Thank you
by Melv May · in Torque Game Builder · 03/03/2005 (1:33 pm) · 27 replies
Weee, what a ride!
T2D is almost a week "old" now and already we've got a thriving community of people all wanting to make games and I'm totally blown away (read that stunned). Trying not to sound all pukey and sickly but big ol' thanks to all of you, especially those of you who put your moniker on the product-page reviews.
I've spent the last 6 months somehow managing to get T2D (with a huge wad of help from GG) into this EA state whilst trying to raise a newborn baby and it's been hard (so very hard) work. So much time was spent thinking (rather than doing) about how to implement some of the features so that they'd be not only fast but intuitive. There's always the worry whether you made the correct decision and certain aspects of T2D still plague me now. That's slowly changing though now that you're helping me find bugs as well as comment on what's confusing and what's working.
Almost everyone who's purchased T2D has come into the forums and have made a comment on how great they think it is and how helpful they think the community is and that is only helping to keep the collaborative spirit high! I've been browsing (lurking?) other indie-sites and although we've not yet had any big announcements apart from on this site, they're generating lots of debate on whether T2D is good, bad or ugly. I'm not bothering jumping in too much on those sites as I've got work to do here answering all the questions that need to be answered.
I've spent the last week trying to reply to practically every post on the forums but I think it's getting to the point where I'm spending a third of my day doing so! From now on, I'm going to post just as much as I can manage on a budget otherwise I'll never get any T2D work done!! Everyone is helping everyone and I think some of the bigger hurdles are over and I've generated and nice list of bugs (most of which are now fixed) as well as some ideas for future development.
Sorry for the inconvienience of any bugs you may have encountered but you'll be pleased to know we're squashing them out of existence. With T2D being in newborn status, these problems have been raised and most resolved and so this first update will contain lots of fixes and I understand that everyone will be anxious to get it. I hope that you all understand that we want to ensure we've found a majority of the problems before we do another update as doing updates, on all platforms, alongside the testing needed on each is a big, non-trivial task. If we do updates too often, we'll be doing nothing but answering posts and doing updates and we won't make T2D any cooler!
We'll be working on compiling new tutorials and documentation as well as releasing new demos on a regular basis that will hopefully show you how to achieve new stuff. Maybe you'll be point out to us some shortcuts you've found as we're only human and make mistakes.
I want a forum where new people can come in and ask questions without being intimidated and we've definatley got a helpful bunch of people here who are helping each other and helping me by passing stuff along.
Sincere thanks for that!
Okay, I'm full of cold and I appear to have answered all the posts that are waiting for answers so I can finally go downstairs and have a whisky and feel sorry for myself! *sniff*
BTW: Please feel free to comment on your experience with T2D on the product page, good or bad, it's up to you! From reading other peoples posts on non-GG sites, I think that lots of people want to get T2D but they're afraid that if you've never used TGE before, it's going to take 6 months or so to be able to make something useful. I'm way too biased to be able to objectively post on these sites and probably wouldn't be trusted. Peoples honest opinions on what T2D has given them and their experiences in general would be wonderful.
Thank you everybody for showing your faith in T2D and being here with me during this most coolest of cool weeks.
Long live T2D!
- Melv.
T2D is almost a week "old" now and already we've got a thriving community of people all wanting to make games and I'm totally blown away (read that stunned). Trying not to sound all pukey and sickly but big ol' thanks to all of you, especially those of you who put your moniker on the product-page reviews.
I've spent the last 6 months somehow managing to get T2D (with a huge wad of help from GG) into this EA state whilst trying to raise a newborn baby and it's been hard (so very hard) work. So much time was spent thinking (rather than doing) about how to implement some of the features so that they'd be not only fast but intuitive. There's always the worry whether you made the correct decision and certain aspects of T2D still plague me now. That's slowly changing though now that you're helping me find bugs as well as comment on what's confusing and what's working.
Almost everyone who's purchased T2D has come into the forums and have made a comment on how great they think it is and how helpful they think the community is and that is only helping to keep the collaborative spirit high! I've been browsing (lurking?) other indie-sites and although we've not yet had any big announcements apart from on this site, they're generating lots of debate on whether T2D is good, bad or ugly. I'm not bothering jumping in too much on those sites as I've got work to do here answering all the questions that need to be answered.
I've spent the last week trying to reply to practically every post on the forums but I think it's getting to the point where I'm spending a third of my day doing so! From now on, I'm going to post just as much as I can manage on a budget otherwise I'll never get any T2D work done!! Everyone is helping everyone and I think some of the bigger hurdles are over and I've generated and nice list of bugs (most of which are now fixed) as well as some ideas for future development.
