Low budgets, big egos (warning: rant)
by Joshua Dallman · in General Discussion · 01/29/2005 (5:53 pm) · 10 replies
[rant]
Among the unexpected perils of low budget independant game development is people replying to job postings not to offer their services to aide your cause but instead to a) tell you how awesome they are and b) tell you that they'd never work for the rate you're offering. They stroke their ego under the guise of being helpful. Pointing out the obvious (that $8/hr isn't much for tech writing for example) isn't helpful.
For example, I recently posted on a local site requesting the consulting services of someone with teaching and physics experience. I made it amply clear in the ad multiple times that it was a low budget independantly produced project. Among my statements: "As an independant developer I can't afford more than X for this component, so your motivation will be mostly to participate in a cool, fun, quick project."
This was one of the responses:
Nice enough, but... why are you wasting my time?!?!
I wouldn't post this if it was just one or two incidents, but it seems to be a pattern no matter what kind of work it is (art, programming, tech writing...). I'm beside myself as to what is going through the head of the person writing me whenever one of these comes in. I'm upfront about the workload and how much it pays, and you either want the job or you don't.
[/rant]
BTW, I found someone awesome for this component of the project, so no replies for that, please.
Among the unexpected perils of low budget independant game development is people replying to job postings not to offer their services to aide your cause but instead to a) tell you how awesome they are and b) tell you that they'd never work for the rate you're offering. They stroke their ego under the guise of being helpful. Pointing out the obvious (that $8/hr isn't much for tech writing for example) isn't helpful.
For example, I recently posted on a local site requesting the consulting services of someone with teaching and physics experience. I made it amply clear in the ad multiple times that it was a low budget independantly produced project. Among my statements: "As an independant developer I can't afford more than X for this component, so your motivation will be mostly to participate in a cool, fun, quick project."
This was one of the responses:
Quote:I read your post on with interest, since I'm a former physics teacher who has spent the last 25 years or so as an instructional designer and technical writer in the high-tech sector.
However, as I read what was expected, I became more convinced that the compensation offered was inadequate. If one worked very quickly, it might work out to nearly minimum wage. ;-)
So, alas, I won't be offering my services for this project, although it sounds like fun.
Nice enough, but... why are you wasting my time?!?!
I wouldn't post this if it was just one or two incidents, but it seems to be a pattern no matter what kind of work it is (art, programming, tech writing...). I'm beside myself as to what is going through the head of the person writing me whenever one of these comes in. I'm upfront about the workload and how much it pays, and you either want the job or you don't.
[/rant]
BTW, I found someone awesome for this component of the project, so no replies for that, please.
About the author
#2
unfortunatly that the way it is with indies.. they want to get paid up front (for the most part) so you wont find many willing to do it out of the goodness of their heart.. I say roll with the punches.. its going to happen.. no sense getting mad..
01/29/2005 (7:11 pm)
Or you could do what I did.. I created the core of the game by myself, and then showing the community what i had and going from there.. I have a 0 dollar budget so anyone that would help me would be in it for the end profits not for the here and now pay...unfortunatly that the way it is with indies.. they want to get paid up front (for the most part) so you wont find many willing to do it out of the goodness of their heart.. I say roll with the punches.. its going to happen.. no sense getting mad..
#3
By the way, here's the kind of email I NEVER receive:
"Hey, I saw your posting and thought I'd drop you a quick note. I do that kind of thing and you might have trouble finding someone at that price (if you haven't found out already). I tend to charge around X for that, and if you have trouble drop me a line and maybe we can negotiate."
That's modest, helpful, and quick.
Instead, it's always a grandiose introduction waxing lavishly about their qualifications, followed by a statement about how little you're paying (duh!), followed by a closing line that offers no interest in further contact and usually a cursory "good luck" at the end. Any comments they have are dollar-based, not project-based -- they're not interested in what you're doing, they just want money.
Meanwhile, I usually get plenty of quality applicants sincerely interested in a cool project and often have my pick. :P
01/29/2005 (7:55 pm)
Thanks. Yeah I should have just deleted the email and moved on, but sometimes you just have to rant.By the way, here's the kind of email I NEVER receive:
"Hey, I saw your posting and thought I'd drop you a quick note. I do that kind of thing and you might have trouble finding someone at that price (if you haven't found out already). I tend to charge around X for that, and if you have trouble drop me a line and maybe we can negotiate."
