Feet bounce
by Paul Mikulecky · in Artist Corner · 01/26/2005 (8:00 pm) · 6 replies
Hello Folks,
I have a character that is rigged using Character Studio in Max 6. I have successfully exported the DTS model and a DSQ animation (just a quick test where the feet are locked in place and the hip (Bip01) moves up and down). When I bring the model and the animation sequence into the ShowPro Tool then the character's feet go up and down a small amount - enough to penetrate the grid. In Max this behavior does not occur - the feet remain securely locked on the floor while I move the hips up and down.
When I increase the frame rate on the Sequence Dummy object in Max to 60fps and re-export the sequence the feet stop penetrating the floor and are rock solid.
My heirarchy in my Max file is as follows: base01 is the parent. It has three children: bounds, detail2, and Bip01. Bip01 is the main control that I have animated. All the example files I have seen of characters (and I haven't seen any Max source files which contain animations) seem to have no base01, but use Bip01 as the root parent.
My question(s): is this normal behavior and is there anything I have to watch out for if I increase the fps to 60 when I export the sequence? Or is there another solution to this behavior? Will my heirarchy be a gotcha in the future?
Cheers,
Paul Mikulecky
Lost Pencil Animation Studios Inc.
http://www.lostpencil.com
"The art of character animation is to try
to catch lightning in a bottle.... one volt
at a time." Brad Bird
I have a character that is rigged using Character Studio in Max 6. I have successfully exported the DTS model and a DSQ animation (just a quick test where the feet are locked in place and the hip (Bip01) moves up and down). When I bring the model and the animation sequence into the ShowPro Tool then the character's feet go up and down a small amount - enough to penetrate the grid. In Max this behavior does not occur - the feet remain securely locked on the floor while I move the hips up and down.
When I increase the frame rate on the Sequence Dummy object in Max to 60fps and re-export the sequence the feet stop penetrating the floor and are rock solid.
My heirarchy in my Max file is as follows: base01 is the parent. It has three children: bounds, detail2, and Bip01. Bip01 is the main control that I have animated. All the example files I have seen of characters (and I haven't seen any Max source files which contain animations) seem to have no base01, but use Bip01 as the root parent.
My question(s): is this normal behavior and is there anything I have to watch out for if I increase the fps to 60 when I export the sequence? Or is there another solution to this behavior? Will my heirarchy be a gotcha in the future?
Cheers,
Paul Mikulecky
Lost Pencil Animation Studios Inc.
http://www.lostpencil.com
"The art of character animation is to try
to catch lightning in a bottle.... one volt
at a time." Brad Bird
#2
I've only been playing for a couple of weeks, so you are a pro compared to me :o)
The effect is quite noticable (with a setting of 15fps the feet are basically bouncing as the hips move up and down). Thanks for the info regarding your setup. Sounds pretty similar. Are you using Character Studio?
In my process of trying to find a solution I tried the same thing with another character I have in Max, but that uses a custom rig. I created the same kind of heirarchy and animated the hip the same way (with feet firmly planted on the ground). I then exported it to Torque and the problem does not show up (in ShowTool Pro) using the custom rig. Everything is as expected. Hips move, feet stay totally still.
So it looks like the problem is related to Character Studio. If I turn the fps way up, the feet stabalize (the higher the better - it's almost not noticable around 90 fps). At 15fps it's almost acting as if the curves for the keys are not tangent to the curve, but as you increase the fps it interpolates the curve with more tension. In that vein I tried making sure that the Tension (in the TCB settings on my keys) was set to the maximum. But that didn't make a difference. If I must I can re-rig using a custom rig, but I can't believe I'm the only one animating the bip01 (i.e. hip) in Character Studio while trying to keep the feet firmly planted in Torque land... I mean that's one of those staple kinds of things one uses in character animation. Thanks for the reply!
Cheers,
Paul Mikulecky
Lost Pencil Animation Studios Inc.
http://www.lostpencil.com
"The art of character animation is to try
to catch lightning in a bottle.... one volt
at a time." Brad Bird
01/26/2005 (11:23 pm)
Hey Clint,I've only been playing for a couple of weeks, so you are a pro compared to me :o)
The effect is quite noticable (with a setting of 15fps the feet are basically bouncing as the hips move up and down). Thanks for the info regarding your setup. Sounds pretty similar. Are you using Character Studio?
In my process of trying to find a solution I tried the same thing with another character I have in Max, but that uses a custom rig. I created the same kind of heirarchy and animated the hip the same way (with feet firmly planted on the ground). I then exported it to Torque and the problem does not show up (in ShowTool Pro) using the custom rig. Everything is as expected. Hips move, feet stay totally still.