Sorry for the inconvienience of any bugs you may have encountered but you'll be pleased to know we're squashing them out of existence. With T2D being in newborn status, these problems have been raised and most resolved and so this first update will contain lots of fixes and I understand that everyone will be anxious to get it. I hope that you all understand that we want to ensure we've found a majority of the problems before we do another update as doing updates, on all platforms, alongside the testing needed on each is a big, non-trivial task. If we do updates too often, we'll be doing nothing but answering posts and doing updates and we won't make T2D any cooler!
We'll be working on compiling new tutorials and documentation as well as releasing new demos on a regular basis that will hopefully show you how to achieve new stuff. Maybe you'll be point out to us some shortcuts you've found as we're only human and make mistakes.
I want a forum where new people can come in and ask questions without being intimidated and we've definatley got a helpful bunch of people here who are helping each other and helping me by passing stuff along.
Sincere thanks for that!
Okay, I'm full of cold and I appear to have answered all the posts that are waiting for answers so I can finally go downstairs and have a whisky and feel sorry for myself! *sniff*
BTW: Please feel free to comment on your experience with T2D on the product page, good or bad, it's up to you! From reading other peoples posts on non-GG sites, I think that lots of people want to get T2D but they're afraid that if you've never used TGE before, it's going to take 6 months or so to be able to make something useful. I'm way too biased to be able to objectively post on these sites and probably wouldn't be trusted. Peoples honest opinions on what T2D has given them and their experiences in general would be wonderful.
Thank you everybody for showing your faith in T2D and being here with me during this most coolest of cool weeks.
Long live T2D!
- Melv.
About the author
#22
Games are extremely complicated pieces of programming. Tools like T2D are extremely helpful but shouldn't be considered a cure-all for development woes. Sure you could make a nice "side scroller construction set" (as I believe your competition already has... ;) but how well is that kit going to scale into development outside it's intended genre? How many people are going to ask how can I build tetris or even tic-tac-toe?
Personally I like the product's ambiguities and would hate to see it "GUI'd up"!
03/07/2005 (9:53 am)
UGH, I agree on downplaying the "gamemaker" approach!Games are extremely complicated pieces of programming. Tools like T2D are extremely helpful but shouldn't be considered a cure-all for development woes. Sure you could make a nice "side scroller construction set" (as I believe your competition already has... ;) but how well is that kit going to scale into development outside it's intended genre? How many people are going to ask how can I build tetris or even tic-tac-toe?
Personally I like the product's ambiguities and would hate to see it "GUI'd up"!
#23
As I say, it'll be another application powered by T2D.
*hears sighs of relief* :)
- Melv.
03/07/2005 (12:11 pm)
@Pete111: I agree. Don't forget though that it'll only be a seperate product that's using the T2D Technology. You'll always be able to purchase (or just use) the T2D Api. Not in our worst nightmares would we consider closing down the source and only distributing a binary only package such as a "game-maker" app.As I say, it'll be another application powered by T2D.
*hears sighs of relief* :)
- Melv.
#24
How many people used computers before Windows? Hell, how many used them before Windows 95?
The answer is a lot. The answer is also a helluva lot less.
By having a restrictive, intimidating command-line interface (or worse), computers were perplexing "black boxes" used mostly in University and places with highly-trained operators for nearly four decades. The GUI is practically solely responsible for modern computer acceptance. Microsoft themselves completely ripped off Apple to create Windows. If there's one thing you can't deny about Microsoft it's that they know something big when they see it.
Now before you go thinking I'm praising Microsoft, I'm not. It just happens that they were the first to create something even remotely functional with the power to get their product noticed. Couple that with lowering equipment costs and you have a recipe for success.
Now I don't know if you were around in the DOS days, but we (we being game developers) would have a whole lot smaller audience if we still required our users to have the kind of knowledge you needed to get a game running in DOS. The GUI is a Good Thing.
So what's the point of this admittedly condescending history lesson? The point is that if you'd proposed a GUI to a scientist in 1975, he would have told you he had every tool he needed on the command-line. He would have been right. The trouble is, we're not all scientists. We're not all researchers or IT technicians or degreed computer scientists. A lot of us really just want to use computers to talk to our friends, play some games or even listen to music. If you've ever spent time with a new computer user you know that without a GUI he'd be helpless. He'd quit before he even got started.
