Is anyone actually getting a game made?
by Jay "Reaper" Young · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 12/04/2001 (7:53 am) · 9 replies
I have been reading through the posts, and I see alot of people who have had great ideas, and started their games, but never follow through.
I know what it is like to have a team that starts, but does not want to finish. Either they have something better to do, or they could more easily just play another game, rather try to innovate and work on their own.
I think it has a lot to do with not being paid to do it. I have made games for the past 6 and a half years, and have finished a good 20 of them, but I was being paid to make them. Now that it is on my coin, I am finding it hard to keep the momentum of my ideas going.
Does anyone else have this problem?
Jay "Reaper" Young
Animator - Art Contractor
I know what it is like to have a team that starts, but does not want to finish. Either they have something better to do, or they could more easily just play another game, rather try to innovate and work on their own.
I think it has a lot to do with not being paid to do it. I have made games for the past 6 and a half years, and have finished a good 20 of them, but I was being paid to make them. Now that it is on my coin, I am finding it hard to keep the momentum of my ideas going.
Does anyone else have this problem?
Jay "Reaper" Young
Animator - Art Contractor
#2
12/04/2001 (3:50 pm)
Real Life has been the only problem I've had..... my friend Maggie is right, I spread myself too thin (two jobs plus a home buisness and I still expect to find time to develope a game LOL!).... Add to that that the rest of my team looks like the poster childern for Murphy's Law, and you end up with slooooooowwwwwwww developement.
#3
12/04/2001 (3:59 pm)
i would like to make a game, but a) i don't know how to program, im mearly an artist b) im still in school c) i don't have the resorces. i would love to make a game. perhaps when i know more arbout animation and such.
#4
I think you're right...getting paid is part of the problem. Most people have real lives, or at least jobs, because they need to eat food and live under shelter.
However, if a team is dedicated enough, I think they can get things done. A good example is the Myrmidon project (check out Justin Mette's .plan files). Myrmidon has somewhat been my role-model here on gg.com...they get things done. If you read their .plan files, you see that they regularly have meetings, Justin looks at everyone's work, and problem spots are discussed. And they keep at it. That's what's important.
So far I'm extremely satisfied and impressed with the team I've constructed. I started out with some experienced 2d artists from the Myth2 mod community, and a sound guy. From there, partially because I've kept at it and done my best to be professional, I've gained two programmers and two 3d artists, and the group is still growing.
In the next couple of weeks (when my co-designer gets hooked up with internet at his new place) we'll be having our first group meeting, and I'll start writing .plan's here at gg.com. I'm very excited about the game we're making...I think it's got great potential, if we work hard. However, I'm even more excited about the people I have...if we stick together after this game, I can envision us doing even greater things.
In conclusion, I think a professional attitude (spellchecking, a real .plan [not just a couple paragraphs hand-written on some lined paper], real programmers [not just the guy in your chemistry class who's made website scripts before]) and persistency {find as many potential 3d artists as you can and contact them, check gg.com daily, keep in contact with team members, keep working at your .plan) will get your game done.
Or alternatively, like you said, you can just hand your team a paycheck. Depending on the people, you may get the same results as I will...but I know that the people working on my game WANT to be working on it, because if they didn't they'd try to find a paying job. And that makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. :)
Good luck to all! And to all a good night! Erm...
-Evan
12/04/2001 (4:21 pm)
I'm not sure I count yet, but I'll reply anyway.I think you're right...getting paid is part of the problem. Most people have real lives, or at least jobs, because they need to eat food and live under shelter.
However, if a team is dedicated enough, I think they can get things done. A good example is the Myrmidon project (check out Justin Mette's .plan files). Myrmidon has somewhat been my role-model here on gg.com...they get things done. If you read their .plan files, you see that they regularly have meetings, Justin looks at everyone's work, and problem spots are discussed. And they keep at it. That's what's important.
So far I'm extremely satisfied and impressed with the team I've constructed. I started out with some experienced 2d artists from the Myth2 mod community, and a sound guy. From there, partially because I've kept at it and done my best to be professional, I've gained two programmers and two 3d artists, and the group is still growing.
In the next couple of weeks (when my co-designer gets hooked up with internet at his new place) we'll be having our first group meeting, and I'll start writing .plan's here at gg.com. I'm very excited about the game we're making...I think it's got great potential, if we work hard. However, I'm even more excited about the people I have...if we stick together after this game, I can envision us doing even greater things.
In conclusion, I think a professional attitude (spellchecking, a real .plan [not just a couple paragraphs hand-written on some lined paper], real programmers [not just the guy in your chemistry class who's made website scripts before]) and persistency {find as many potential 3d artists as you can and contact them, check gg.com daily, keep in contact with team members, keep working at your .plan) will get your game done.
Or alternatively, like you said, you can just hand your team a paycheck. Depending on the people, you may get the same results as I will...but I know that the people working on my game WANT to be working on it, because if they didn't they'd try to find a paying job. And that makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. :)
Good luck to all! And to all a good night! Erm...
-Evan
#5
The Legends project is coming along very nicely, most likely due to the hordes of dissatisfied Tribes 2 owners.
12/05/2001 (10:42 am)
Actually, yes.The Legends project is coming along very nicely, most likely due to the hordes of dissatisfied Tribes 2 owners.
#6
To keep enthusiasm going:
1) Tell team members when they've done something well. No positive feedback feels like negative feedback via email.
