Idea: Fewer than 3 weapons

#1 As an adjunct, for usability, the 'Done' line could list the benefit you get for ending early. Like, on the first weapon selection, it would say: 0) Done (30% speed boost). After you chose two weapons, it would say 0) Done (10% speed boost). Similarly, when choosing modules, after you already chose one module it would say 0) Done (20% energy regen boost)

#2 I'm sure once the "loadouts" code is done, you'll be able to do this.

i don't think i like the speed / energy changes idea though.

#3 Understood. Why though?

Having fewer weapon choices is a minor penalty, so I gave it a minor benefit... 20% faster is not a big deal, and you have fewer options to deal with enemies. The boost is something like 100% faster... they would still easily be able to outrun someone with few weapons. I should mention that the 20% speed increase does not carry over to when you use the boost item. Or, to be more precise... if you go speed 100 normally, and speed 200 with boost, then if you only have one weapon (20% faster), you go speed 120 normally, and speed 200 with boost. Perhaps speed 220, as an option after playtesting... but not 240 (a 20% increase to 200).

Having fewer modules is a major penalty, and I gave it a major benefit... 20% regen boost is significant. Someone who only picked a repair kit could do more repairs, but they would have no defenses... no way to run (boost), no way to guard (shield). Someone who had NO modules is seriously handicapped, but they would be able to spray bouncing bullets, drop mines, etc much faster. But they would still easily die.

The biggest benefit would be for players who have a very focused purpose... flag runners (just boost, no weapons), chokepoint defenders (just shields & one weapon). But these players would be screwed if they encountered a situation they did not expect... the flag runner would be completely unable to clear mines or enemy defenses. The chokepoint defender could not give chase if his flag goes by. I think the penalties outweigh the benefits...

But other people may not think so. Perhaps you're the kind of player that never uses modules... maybe you're a noob and you just want to spray guns a lot. Perhaps you only use the phaser, so why not get a little benefit on the side. This just gives you a small advantage for those who don't need or want as much flexibility.

#4 I think people will start playing offense with phaser / shield / turbo, (or maybe just phaser / sheild) and then the defenders will be forced to play in a similiar loadout in order to be able to chase at all. (because the guy with 1 weapon is 20% faster than you, and he (potentially) has turbo)

I think it would negatively impact the variety you currently find in the game. that's all speculation though.

another consideration of change to energy consumption is that it not only effects the recharge rate (which is obvious) but it affects the amount of active time you have on your modules. increasing recharge 20% will decrease the effective drain while you're using it by 20% as well. so you can repair longer AND you don't have to wait as long to repair again (or shield or whatever)

#5 Well, if the person on offense is phaser/shield/turbo, the defender will have more options. They can be placing mines, or use bouncing bullets, that the attacker will not. Turbo will be the same for each of them, so the attacker will not be able to outrun a turbo-ing defender. And with shield AND turbo, the attacker will have no energy benefit to help them get away. The speed boost will just mean they can get back to attack again a tad faster.

If the attacker just has turbo, then they are at a serious penalty going in... they are vulnerable to all the attacking fire, mines, etc. If they are attacked before they get across the map they have no way to prevent or repair damage. A simple phaser-spraying defender will kill them. IF they get the flag and get out of the flag room, they do have an advantage... but that's ok, they suffered under an equal penalty getting in. And they still have to survive the waves of flag retakers, who may already be waiting at the enemy base.

I am aware of the effect increased regeneration would have... that's why I said 20%, not 25%. Playtesting may prove that 20% is too high... but it feels about right to me. I think the loss of a module is a big penalty, and 20% increased regen (which can only be used with weapons and ONE module, or 40% ONLY for weapons) is not as big an advantage compared to having those module(s).

#6 The speed boost means once i grab, and i'm fleeing, unless you have dropped weapons too, or have turbo and i don't, i go faster than you. meaning that if you try to persue me, i will get away unless i am stupid and run into things.

I would never play just turbo. i would play phaser / shield, and one on one, i bet i'd have the advantage against a defender using any loadout.

to be honest, i don't mind the proposed energy recharge changes as i mind the proposed changes to speed. mostly, i feel that way because people have already expressed an actual desire to carry less weapons, and that the ability to do that at all would be a benefit to them. So they get to drop weapons (percieved benefit) and they get to go faster (benefit).

That's just for some individuals though. Unfourtunately, i have a hunch that many of those individuals are people that are already better than the bulk of the players out there.

