Function script.Execute("menus/main.scriptfile") to have such stuff more dynamic.
This we had to program in Webdriver and we want to do that also with Torque. But my problem is, that I try to understand all the C++ header files and try to find out how to do things. Example, can someone tell me how to initialise the graphic device. There are platform classes but each device I tested failed at compile time. Even linking is a problem (see the link above)
With simple code examples I mean, some C++ simple examples. One example which shows how to initialise all devices (graphics, sound, input). Another example of how to load a terrain, setup a camera and let them rotate. Etc... etc...
Such simple examples tell the programmer how the engine is working and its classes are communicating. Due to the bad documentation (no examples!!! and not finished yet) we need such small examples to understand it. My feeling until now is, that most developers here are using script and do not start by scratch with C++. If I'm wrong please correct me, but script questions will be ansered in one day and my C++ questions is not be answered until now. So all seem to be use script instead of C++. Did someone tried to start an own application where you open devices, init menus and load worlds, terrains by yourself without using the torque demo application and changing that C++ code and scripts? If yes I would appreciated to have contact with those guys.
Thats what we need for our second game. This isn't using fps features and so we have to start by scratch.
Btw: What is MMORPG (MMO i cant identify)
Hope that helps a little bit...
If someone is interested in the sourcecode of the Infinity-Webdriver shooter please contact me at
5k@5k-productions.com (so you can see which framework we built until now)
Thanks a lot for any comments
Maik
01/16/2002 (9:26 am)
Hi Matt,Now we have purchased the engine and have serious troubles. Maybe you can answer my post at
http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=forums&page=result.thread&qt=3085
Anyway some comments and answers to your statements.
The main problem I have is to understand the engine and how to code it.
We want to implement two games. First is a single player & multiplayer shooter game.
Look at www.5k-productions.com (section Infinity)
This shooter is being implemented with the WebDriver engine (works on Geforce cards, others untested).
In this program we had a framework which does the following (simplified)
main() {
Systems.Open(); //open graphic, sound, input
retvalue=Menu(); //show the menu items
LoadWorld(retvalue) // loads the world and does initialisation
while (run) {
GetInput();
Player.Stuff(); //gravitiy, collision, movement...
RenderFrame(); //do the graphic stuff
}
}
Sure Menu can call a simple Function script.Execute("menus/main.scriptfile") to have such stuff more dynamic.
This we had to program in Webdriver and we want to do that also with Torque. But my problem is, that I try to understand all the C++ header files and try to find out how to do things. Example, can someone tell me how to initialise the graphic device. There are platform classes but each device I tested failed at compile time. Even linking is a problem (see the link above)
With simple code examples I mean, some C++ simple examples. One example which shows how to initialise all devices (graphics, sound, input). Another example of how to load a terrain, setup a camera and let them rotate. Etc... etc...
Such simple examples tell the programmer how the engine is working and its classes are communicating. Due to the bad documentation (no examples!!! and not finished yet) we need such small examples to understand it. My feeling until now is, that most developers here are using script and do not start by scratch with C++. If I'm wrong please correct me, but script questions will be ansered in one day and my C++ questions is not be answered until now. So all seem to be use script instead of C++. Did someone tried to start an own application where you open devices, init menus and load worlds, terrains by yourself without using the torque demo application and changing that C++ code and scripts? If yes I would appreciated to have contact with those guys.
Thats what we need for our second game. This isn't using fps features and so we have to start by scratch.
Btw: What is MMORPG (MMO i cant identify)
Hope that helps a little bit...
If someone is interested in the sourcecode of the Infinity-Webdriver shooter please contact me at
5k@5k-productions.com (so you can see which framework we built until now)
Thanks a lot for any comments
Maik
#4
Making a GOOD and LONG TIME PLAYABLE MMORPG is another much more complicated dice, but is not "impossible".. it has been already done (everquest, ultima online, dark age of camelot). The reason most people dont want to mess with mmorpgs is because they require maintenance LOTS of maintenance, you cant just create a mmorpg and go and do something else you need people taking care of the server status, helping players, you need to give new things for the players to do etc, etc. and this can last for years to come. This is the real reason why most mmorpgs require a monthly fee.
