Indie Website Template
by Michael \"Evic\" Wales · in Torque Game Builder · 04/15/2005 (12:59 pm) · 28 replies
After reading Phil Carlisle's Plan a few weeks ago I started putting some heavy duty work into an Indie Website Template package. I have a lot of the backend work done on it and a strong set of features I think will prove useful to not only the T2D community but the TGE and TSE communities as well (I'm just posting this post here because I personally, am more active within this community).
So, below is a quick description of where I'm heading with this, and I look forward to your comments and suggestions:
- The entire "system" is written in PHP with a MySQL backend (although a file operated backend will be released as well, for those without database access).
- Many ways to customize the site to your needs, both manually and through control panels (ie. image replacement via simple control panels, CSS editing via control panels).
- Content Management allowing you to create/edit/delete pages on the website without knowing any HTML
- Navigation Management allowing you total control over your website's navigational "tree"
- File Management to provide statistics on files, downloads, and provide accurate past version information to your users
- Screenshot Gallery w/ categorization of images if necessary
- Forums
- Template engine (with 5-6 official templates) allowing developer's the ability to modify their website with the utmost control
- Logo Designer through a simple control panel
I will also be including various "modules" for use by the indie team themselves, such as:
- Project Management allowing a team to adequately plan out their tasks, schedule, etc.
- Finance Management (maybe, unsure as of now) for basic tracking of company finances, primarily expenses
- Team Management will allow the Webmaster to add members to the team, define their permissions on the website, and their status within the team - this info will be used to generate your Staff page visitors will see.
- Version Management is a web-based CVS of sorts, with various options such as automatic backup, file check-in/out, file locking, etc.
I'm really trying to make this as simple as possible through the use of control panels for users without much experience, while also keeping it modular and powerful enough that the experienced user will be able to manually make modifications they would like. Speaking of it's modularity, user's will also be able to program their own modules, simply drop them in a folder, and activate them from within the Webmaster Control Panel.
So, I am curious as to what you guys think, if you would use it, what other features you would like to see, etc. The option of approaching GG for distribution has crossed my mind, but I am unsure if this is a product that really falls under their focus. Would you be willing to pay for a product of this nature, of course with technical support, documentation, etc. Would you be willing to use a free license of this product if it included my personal Google Ads code?
So, below is a quick description of where I'm heading with this, and I look forward to your comments and suggestions:
- The entire "system" is written in PHP with a MySQL backend (although a file operated backend will be released as well, for those without database access).
- Many ways to customize the site to your needs, both manually and through control panels (ie. image replacement via simple control panels, CSS editing via control panels).
- Content Management allowing you to create/edit/delete pages on the website without knowing any HTML
- Navigation Management allowing you total control over your website's navigational "tree"
- File Management to provide statistics on files, downloads, and provide accurate past version information to your users
- Screenshot Gallery w/ categorization of images if necessary
- Forums
- Template engine (with 5-6 official templates) allowing developer's the ability to modify their website with the utmost control
- Logo Designer through a simple control panel
I will also be including various "modules" for use by the indie team themselves, such as:
- Project Management allowing a team to adequately plan out their tasks, schedule, etc.
- Finance Management (maybe, unsure as of now) for basic tracking of company finances, primarily expenses
- Team Management will allow the Webmaster to add members to the team, define their permissions on the website, and their status within the team - this info will be used to generate your Staff page visitors will see.
- Version Management is a web-based CVS of sorts, with various options such as automatic backup, file check-in/out, file locking, etc.
I'm really trying to make this as simple as possible through the use of control panels for users without much experience, while also keeping it modular and powerful enough that the experienced user will be able to manually make modifications they would like. Speaking of it's modularity, user's will also be able to program their own modules, simply drop them in a folder, and activate them from within the Webmaster Control Panel.
So, I am curious as to what you guys think, if you would use it, what other features you would like to see, etc. The option of approaching GG for distribution has crossed my mind, but I am unsure if this is a product that really falls under their focus. Would you be willing to pay for a product of this nature, of course with technical support, documentation, etc. Would you be willing to use a free license of this product if it included my personal Google Ads code?