So it looks like the problem is related to Character Studio. If I turn the fps way up, the feet stabalize (the higher the better - it's almost not noticable around 90 fps). At 15fps it's almost acting as if the curves for the keys are not tangent to the curve, but as you increase the fps it interpolates the curve with more tension. In that vein I tried making sure that the Tension (in the TCB settings on my keys) was set to the maximum. But that didn't make a difference. If I must I can re-rig using a custom rig, but I can't believe I'm the only one animating the bip01 (i.e. hip) in Character Studio while trying to keep the feet firmly planted in Torque land... I mean that's one of those staple kinds of things one uses in character animation. Thanks for the reply!
Cheers,
Paul Mikulecky
Lost Pencil Animation Studios Inc.
http://www.lostpencil.com
"The art of character animation is to try
to catch lightning in a bottle.... one volt
at a time." Brad Bird
#3
Hmm no, I'm not using Character Studio, just a custom rig. I should be getting a new version of max soon, I'll try playing arround with the character studio stuff then and see if I see it.
hopefully one of the old torque pros who use CS can help. I'm fairly certain that many people do from the looks of other things I've run across on the forums. Keep searching you might find your answer.
01/27/2005 (1:35 am)
Quote:Are you using Character Studio?
..edit snip...I tried the same thing with another character I have in Max, but that uses a custom rig.
...edit snip...I then exported it to Torque and the problem does not show up (in ShowTool Pro) using the custom rig. Everything is as expected. Hips move, feet stay totally still.
Hmm no, I'm not using Character Studio, just a custom rig. I should be getting a new version of max soon, I'll try playing arround with the character studio stuff then and see if I see it.
hopefully one of the old torque pros who use CS can help. I'm fairly certain that many people do from the looks of other things I've run across on the forums. Keep searching you might find your answer.
Quote: If I turn the fps way up, the feet stabalize (the higher the better - it's almost not noticable around 90 fps)hmm...how fast is your frame rate :) sounds like wierd interpolation problems they just seem to go away as your samples approach the right frequency.
Quote:I've only been playing for a couple of weeks, so you are a pro compared to me :o)hah thanks, we've got to help eachother out here. good luck!
#4
Cheers,
Paul Mikulecky
Lost Pencil Animation Studios Inc.
http://www.lostpencil.com
"The art of character animation is to try
to catch lightning in a bottle.... one volt
at a time." Brad Bird
01/27/2005 (7:25 am)
Thanks Clint! Yep, I kinda figure that I'm probably not the only one using CS in Max and animating the hip :o) so it must be something in how I'm using CS or the exporter. Anyway, I'll keep searching and testing. If I have to, I'll re-rig with a custom rig.Cheers,
Paul Mikulecky
Lost Pencil Animation Studios Inc.
http://www.lostpencil.com
"The art of character animation is to try
to catch lightning in a bottle.... one volt
at a time." Brad Bird
#5
Matt
01/27/2005 (5:29 pm)
I have been noticing a few problems with CS biped rigs in the latest version of the exporter. I'm going to test it again over the weekend after making a few changes to the exporter to see if I cleared it up. MIght not be your fault at all but I'll let you know. JUst check my post for the MAX6/7 exporter in the public art forums.Matt
#6
Cheers,
Paul Mikulecky
Lost Pencil Animation Studios Inc.
http://www.lostpencil.com
"The art of character animation is to try
to catch lightning in a bottle.... one volt
at a time." Brad Bird
01/27/2005 (5:32 pm)
Thanks Matt! After further testing I could eliminate the bounce by changing the position of the feet and hips. Offsetting them and rotating them made the bounce go away. Cheers,
Paul Mikulecky
Lost Pencil Animation Studios Inc.
http://www.lostpencil.com
"The art of character animation is to try
to catch lightning in a bottle.... one volt
at a time." Brad Bird
Torque Owner Clint S. Brewer
I don't know about TSTPro, but I haven't noticed the problem you are having in particular. is it a very subtle problem or is it pronounced?
I have an animated character in max. it uses base01
which has children: start01 , detail128
start01 has children:
placementControl (this is what my hips are linked to)
spineLinkHelper(this is what the spines are linked to)
and a few other bone things that aren't linked explicitly to other bones.
The heirarchy naming is pretty flexible in general. The main problems you run into are when something is created in a viewport that gives it a funky transform. Well lets say that's the main problems I run into!
However I would probably stick with base01 since it works, but if your guy exported I guess it's not a problem.
memory usage of animations I would guess.