So here's what I want to say. If you say something like "we don't need GUI tools", you're essentially subscribing to technical elitism. You are saying that those who don't know how to program should not be allowed to make games. It's like saying if you can't use Lynx, you don't deserve to surf the internet.
I truly believe that GarageGames does not share this sentiment. We all admit that creating a game takes a considerable amount of technical knowledge, but I personally believe there's never been much of an effort to change that. If we stop now and say "go code!" we are selling this hobby (and for some, livelihood) very short.
03/07/2005 (12:13 pm)
@Pete111: Your response makes me feel a bit defensive. Not that I take it personally, but I feel I must defend the GUI. And this is for anyone who shares your feelings, not just for you specifically.How many people used computers before Windows? Hell, how many used them before Windows 95?
The answer is a lot. The answer is also a helluva lot less.
By having a restrictive, intimidating command-line interface (or worse), computers were perplexing "black boxes" used mostly in University and places with highly-trained operators for nearly four decades. The GUI is practically solely responsible for modern computer acceptance. Microsoft themselves completely ripped off Apple to create Windows. If there's one thing you can't deny about Microsoft it's that they know something big when they see it.
Now before you go thinking I'm praising Microsoft, I'm not. It just happens that they were the first to create something even remotely functional with the power to get their product noticed. Couple that with lowering equipment costs and you have a recipe for success.
Now I don't know if you were around in the DOS days, but we (we being game developers) would have a whole lot smaller audience if we still required our users to have the kind of knowledge you needed to get a game running in DOS. The GUI is a Good Thing.
So what's the point of this admittedly condescending history lesson? The point is that if you'd proposed a GUI to a scientist in 1975, he would have told you he had every tool he needed on the command-line. He would have been right. The trouble is, we're not all scientists. We're not all researchers or IT technicians or degreed computer scientists. A lot of us really just want to use computers to talk to our friends, play some games or even listen to music. If you've ever spent time with a new computer user you know that without a GUI he'd be helpless. He'd quit before he even got started.
So here's what I want to say. If you say something like "we don't need GUI tools", you're essentially subscribing to technical elitism. You are saying that those who don't know how to program should not be allowed to make games. It's like saying if you can't use Lynx, you don't deserve to surf the internet.
I truly believe that GarageGames does not share this sentiment. We all admit that creating a game takes a considerable amount of technical knowledge, but I personally believe there's never been much of an effort to change that. If we stop now and say "go code!" we are selling this hobby (and for some, livelihood) very short.
#25
I think that most people can understand the individual elements, it's the logical techniques for fusion of all these gaming elements where people suffer. I truely believe that there are people on the forums that really wouldn't have a clue how to create a pacman game in less than a week but probably wouldn't admit it. Yet there are also people on the forums who want to do some crazy stuff and will keep being vocal and continue pushing us, which is great. I think they should have the choice of a pure API or get something out of a 2D development environment as well.
Not an easy task but we're definately going to give it our best shot.
T2D will evolve over the next few months and priorities will change accordingly but we've got a nice tech road-map and we're going to try to drive right down the middle of it.
- Melv.
03/07/2005 (12:26 pm)
I think I'd like to add that we're going to try "something special" in our approach. We don't really want a game-maker but rather a 2D IDE. Use it to generate complex GUI interfaces or write games, whatever. We're hoping to find that sweet-spot of simplicity and power that everyone is searching for. We'll try to get as many people involved as we can along the way so that we can ensure at least some ground-truth to the design.I think that most people can understand the individual elements, it's the logical techniques for fusion of all these gaming elements where people suffer. I truely believe that there are people on the forums that really wouldn't have a clue how to create a pacman game in less than a week but probably wouldn't admit it. Yet there are also people on the forums who want to do some crazy stuff and will keep being vocal and continue pushing us, which is great. I think they should have the choice of a pure API or get something out of a 2D development environment as well.
Not an easy task but we're definately going to give it our best shot.
T2D will evolve over the next few months and priorities will change accordingly but we've got a nice tech road-map and we're going to try to drive right down the middle of it.
- Melv.
#27
It's definately a "Watch this Space" thing. :)
- Melv.
03/09/2005 (4:27 am)
@Rob: Believe it or not, the particle editor was written in 3 days. Yes, you heard me correctly. It's only a placeholder and more than enough to get cool effects out but I do agree that we need a much better set of tools and that's exactly what we'll be trying to generate over the coming months.It's definately a "Watch this Space" thing. :)
- Melv.
Torque Owner Greg Rozon
Do what you're doing (like you need me to tell you that) and I'll catch up with you when I have something of substance to present.