#2
I think both Phil and I feel the same way, and we're not encouraging the loss of artistic freedom. If anything our ideas promote it. With what I am working on the webmaster doesn't have to worry about how he's going to write a screenshot gallery script, or how to best handle a new news article. They can simply worry about the layout of the page and the graphics on that page, while letting my framework handle all of the rest (actually managing the content).
04/15/2005 (1:28 pm)
@JohnI think both Phil and I feel the same way, and we're not encouraging the loss of artistic freedom. If anything our ideas promote it. With what I am working on the webmaster doesn't have to worry about how he's going to write a screenshot gallery script, or how to best handle a new news article. They can simply worry about the layout of the page and the graphics on that page, while letting my framework handle all of the rest (actually managing the content).
#3
04/15/2005 (1:29 pm)
There's definitely a difference between content management and visual presentation of a web site. I think it's an interesting start.
#4
If you can get away from that then thats great, but I don't think i've ever seen it done.
04/15/2005 (1:31 pm)
But haven't you ever noticed how you can almost always tell that a website you're on uses a CMS? They all look the same. Sure the layout is a bit different, but they look and feel like a CMS.If you can get away from that then thats great, but I don't think i've ever seen it done.
#5
Saying that this template would make all sites look the same seems to me like saying that all TGE or T2D games will look the same. Just because the backend/etc. is the same does not preclude you from making creative changes if desired.
I'd rather concentrate on my game/etc. rather than creating a website, so if you can get me 85% of the way, with something that I can customize easily as-needed, I'd be very happy.
Mike
04/15/2005 (1:56 pm)
I would look forward to something like this as I don't really have any interest in figuring-out how to do layers, pixel-perfect-layout, and all of the other stuff that's required for a "nice" looking site. I've tried Mambo, Drupal, etc. but those are simply too much for my needs.Saying that this template would make all sites look the same seems to me like saying that all TGE or T2D games will look the same. Just because the backend/etc. is the same does not preclude you from making creative changes if desired.
I'd rather concentrate on my game/etc. rather than creating a website, so if you can get me 85% of the way, with something that I can customize easily as-needed, I'd be very happy.
Mike
#6
I think anything that helps people have a basis to start with is an awesome idea
04/15/2005 (2:13 pm)
The great thing about templates is that they are templates. There basically all you need to get started. There is nothing that says you can't change how it looks. There are plenty of popular templates out there that look nothing like there original.I think anything that helps people have a basis to start with is an awesome idea
#7
All that really matters is the user experience, not the backend implementation. Just like creating a game.
04/15/2005 (2:28 pm)
I'm using a CMS, and it's saved me countless hours of boring PHP programming which gives me features I wouldn't otherwise bother to create. When I need to, I dig into the source and change stuff. I'm gradually getting everything customized. I'm not sure what a "CMS website" looks like, anyway. :)All that really matters is the user experience, not the backend implementation. Just like creating a game.
#8
Michael - good luck with this endeavor - I'm not sure what your objective is, but I was VERY confused by your including a "Logo Designer through a simple control panel" are thinking icon layout tool? A 'quality' Logo Designer and simple control panel seem diametrically apposed - as even state-of-the-art logo design tools usually yield very bad results.
04/15/2005 (2:29 pm)
I'm interested to see how this initative takes shape - if you need to make trade-offs between truly brilliant web art and paying to create what could be done with a solid template container I'd say go for the look. I understand John's concern, but I'd have to say... have you ever noticed that most indie game dev. game sites are pretty uninspiring? I rarely goto one and come away inspired and thinking I can't wait to play that game... there are exceptions. Michael - good luck with this endeavor - I'm not sure what your objective is, but I was VERY confused by your including a "Logo Designer through a simple control panel" are thinking icon layout tool? A 'quality' Logo Designer and simple control panel seem diametrically apposed - as even state-of-the-art logo design tools usually yield very bad results.
