open source materials in Torque games?
by Heath Rezabek · in General Discussion · 11/27/2001 (10:59 pm) · 9 replies
Greetings. I'm in the research phase as far as Torque goes, having in mind a project and a loose team but wondering of Torque & the gG model will work for me. I think it very well may, but I have questions.
One of them has to do with licensing, and I wonder if there's another forum on which I shld be posting this; but response here will tell all, if so.
In essence, I have no problem working within the GG distribution and rights model as I understand it so far; but one of the unique aspects of the game I wish to work on is that the larger plotline and story of the game is to be an ongoing opensource project. In other words, players would be able to freely join a working group with the creators and suggest, hash out, and even modify the plot to suit their needs. The plot itself will allow space for such storyline oddness and even contradiction.
Does the GG model limit my ability to leave the *content* of the game opensource?
Taking it a step further, does my licensing of the engine itself effect my ability to create freely modifiable *assets* for use in the game -- models, textures, music, scenery, story elements?
Any feedback on this wld be appreciated; at this point I'd much rather work with GG, Torque, the growing developer community, its distribution scheme, ect.. than I would try to get CrystalSpace to work for my needs. But my team's ability to allow the *assets* to be opensource and freely modifiable is somewhat pivotal to our vision of how the game [and its world] will evolve.
Any feedback for this newbie appreciated!
- Heath M Rezabek
- Boulder, CO
One of them has to do with licensing, and I wonder if there's another forum on which I shld be posting this; but response here will tell all, if so.
In essence, I have no problem working within the GG distribution and rights model as I understand it so far; but one of the unique aspects of the game I wish to work on is that the larger plotline and story of the game is to be an ongoing opensource project. In other words, players would be able to freely join a working group with the creators and suggest, hash out, and even modify the plot to suit their needs. The plot itself will allow space for such storyline oddness and even contradiction.
Does the GG model limit my ability to leave the *content* of the game opensource?
Taking it a step further, does my licensing of the engine itself effect my ability to create freely modifiable *assets* for use in the game -- models, textures, music, scenery, story elements?
Any feedback on this wld be appreciated; at this point I'd much rather work with GG, Torque, the growing developer community, its distribution scheme, ect.. than I would try to get CrystalSpace to work for my needs. But my team's ability to allow the *assets* to be opensource and freely modifiable is somewhat pivotal to our vision of how the game [and its world] will evolve.
Any feedback for this newbie appreciated!
- Heath M Rezabek
- Boulder, CO
#2
Note that nearly everything you would want to have people modify can be done with script/model/sound changes.
Josh
11/28/2001 (11:17 am)
I am not a GG person, but I think they would have no problem with you allowing others to add/change script/models/sounds, but they would have a problem if you gave out the C++ source code.Note that nearly everything you would want to have people modify can be done with script/model/sound changes.
Josh
#3
A related issue, but one that is very very far down the line: an available map editing tool that is there for players to use to make maps, again not the source code; but what options are there? Is it perhaps possible to create a front-end that hides the gutts of Torque while allowing access to mapmaking tools?
Alternately, it seems that much of the mapmaking process cld be done in QuArK, but I have to research this further / elsewhere.
- Heath
11/28/2001 (12:33 pm)
Yes indeed, that's the idea; to have the assets [models, sounds, story elements] readily changeable, within the context of a community tied to the game. So, confirmation of this is what i need, and i'll likely have found my engine / dev environment in Torque!A related issue, but one that is very very far down the line: an available map editing tool that is there for players to use to make maps, again not the source code; but what options are there? Is it perhaps possible to create a front-end that hides the gutts of Torque while allowing access to mapmaking tools?
Alternately, it seems that much of the mapmaking process cld be done in QuArK, but I have to research this further / elsewhere.
- Heath
#4
11/28/2001 (1:34 pm)
Do all games have to be "mod-able"? Won't that put a greater burden on the programmer to watch for cheaters altering files client-side?
#5
in my case, as well, there's another 'safeguard' in place; without spouting too much, i can summarize. i want to provide a framework where-in players who wish to learn how to create maps for the game have actually reached a certain point *in* the game to do so, and are invited into a community, both in the game and in reality; in reality, the community mentors on the map / plugin / mod creation process; in game, this community is one of the many cultures / subgroups that exists as a plot element.
so, mapmaking and modmaking wld be learned and taught within a mentoring environment where such renegades cld be kept in check. of course, if such renegades pop up -- and they inevitably will -- then that'll become a story element, and ppl will know to stay away from their 'realm' in the game and the plugin / map / mod in reality.
at the end of the day, to really mess with things, someone'd have to license Torque, just as my team will...
- heath
11/28/2001 (3:46 pm)
re cheaters; yes, i suppose that'd be something to watch for. but numerous games allow 'plugins,' and there is an easy way to regulate this: if you want to join a game with some sort of mod in place, then you have to have the same version and build of that plugin / mod file installed. this implies tacit agreement: if you've installed the plugin/mod, then you've *agreed* to play a round or two in a universe where there's an Infinite Damage Thingie like the readme said. otherwise the presence of players using that mod doesn't effect the rest of the gamers.in my case, as well, there's another 'safeguard' in place; without spouting too much, i can summarize. i want to provide a framework where-in players who wish to learn how to create maps for the game have actually reached a certain point *in* the game to do so, and are invited into a community, both in the game and in reality; in reality, the community mentors on the map / plugin / mod creation process; in game, this community is one of the many cultures / subgroups that exists as a plot element.
so, mapmaking and modmaking wld be learned and taught within a mentoring environment where such renegades cld be kept in check. of course, if such renegades pop up -- and they inevitably will -- then that'll become a story element, and ppl will know to stay away from their 'realm' in the game and the plugin / map / mod in reality.
at the end of the day, to really mess with things, someone'd have to license Torque, just as my team will...
- heath
#6
In conclusion: MODDING TOOLS ARE GOOD! Don't sell 'em short!
-Evan
11/28/2001 (4:35 pm)
While allowing mapmaking for a game does make it harder for your programmer, it is an excellent feature to have. Mapmaking has kept Myth2 (made in 98, uses sprites and 3d terrain) alive after any other game as good as Myth would have hit the bargain bin and never been bought. Myth is a great game, and there is much replay value, but being able to CREATE your own stuff for it, and PLAY stuff that's been created for it...that's awesome. Hell, most of us are posting on this forum because WE like to create...mapmaking just makes creating easier (admittedly less powerful sometimes) and casual, instead of something you're spending lots of money on. Furthermore, very talented modders are a good crop to look for new members in. If you're making a sequel, or a game with a similar engine, or just really like the work of a modder, you can try to hire him...if you get him, you suddenly have a team member who knows how to use the engine that you did not know how to train, and who is probably very happy to get paid to do what he does in his free time.In conclusion: MODDING TOOLS ARE GOOD! Don't sell 'em short!
-Evan
#7
Alc
11/28/2001 (4:52 pm)
There already is a map making program available which any mod maker for your game would be able to use (Worldcraft). If your talking scripting events I suppose you could program a tool to work with Worldcraft for triggered events (ala StarEdit for StarCraft). When using the TGE think of your project like anyone making a commercial product would. I don't imagine the GG guys would limit you in anyway in that respect except to ensure a limited amount of bugs.Alc
#8
Jeff Tunnell GG
11/29/2001 (6:14 pm)
You can do anything you want with the intellectual propoerty within your game. Open source it, create a comic book, write a book, etc. You own it. We simply get the right to publish the completed game.Jeff Tunnell GG
Torque Owner Jeff Trier
Simple Distractions Software
-Jeff