In the future as the web advances and more broadband connections arise, we wont only have mmorpgs, we will also have MMO RTS (strategy games they are some already) and even MMO FPS.. (action shooting games where hundreds of players play at the same time)
A MMORPG (for those who dont know) stands for "massive multimedia online RPG" it means is an rpg where hundreds or maybe thousands of players can play at the same time, (Im not sure if theres a minimum required, but I believe more than 100 players in an online persistent game is considered "massive") and their stats,items and progress stay saved in a server, instead of just joining a game and losing everything you got after a round, everything you've got stays there forever. (well at least until the server is permanently shutdown)
Torque Is no exception for making mmorpgs, however (as mentioned several times before) it needs to be very modified in order to work, you need to be able to save stats on a permanent dbase, you must get rid of the "action" "code and replace it with per turn or "auto attack" code. you must simplify the netcode (you will only run in server->client mode and clients will never be servers) minimize packets. (possibly compress them in a "no quality loss, minimum performance loss code before sending them) add lots of security , etc, etc.
AND... you also have to get a GOOD server with LOTS of bandwidth for testing. (at least to get decent framerates with lots of players and no lag)
So as mentioned, is not EASY but then nothing worth the effort is.
Now we will continue with our regularly scheduled topic:
01/16/2002 (10:04 am)
Why everybody always say the same about mmorpgs? making an mmorpg is not imposible.. is easy. you can do a mmorpg in ASP using mysql to store the player stats, and DHTML or Flash for the graphics (it wont be 3D but it would be cool =) ) I have seen mmorpgs made on Java, delphi, visual-basic, c, etc. any language that has netcode and is able to store data in server databases can be used to make an MMORPG. Making a GOOD and LONG TIME PLAYABLE MMORPG is another much more complicated dice, but is not "impossible".. it has been already done (everquest, ultima online, dark age of camelot). The reason most people dont want to mess with mmorpgs is because they require maintenance LOTS of maintenance, you cant just create a mmorpg and go and do something else you need people taking care of the server status, helping players, you need to give new things for the players to do etc, etc. and this can last for years to come. This is the real reason why most mmorpgs require a monthly fee.
In the future as the web advances and more broadband connections arise, we wont only have mmorpgs, we will also have MMO RTS (strategy games they are some already) and even MMO FPS.. (action shooting games where hundreds of players play at the same time)
A MMORPG (for those who dont know) stands for "massive multimedia online RPG" it means is an rpg where hundreds or maybe thousands of players can play at the same time, (Im not sure if theres a minimum required, but I believe more than 100 players in an online persistent game is considered "massive") and their stats,items and progress stay saved in a server, instead of just joining a game and losing everything you got after a round, everything you've got stays there forever. (well at least until the server is permanently shutdown)
Torque Is no exception for making mmorpgs, however (as mentioned several times before) it needs to be very modified in order to work, you need to be able to save stats on a permanent dbase, you must get rid of the "action" "code and replace it with per turn or "auto attack" code. you must simplify the netcode (you will only run in server->client mode and clients will never be servers) minimize packets. (possibly compress them in a "no quality loss, minimum performance loss code before sending them) add lots of security , etc, etc.
AND... you also have to get a GOOD server with LOTS of bandwidth for testing. (at least to get decent framerates with lots of players and no lag)
So as mentioned, is not EASY but then nothing worth the effort is.
Now we will continue with our regularly scheduled topic:
Torque Owner Luc Jordan
Most stuff you can do at all you can do in script. In fac,t as far as content creating goes, you don't do it in script, you do it in a graphical editor. You make your own buildings in Worldcraft, and you just drop them into the game in the editor. Quick fast easy. You like?
Jeez, didn't you see pictures from Tribes 2? Then you'd know the engine can handle any type of game, from a Quake 2 game to a flight sim to a racing game. How much coding you need to do depends on how many new features you want to add; if you want super-realistic physics for a racing game, you'll need to code. Etc etc. Bottom line, though, is that if you're SERIOUS about making games, you'll be coding anyway. Nobody ever made a REAL game without hardcoding. And as C-like as the script is, you might as well code as script . . .