That's modest, helpful, and quick.
Instead, it's always a grandiose introduction waxing lavishly about their qualifications, followed by a statement about how little you're paying (duh!), followed by a closing line that offers no interest in further contact and usually a cursory "good luck" at the end. Any comments they have are dollar-based, not project-based -- they're not interested in what you're doing, they just want money.
Meanwhile, I usually get plenty of quality applicants sincerely interested in a cool project and often have my pick. :P
#4
01/29/2005 (9:17 pm)
Well about the same thing happened to me.. I just said "hey I could sure use some help with a few problem codes" and someone jumped up tot he plate and said sure I would help out.. He didnt ask for money and so on.. but if we go gold with Toons, I will be more then happy to split the share of the profits..but people like that are few and far between..
#5
Thank-you for your reply. As my original post explicitly stated, this is a low budget project. As you have so clearly pointed out, you are unable to read and understand simple project requirements. Therefore I will not be asking you for your services.
Have a nice day. Not!"
01/30/2005 (9:09 am)
"Dear Sir,Thank-you for your reply. As my original post explicitly stated, this is a low budget project. As you have so clearly pointed out, you are unable to read and understand simple project requirements. Therefore I will not be asking you for your services.
Have a nice day. Not!"
#6
01/30/2005 (11:30 am)
I'd do it for free, pay would be nice. However i'd only take money from a person if they were rich (Not like billioneere rich, but like has a good income, and isn't making a sacrifice to pay me.) But, my knowledge is limited, and I do learn fast tho. 
#7
Considering how many out-of-work techies are out there right now, with nothing better to do than surf the Net looking for someplace else to apply, I think that a response like that would come from someone who's just awfully, painfully tired of job-hunting with its rejections, non-responses and ridiculously lowball offers (not from you, but from real employers), who has had it up to here and finally sees an easy place to vent his/her frustration.
There's 2400 of them here in northern Colorado alone. They expected to work for The Man for $50 to $100 an hour for the rest of their careers, don't know how to live on anything less than that, and aren't used to walking around with "Will Work For Food" signs hanging around their necks. Most of them can't even comprehend what it's like to leave The Man behind and set out to seek out their own fortune. And most of them really are highly qualified and deserve better than the tough break they've gotten in the past few years.
So don't take it personally. Their wounded ego just flared up again, and you were the closest thing they could swat at.
Regards
Ray
been there, done that, known the pain, took the road less traveled
02/02/2005 (10:07 pm)
What's really ironic is that the people sending you that kind of message are the ones sitting at home, out of work, watching for the Perfect Job to come along while their severance pay goes out the door to pay for their Internet access.Considering how many out-of-work techies are out there right now, with nothing better to do than surf the Net looking for someplace else to apply, I think that a response like that would come from someone who's just awfully, painfully tired of job-hunting with its rejections, non-responses and ridiculously lowball offers (not from you, but from real employers), who has had it up to here and finally sees an easy place to vent his/her frustration.
There's 2400 of them here in northern Colorado alone. They expected to work for The Man for $50 to $100 an hour for the rest of their careers, don't know how to live on anything less than that, and aren't used to walking around with "Will Work For Food" signs hanging around their necks. Most of them can't even comprehend what it's like to leave The Man behind and set out to seek out their own fortune. And most of them really are highly qualified and deserve better than the tough break they've gotten in the past few years.
So don't take it personally. Their wounded ego just flared up again, and you were the closest thing they could swat at.
Regards
Ray
been there, done that, known the pain, took the road less traveled
#8
Call it volunteer, pro bono. That way you only get INTERESTED folks.
Then when they sign up, surprise them with a few bucks.
02/03/2005 (6:07 am)
Try changing tactics.Call it volunteer, pro bono. That way you only get INTERESTED folks.
Then when they sign up, surprise them with a few bucks.
#9
02/03/2005 (8:11 am)
Better yet instead of placing an ad, do some leg work and talk to these people in person, you will know right away if they are intersted in helping you after your elevator pitch (ie. a really short bit of info on your project, no more than 1 to 2 minutes in length).
#10
03/08/2005 (3:46 pm)
It might be difficult to get them face to face but a simple phone call would go a long way in helping verify if someone is interested in your project or just wasting your time. Even IMing someone can go a long way. Listing it as a "volunteer, pro bono" as someone else mentioned would be a good way to gather interested people.
Torque Owner Nate "Nateholio" Watson
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