Using torque for MMORPG with realistic water?
by Raymond Van Beek · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 11/22/2001 (11:51 pm) · 15 replies
Hi everyone.
My english isn't all that well since it's not my native language. So my appolegies for typo's and all.
My question is the following.
I'm a new programmer, but not new to designing and I'm currently designing a MMORPG.
I would like to know if the water part of the Torque engine is capable of realistic water. Like waves reacting to wind and storms.
Part of the game will be being able to use boats.
A little to the idea of SeaDogs.
Can anyone tell me if Torque can handle this?
Thanks.
My english isn't all that well since it's not my native language. So my appolegies for typo's and all.
My question is the following.
I'm a new programmer, but not new to designing and I'm currently designing a MMORPG.
I would like to know if the water part of the Torque engine is capable of realistic water. Like waves reacting to wind and storms.
Part of the game will be being able to use boats.
A little to the idea of SeaDogs.
Can anyone tell me if Torque can handle this?
Thanks.
#2
If you want to get a feel for what Torque's water can do straight out of the box, go get the Realm Wars demo and play around with the water in the editor. And, of course, if you buy it, you can always write as much water capability as you want! :)
04/13/2002 (7:59 pm)
Torque's water, right now, is basically a plane. It moves up and down, and it looks good, but it's not a real, totally accurate fluid dynamics simulation (we wish ;). So... That means that you're stuck with one water level for your map, and no currents as such. You can make zones, I believe, which will shove players around...If you want to get a feel for what Torque's water can do straight out of the box, go get the Realm Wars demo and play around with the water in the editor. And, of course, if you buy it, you can always write as much water capability as you want! :)
#3
I am currently working on environment cube map bump reflection/refraction using shaders but that means you will need geForce3 level hardware.
I'm also looking at real fluid dynamics but existing algorithms only work well for small areas of water. I am also looking into coupling a local-eye effect for turbulence like boat/character wakes etc.
You have to sacrifice serious CPU horse-power to deal with the FFT's needed to simulate hyper-realistic fluids. A compromise is obviously called for and that will hopefully be my solution.
Watch this space.
04/14/2002 (12:26 pm)
I have already expanded the fluid rendering system for much more control over the surfaces.I am currently working on environment cube map bump reflection/refraction using shaders but that means you will need geForce3 level hardware.
I'm also looking at real fluid dynamics but existing algorithms only work well for small areas of water. I am also looking into coupling a local-eye effect for turbulence like boat/character wakes etc.
You have to sacrifice serious CPU horse-power to deal with the FFT's needed to simulate hyper-realistic fluids. A compromise is obviously called for and that will hopefully be my solution.
Watch this space.
#4
04/23/2002 (11:04 pm)
Today I watched an AVI of the water effects in the new LithTech Jupiter engine and it's nothing short of stunning (it can be downloaded here - http://www.bluesnews.com/files/ltgdc/water01.shtml). I don't expect Torque to be doing this anytime soon, but a man can dream. =) 
#5
I have a Lithtech license available to me... and I am strongly leaning towards Torque... download the NOLF or AvP2 SDK(not sure if the later is generally available?) and look at the game source... ewwwwww... there may be some good games in development using this stuff, but so far only Monolith has managed to make anything really good... ok, so I liked MMIX.. but I think Lithtech actually hurt their development... um, hope nobody from Lithtech is reading this :)
People can actually make a difference here... I don't wanna be handed down no nuthin! Even if it is pretty!
-J
04/23/2002 (11:32 pm)
I saw that too.. and for a moment hypnotized.. gee how pretty... then I remembered, Gameplay Gameplay Gameplay! Editing, Editing, Editing! Community, Community, Community!I have a Lithtech license available to me... and I am strongly leaning towards Torque... download the NOLF or AvP2 SDK(not sure if the later is generally available?) and look at the game source... ewwwwww... there may be some good games in development using this stuff, but so far only Monolith has managed to make anything really good... ok, so I liked MMIX.. but I think Lithtech actually hurt their development... um, hope nobody from Lithtech is reading this :)
People can actually make a difference here... I don't wanna be handed down no nuthin! Even if it is pretty!