#9
The Logo Designer was sort of a last-minute idea I have come up with, as I continue to think of how to make it very easy for people w/ little to no website design experience. It would essentially be a series of generic logos I would make, in which the text on them is editable via the Logo control panel, and dynamically placed on the image via PHP.
As I've read over people's posts it seems as if most people are confident enough in their abilities to design the layout and appearance of their sites, but lack the time or knowledge create good content management tools (CMS, Snapshot Gallery, Forums, File Management, etc) to make the use of their website easier.
I've altered my planning a bit, and here's what I'm looking at so far:
There will be a base release, that will primarily contain the basic framework, the template engine, and various templates. This release will be for those who are comfortable in designing their website themselves, they just need some help on the management side of things.
For those that need a bit more help, with design issues, easy image replacement, etc. I will release a series of modules to be dropped into the base release that will add this functionality.
04/15/2005 (2:56 pm)
@JayThe Logo Designer was sort of a last-minute idea I have come up with, as I continue to think of how to make it very easy for people w/ little to no website design experience. It would essentially be a series of generic logos I would make, in which the text on them is editable via the Logo control panel, and dynamically placed on the image via PHP.
As I've read over people's posts it seems as if most people are confident enough in their abilities to design the layout and appearance of their sites, but lack the time or knowledge create good content management tools (CMS, Snapshot Gallery, Forums, File Management, etc) to make the use of their website easier.
I've altered my planning a bit, and here's what I'm looking at so far:
There will be a base release, that will primarily contain the basic framework, the template engine, and various templates. This release will be for those who are comfortable in designing their website themselves, they just need some help on the management side of things.
For those that need a bit more help, with design issues, easy image replacement, etc. I will release a series of modules to be dropped into the base release that will add this functionality.
#10
04/15/2005 (3:09 pm)
Sounds good to me! I'd just be interested in the backend stuff personally. 
#11
04/15/2005 (3:13 pm)
Very very interesting... I'd probably be interested in the back end stuff also... always fun to see what people can do with PHP and MySQL... I'm a major advocate of both
#12
04/15/2005 (8:37 pm)
I'd love to see this come to fruition! Big encouragement from me :)
#13
Thanks for your help as always, and I'll keep you guys informed!
04/15/2005 (10:05 pm)
I have posted a .plan which goes into more detail on where I am headed with this project in a technical sense. Much of this was decided on today after quite a bit of research and reading the opinions of those people who have replied to this topic.Thanks for your help as always, and I'll keep you guys informed!
#14
Functionality I think every indie website needs:
- blogging tool
- FAQ tool
- Front page with dynamic content (latest news, latest game, latest patch etc)
- Forums please please please
- Newsletter sign-up
- All the user info and id is integrated, nothing stupider than having to keep signing into different part of the website
- Focus on functionality... let CSS control the look
- RSS not just one but different parts... some guys blogs are full of technical mumbo jumbo that a lot of games players are not interest in, let them rss just to the game related content
- Remember we are programmers... you don't have to dumb it down... just make is clear how to use
- Be SURE to include at least a rudimentary game profile section with the ability to have more than one and sort by genre
- Ticket./Support some way that user can enter a complaint... watch its progress and search other tickets looking for a similar problem.
- Wiki wouldn't it be great if the users of your game start building content for themselvesand collaborating via wiki!!!
- Source Control I HIGHLY recommend you check out subversion before you do some sort of CVS implementation, CVS is slowing being replace by subversion everywhere
- Rights control some easy way to ensure your paying customers have access to the right keys and downloads.
This is asking a lot I know, but as someone who wants to focus on game making I'd love a website solution that handles things for me without a bunch of hassle. I'd gladly pay $500 for it if it made my life easy and solved the indie game maker's problems. Even better if you hosted the whole thing so I don't have to worry about upgrades, security blaa blaa blaa, I'd pay $40 a month.