#7 Ok, you play phaser/shield. I'll zip in with turbo+shield and bypass you, flee as far as my energy takes me, and you'll never catch up.

You may be a very good dogfighter with phaser/shield, but other than ZapMatch, dogfighting is not the goal of the game. Even in hunters, someone with speed will zip in front of you and steal flags from you, then zip away. Almost every situation will give someone with another module an advantage over you in ways OTHER than straight dogfighting. Defenders with mines and repair will be better at protecting their base. Attackers with turbo will be better at attacking and escaping. DEFENDERS with turbo will be better at running you down multiple times before you get back to home.

Giving up modules and weapons gives you an advantage with the equipment you have left, but the limitations of your remaining equipment gives you a greater disadvantage overall. In my opinion of course.

I do understand your point about people who already want to have fewer weapons. But that's not because they don't like options... it is because it's hard to switch weapons. When the new version that allows keybinding comes out, that desire will fade because other methods to switch weapons will exist (like pressing 1, 2, 3).

#8 If you were going to do all of this, then you have to give an upgrade to the defenders. If they are rushed by more than one enemy using turbo/shield, then they are completely screwed. The defender would need to do alot more damage, making the kills come faster.

What would need to happen is the defender could use a weapon that would fill up 2, or both (if only using 2 weapons) spaces. It could do alot more damage, but not give the defender much flexibility.

The other thing you could do is make your changes, and just alter team strategies. The defenders would have to consist of the shield/phaser/bouncer ect. ect. guys, and the turbo/phaser guys. So if the enemy steals the flag, you have someone to chase them down.

Basically, you sohuld just make the game have two weapons, instead of three, or wait for the next version to come out, so you can set the keys and make switching easier (1,2,3).

The game (I think) is supposed to be simple. A team based retro game with a few twists. Adding in all this is just making it more and more different from what I argue to be the purpose of this game. And if you start trying to get dropping weapons in the middle of a battle in here, I'm not sure I'm gonna play much longer.

#9 I'd use that loadout to cap the flag, or steal them in ZC/Ret. not to play defense.

Mines are nearly completely useless against someone that knows how to see them (enemy mines they are reasonably visible on my monitor, i'll only miss them if i'm using turbo or being careless). They work wonders against people that aren't aware of them though.

anyone respawning to chase me is going to have turbo + shield and 3 weapons, and unless there is a loadout zone in their path to chase me, chances are they aren't going to be able to catch up to me multiple times on the return home. Of course that completely depends on the map.

anyway, i could live with changes like that, but they definately need to be tested extensively.

#10 I have said several times on this forum that I would like to be able to choose only 2 weapons. You don't have to offer any kind of performance bonus in return because I actually want to have just 2 weapons. It would make it easier to switch back and forth between the two weapons that I actually use.

#11 Zac: This benefits defenders as much as offense. Energy and increased speed is just as useful for defenders. I'm not sure why these changes are seen as benefitting attackers more. Perhaps if you could elaborate?

I also don't see why this 'forces' any particular selection of items. All it does is allow people to be a bit more specialized... but specialized also means 'useless in other situations'. This is a tradeoff. I believe this still is simple and in the spirit of Zap.

Eric: I know you'd like to have fewer than 3 weapons, because switching weapons with the current interface is hard. My suggestion has little to do with your desire... I did not suggest it as a solution to your problem, because the REAL solution to your problem is a better interface/customizable keys.

If the majority of players only want 1 or 2 weapons... seriously, that means something is wrong with the weapons. It means that their purpose is not different enough, or they are not effective enough. Optimally, all 5 of the weapons should contribute equally to the success of the team (though not necessarily equally to damage done or kills). This produces the most variety and flexibility of play styles without increasing the complexity of the game.

#12 This sounds like an excellent mod. Wait for TorqueApp release. :)

#13 Hmm. Would this be free?

#14 I doubt TorqueApp will be free, but once the game is ported to TorqueApp you'll be able to make mods more or less for free i think.

#15 I have no problem submitting patches to an open source project... but I don't think I'd go as far as to buy Torque just so I could mod Zap. :-)

#16 You certainly wouldn't have to do that (at least as far as i know anyway, mods are usually just script in torque i think)

#17 We'd probably restrict modding to those who had bought Zap.

#18 Modding capability, or mods entirely?

#19 I dunno, would you pay to play mods? :)