-J
#7
Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game... the thing it seems most people want to make these days... unfortunately I do to
-J
04/23/2002 (11:47 pm)
Where is that rock you have been under? I wouldn't mind spending a few hours under it :)Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game... the thing it seems most people want to make these days... unfortunately I do to
-J
#8
04/24/2002 (12:32 am)
Why does everybody want to make MMORPG's? If there's one kind of game that's extremely difficult to make (and sell) it's a MMORPG. These projects are sprouting faster than rabbits can breed. I'll be surprised if even 1% of them get ever finished
#9
heh, well im making a rpg, only im doing it as a fps so what do i call it?
fpsrpg lol.
(no offence ment to anyone, just my opinion)
04/24/2002 (5:22 am)
thats what i thought, just a prefix someone thought sounded cool and stuck on there,i think its kinda silly, just rpg means the same thing.heh, well im making a rpg, only im doing it as a fps so what do i call it?
fpsrpg lol.
(no offence ment to anyone, just my opinion)
#10
But anyhow, I still stick with TGE... and I'm sure we will have some freakin' water soon, too!! :-))
04/24/2002 (5:44 am)
OMG!! That LithTech water is incredible!! Maybe even better than in Morrowind (have to see it in an actual game environment, though...)! Sweet!!But anyhow, I still stick with TGE... and I'm sure we will have some freakin' water soon, too!! :-))
#11
MMORPG means Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, like Lineage, Everquest etc. A RPG where you play online with lots of other players and a persistant world.
RPG means Role Playing Game, such as Final Fantasy, Diablo etc. A RPG which you play by yourself or perhaps a friend nearby but not with lots of other players. (RPG can also mean a classic pen and paper game)
05/01/2002 (8:55 am)
Ace, there is a diffrence:MMORPG means Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, like Lineage, Everquest etc. A RPG where you play online with lots of other players and a persistant world.
RPG means Role Playing Game, such as Final Fantasy, Diablo etc. A RPG which you play by yourself or perhaps a friend nearby but not with lots of other players. (RPG can also mean a classic pen and paper game)
#12
05/01/2002 (9:44 am)
ahh, well that makes more sence then, thanks for setting me straight, (no i dont have any interest in that type of game)
#13
Check out waterFX @ www.3dpipeline.com/. They have a white paper that shows code/formulae on how they did it.
Deep ocean waves
Ripple effects
Boat wake effects
Bobbing objects effects
Bump mapping routines
Texture/lighting map generation
Eric
05/01/2002 (9:46 am)
Melv,Check out waterFX @ www.3dpipeline.com/. They have a white paper that shows code/formulae on how they did it.
Deep ocean waves
Ripple effects
Boat wake effects
Bobbing objects effects
Bump mapping routines
Texture/lighting map generation
Eric
#15
I am evaluating Torque for a sailboat simulator. Right :-) A fps game without the guns and the killin'. What I am interested in is:
- Moving structures with forward thrust based on
- Dynamic wind speed and direction
- Dynamic current
- Structure dynamics
- Dynamic weather conditions
- Waves, big waves :-)
- Boat wake movements
- Bobbing effects
Can Torque handle this?
07/08/2002 (11:47 pm)
Melv, any news on the progress of improved water (fluid) action?I am evaluating Torque for a sailboat simulator. Right :-) A fps game without the guns and the killin'. What I am interested in is:
- Moving structures with forward thrust based on
- Dynamic wind speed and direction
- Dynamic current
- Structure dynamics
- Dynamic weather conditions
- Waves, big waves :-)
- Boat wake movements
- Bobbing effects
Can Torque handle this?
Torque Owner Gordon Cranford