04/26/2005 (7:56 pm)
I've been searching for an indie website solution for a long while. I HIGHLY encourage this effort.Functionality I think every indie website needs:
- blogging tool
- FAQ tool
- Front page with dynamic content (latest news, latest game, latest patch etc)
- Forums please please please
- Newsletter sign-up
- All the user info and id is integrated, nothing stupider than having to keep signing into different part of the website
- Focus on functionality... let CSS control the look
- RSS not just one but different parts... some guys blogs are full of technical mumbo jumbo that a lot of games players are not interest in, let them rss just to the game related content
- Remember we are programmers... you don't have to dumb it down... just make is clear how to use
- Be SURE to include at least a rudimentary game profile section with the ability to have more than one and sort by genre
- Ticket./Support some way that user can enter a complaint... watch its progress and search other tickets looking for a similar problem.
- Wiki wouldn't it be great if the users of your game start building content for themselvesand collaborating via wiki!!!
- Source Control I HIGHLY recommend you check out subversion before you do some sort of CVS implementation, CVS is slowing being replace by subversion everywhere
- Rights control some easy way to ensure your paying customers have access to the right keys and downloads.
This is asking a lot I know, but as someone who wants to focus on game making I'd love a website solution that handles things for me without a bunch of hassle. I'd gladly pay $500 for it if it made my life easy and solved the indie game maker's problems. Even better if you hosted the whole thing so I don't have to worry about upgrades, security blaa blaa blaa, I'd pay $40 a month.
#15
First, a lot of what you are recommending is in the final plan, so that's good news there. What you mentioned that is not in the final plan, I pretty much concur with, so it will be :)
Second, your post actually made me stop being lazy and get to work on this thing some more! Good job!
As for a status update, I have the backend pretty well layed out logically, yet not in code. I really ought to scan some of my notes for this thing and put them in my next .plan - they are scary to say the least. I'm going to start getting all of my logic into actual code form tonight hopefully and start working on the frontend stuff as soon as possible.
Once that is done I will be doing a template or two myself, and then contacting the good people at GG to see if they are interested at all in supporting this product.
04/26/2005 (9:04 pm)
Thanks for the comments Philip, they have done more than you can imagine!First, a lot of what you are recommending is in the final plan, so that's good news there. What you mentioned that is not in the final plan, I pretty much concur with, so it will be :)
Second, your post actually made me stop being lazy and get to work on this thing some more! Good job!
As for a status update, I have the backend pretty well layed out logically, yet not in code. I really ought to scan some of my notes for this thing and put them in my next .plan - they are scary to say the least. I'm going to start getting all of my logic into actual code form tonight hopefully and start working on the frontend stuff as soon as possible.
Once that is done I will be doing a template or two myself, and then contacting the good people at GG to see if they are interested at all in supporting this product.
#16
04/26/2005 (9:06 pm)
Michael if you need any help on this, i'm fairly experienced with both PHP and mySQL and would be willing to help. I know its a very large project so don't know if you are doing it all yourself or what.
#17
I don't think the PEAR usage will effect the potential customers much at all, as I am currently considering offering a hosting service for this package. If I don't, I will definitely offer step-by-step instruction, and possibly a script to do a manual setup of PEAR that will work on shared hosting.
04/26/2005 (9:36 pm)
Thanks for the offer John - I may eventually take you up on that. As of now, I am getting acquainted with PEAR (I've always recoded these myself). PEAR is very nice and is speeding up the process quite a bit.I don't think the PEAR usage will effect the potential customers much at all, as I am currently considering offering a hosting service for this package. If I don't, I will definitely offer step-by-step instruction, and possibly a script to do a manual setup of PEAR that will work on shared hosting.
#18
04/26/2005 (9:41 pm)
I think most people would prefer thier own hosting. But I could be way off base on that.
#19
www.huhcorp.com/
04/26/2005 (10:35 pm)
It seems to me that it doesn't really matter what you have to say as much as how it looks. Things need to look good. Here is a website that looks sharp but doesn't have a real purpose other then to crack me upwww.huhcorp.com/
#20
Where phpIndie would come into play is allowing you to update the content on the ideas, strategies, solutions, clients, about us, and news pages through the use of a simple form. The same would go for the contact page, although phpIndie would allow you to define a few simple rules as to what the form should do after it has been submitted.