2) Get people outside the team to look at it periodically. This will give you an additional spur.
3) Write down lists of things to be done - and take pride in scratching them off.
4) Take occasional breaks. If you're normally programming into the night - get a couple of good nights sleep occasionally. It does wonders.
HTH
Benedict
12/05/2001 (2:35 pm)
Yeah. It can be tough sometimes to keep momentum going. The hard part is if you (the leader) are not a programmer. If a programmer led team doesn't get art resources then the programmer can hack together rubbish looking 'programmer art' as a placeholder but if a artist led team runs out of programmers then they can run out of steam. To keep enthusiasm going:
1) Tell team members when they've done something well. No positive feedback feels like negative feedback via email.
2) Get people outside the team to look at it periodically. This will give you an additional spur.
3) Write down lists of things to be done - and take pride in scratching them off.
4) Take occasional breaks. If you're normally programming into the night - get a couple of good nights sleep occasionally. It does wonders.
HTH
Benedict
#7
-Evan
12/05/2001 (3:54 pm)
I definetly agree with the points Benedict hit upon...being nice to people is GOOD. If they do bad, don't scream at them, gently explain what you really wanted and ask if they can do it again. On that same note, make sure you're instructions are clear. Nothing pisses an artist (and probably a programmer) off more than them spending a bunch of time making something great for you, and then you telling them that they misunderstood and they need to do it over.-Evan
#8
1) Be open-minded to what your people have to say. Sometimes they can give useful info on how to improve the game, or make it easier to understand.
2) Let people do their jobs. Telling them how to do every aspect of their assignment will end in arguing and ultimately an uncreative game.
3) Making a game should be a hobby as far as online development goes, so don't treat it as a professional team; unless you send everyone a monthly check and register your business. Most people don't work long hours for free. Just make your game for the learning experience and for fun, though making a few bucks on the side can't hurt.
12/05/2001 (7:15 pm)
Some people are actually making games. My team for instance, is dedicated to what they do. We meet once a week while we are in the design stage (we are boosting it to every other day soon) and everyone has done something for the project. My right hand man, Cypher, has worked hard on maps for a world originally created by me, and they are true to the idea. All the designers have voiced their opinions on the game and edited the Design Doc. Our programmers have agreed on an engine and have also contributed to the design of the game, as well as programming on a professional level. Lastly, the artists are talented and dedicated. I count myself lucky to have such a good team. Anyway, here are some more pointers on how to keep a team interested.1) Be open-minded to what your people have to say. Sometimes they can give useful info on how to improve the game, or make it easier to understand.
2) Let people do their jobs. Telling them how to do every aspect of their assignment will end in arguing and ultimately an uncreative game.
3) Making a game should be a hobby as far as online development goes, so don't treat it as a professional team; unless you send everyone a monthly check and register your business. Most people don't work long hours for free. Just make your game for the learning experience and for fun, though making a few bucks on the side can't hurt.
#9
1) if in a situation of not paying company members, give people the oppertunity to help with game design.
2) Be sure to tell all the members of your team to ask you or any other team member questions about what they are doing.
Both of these give empowerment to team members which will make them feel like they are part of the team.
3) When goals are reached tell the whole team what has been accomplished and who accomplished it. Be more emphatic on the what though as that will give the rest of the team a sence of accomplishment too. That being said though be sure to put credit where credit is do. People like to let other people know they have done something cool and that feeling is heighted when someone else is doing the dirty work for them :).
4) The wording of writen doc's to your team is very important. Be careful with the way you word e-mail and other official docs. You don't want them to think of you as the boss (especially if your not paying them) but someone who can be easily approached with suggestions. I personnally never try to use the words my or I when I'm making suggestions about someone elses work. Trust me it makes a difference.
5) Be patient. Deadlines are important but they are not a be all end all. Also, pestering other members about what they are doing will make want to work on it less. So let other members be creative and
6) Forwarn people that you are going to be very critical of their work and be sure they understand what that involves. When it comes time to evaluate the work be critical but be open minded too. Sometimes the vision you had of something might not have been perfect :) and the other member might have come across something really amazing that works well.
Happy trails
Alc
12/06/2001 (10:23 am)
A couple of points I've come across that help a project stay alive and keep going are as follows:1) if in a situation of not paying company members, give people the oppertunity to help with game design.
2) Be sure to tell all the members of your team to ask you or any other team member questions about what they are doing.
Both of these give empowerment to team members which will make them feel like they are part of the team.
3) When goals are reached tell the whole team what has been accomplished and who accomplished it. Be more emphatic on the what though as that will give the rest of the team a sence of accomplishment too. That being said though be sure to put credit where credit is do. People like to let other people know they have done something cool and that feeling is heighted when someone else is doing the dirty work for them :).
4) The wording of writen doc's to your team is very important. Be careful with the way you word e-mail and other official docs. You don't want them to think of you as the boss (especially if your not paying them) but someone who can be easily approached with suggestions. I personnally never try to use the words my or I when I'm making suggestions about someone elses work. Trust me it makes a difference.
5) Be patient. Deadlines are important but they are not a be all end all. Also, pestering other members about what they are doing will make want to work on it less. So let other members be creative and
6) Forwarn people that you are going to be very critical of their work and be sure they understand what that involves. When it comes time to evaluate the work be critical but be open minded too. Sometimes the vision you had of something might not have been perfect :) and the other member might have come across something really amazing that works well.
Happy trails
Alc
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