As far as your opinion, I have to 100% disagree. Look at www.planetquake.com. It's one of the most popular websites in the gaming community and it is nothing more than a simple table. Why is it so popular then? Because of what it has to say. Honestly, when looking at an indie website I don't care what the website looks like. I want to learn about the game being developed, and see screenshots of that game, not of some fancy graphics on the website that will never be seen in-game.
A few examples, not to really trying single anyone out:
www.terrathegame.com/
This website is the epitomy of inaccessibility. What if I don't have the Flash player, don't have the ability to acquire it, or simply don't want it? Too bad - no info for you. On a side note, I have no idea what this game is about. Okay, it's a first-person shooter that looks like a Halo clone, why would I want to play this instead of Halo? I have to scroll through every single image in the screenshots to find the one I want, and if I want to show that picture off to a buddy? Too bad - I just have to tell him, go here, click Screenshots, click the left arrow 4 times. I don't even know how many images there are, or when I have hit the beginning of the cycle without remembering the pictures. Not to mention there is no place for visitor feedback which is a a necessity in today's market, nor is there any information on the progress of the game. Has this game already been released? Has it been abandoned? When was the last time this website was updated? Who's working on it? All of this is information a visitors wants and needs for the web-based side of your public relations to be successfull.
www.thecoreteam.de/
This website is hardly worth the visit. No information at all. I'm not sure whether Hack-It is a game or a cartoon on Nickelodeon, much less when it's coming out, who's developing it, and why I should purchase it.
www.projectraven.com/
This website almost has it right. Plenty of content on here, I know what the game is going to look like and what type of game it is. But why flash? Nothing on this website is deserving of the flash plugin - nothing at all. It is easy to navigate and find the information I want. Although I see no release/purchasing information, or a place for visitor feedback.
04/27/2005 (12:19 am)
Using your example that website would be very possible with phpIndie. Of course, you would have to design your own template, which wouldn't be very hard as that website is fairly simple in design.Where phpIndie would come into play is allowing you to update the content on the ideas, strategies, solutions, clients, about us, and news pages through the use of a simple form. The same would go for the contact page, although phpIndie would allow you to define a few simple rules as to what the form should do after it has been submitted.
As far as your opinion, I have to 100% disagree. Look at www.planetquake.com. It's one of the most popular websites in the gaming community and it is nothing more than a simple table. Why is it so popular then? Because of what it has to say. Honestly, when looking at an indie website I don't care what the website looks like. I want to learn about the game being developed, and see screenshots of that game, not of some fancy graphics on the website that will never be seen in-game.
A few examples, not to really trying single anyone out:
www.terrathegame.com/
This website is the epitomy of inaccessibility. What if I don't have the Flash player, don't have the ability to acquire it, or simply don't want it? Too bad - no info for you. On a side note, I have no idea what this game is about. Okay, it's a first-person shooter that looks like a Halo clone, why would I want to play this instead of Halo? I have to scroll through every single image in the screenshots to find the one I want, and if I want to show that picture off to a buddy? Too bad - I just have to tell him, go here, click Screenshots, click the left arrow 4 times. I don't even know how many images there are, or when I have hit the beginning of the cycle without remembering the pictures. Not to mention there is no place for visitor feedback which is a a necessity in today's market, nor is there any information on the progress of the game. Has this game already been released? Has it been abandoned? When was the last time this website was updated? Who's working on it? All of this is information a visitors wants and needs for the web-based side of your public relations to be successfull.
www.thecoreteam.de/
This website is hardly worth the visit. No information at all. I'm not sure whether Hack-It is a game or a cartoon on Nickelodeon, much less when it's coming out, who's developing it, and why I should purchase it.
www.projectraven.com/
This website almost has it right. Plenty of content on here, I know what the game is going to look like and what type of game it is. But why flash? Nothing on this website is deserving of the flash plugin - nothing at all. It is easy to navigate and find the information I want. Although I see no release/purchasing information, or a place for visitor feedback.
Torque Owner John Vanderbeck
Bleh
We need to encourage more artistic freedom not cut back on it.