Mac mini
by Kurtis Seebaldt · in Torque Game Engine · 01/11/2005 (12:35 pm) · 68 replies
#22
01/12/2005 (9:35 am)
Ben you think everything is HOT...weren't you saying you were going to put something in your pants yesterday....
#23
Oh my...nah, gonna leave THAT one alone...it's just an open door to way too many things!
Edit: Ok, I just couldn't leave it alone. Hey Ben, just how much room do you have in your pants anyway? /duck
01/12/2005 (9:37 am)
Quote:
Ben you think everything is HOT...weren't you saying you were going to put something in your pants yesterday....
Oh my...nah, gonna leave THAT one alone...it's just an open door to way too many things!
Edit: Ok, I just couldn't leave it alone. Hey Ben, just how much room do you have in your pants anyway? /duck
#24
The mini mac is a good idea - small, plain, comes in a metal box, and seems relatively powerful - and AS I ALREADY STATED I would consider buying one. My problem isnt with the mini mac, but rather with the image that apple seems as if its trying to project with its other "aesthetically pleasing" "cute" etc products.
There are several things apple has done to give me absolutely no desire to be assiciated with their products:
Hit #1: Used ta wuz, a loong tyme ago, apple machines were for those who didnt know a keyboard from their, well, you know. Or they were used almost exclusively by yuppies and your artist types. I never wanted to be associated with either group.
Hit #2: Again I restate the marketing scheme they used with the new VW Bug - any vehicle with a vase affixed to the dash sure isnt targeted at men! (I have flowers in my house, but in a car? Come on now....). Most of the new bugs I see are driven by either a teen/early 20s girl, or a 50 year old woman who seems to be trying to be "young again".
Hit #3: I see their machines and say to myself "WTF! Since when did computers become something more than a tool? Why the he%& does anyone need colored crap all over their computer! Yeah I wont be able to put anythig on top of that monitor without it sliding off." An on and on.
Hit #4: Their commercials just turn me off to their products
Hit #5: I went into this post and to the apple site wondering if theyve got anything cool or new, and yes, they did! The mini mac. Then I began to read about it and things such as "stylish" and "enchanting" hopped out at me, and I was done.
In conclusion I say that apple does have some great products, especially the OS. But on the flipside, I dont want to be associated with a company that markets their products to a *seemingly* teenage, whats-in-at-the-moment, looks only, etc audience. Do I like Dell, Gateway, HP/Compaq you may wonder....GOD NO! So Im not being biased against Apple here FYI.
01/12/2005 (9:53 am)
Dont want to hijack the thread but seems I'll have to to get my point across.The mini mac is a good idea - small, plain, comes in a metal box, and seems relatively powerful - and AS I ALREADY STATED I would consider buying one. My problem isnt with the mini mac, but rather with the image that apple seems as if its trying to project with its other "aesthetically pleasing" "cute" etc products.
There are several things apple has done to give me absolutely no desire to be assiciated with their products:
Hit #1: Used ta wuz, a loong tyme ago, apple machines were for those who didnt know a keyboard from their, well, you know. Or they were used almost exclusively by yuppies and your artist types. I never wanted to be associated with either group.
Hit #2: Again I restate the marketing scheme they used with the new VW Bug - any vehicle with a vase affixed to the dash sure isnt targeted at men! (I have flowers in my house, but in a car? Come on now....). Most of the new bugs I see are driven by either a teen/early 20s girl, or a 50 year old woman who seems to be trying to be "young again".
Hit #3: I see their machines and say to myself "WTF! Since when did computers become something more than a tool? Why the he%& does anyone need colored crap all over their computer! Yeah I wont be able to put anythig on top of that monitor without it sliding off." An on and on.
Hit #4: Their commercials just turn me off to their products
Hit #5: I went into this post and to the apple site wondering if theyve got anything cool or new, and yes, they did! The mini mac. Then I began to read about it and things such as "stylish" and "enchanting" hopped out at me, and I was done.
In conclusion I say that apple does have some great products, especially the OS. But on the flipside, I dont want to be associated with a company that markets their products to a *seemingly* teenage, whats-in-at-the-moment, looks only, etc audience. Do I like Dell, Gateway, HP/Compaq you may wonder....GOD NO! So Im not being biased against Apple here FYI.
#25
I have no problem with their ads. They seem to be getting more attention so I'm betting their marketing is working *shrug*.. heck I have no marketing so what can I say.
EDIT: lol... now I know what you were referring too... ok I'm taking your old stance and leaving that one alone, I want to know nothing about how much room or whats in his pants.
01/12/2005 (10:01 am)
I'm slowly converting to a mac fan... now beleive me this not a trivial thing... I have bashed macs for quite some time...I have no problem with their ads. They seem to be getting more attention so I'm betting their marketing is working *shrug*.. heck I have no marketing so what can I say.
EDIT: lol... now I know what you were referring too... ok I'm taking your old stance and leaving that one alone, I want to know nothing about how much room or whats in his pants.
#26
I think this is clearly understood. What I don't think you are getting is that many here do no agree with your 'teenybopper-girl' assessment of the marketing approach. I like apple products.. I think they are slick.
The marketing approach they are taking has brought Apple back from near demise to the pinacle of 'cool' and 'connected'. You can disagree and state that it is not working to reach you.. and that is cool, but it is working for a LOT of people.
I also want to point out that my personal experience with 'apple types' is that they are not the 'didn't know a keyboard from their ..." and in fact, the opposite is true. Most of the mac users I know where 'connected' way back in the 80's... when most did not know what a computer was for.
I understand where you are coming from. I also think that your assessment of the target markets and the purchaser motivations are WAY off base. What works for you works for you, but be careful not to let your own biases form yoru understanding of what makes a good product.
01/12/2005 (10:04 am)
Quote:My problem isnt with the mini mac, but rather with the image that apple seems as if its trying to project with its other "aesthetically pleasing" "cute" etc products.
I think this is clearly understood. What I don't think you are getting is that many here do no agree with your 'teenybopper-girl' assessment of the marketing approach. I like apple products.. I think they are slick.
The marketing approach they are taking has brought Apple back from near demise to the pinacle of 'cool' and 'connected'. You can disagree and state that it is not working to reach you.. and that is cool, but it is working for a LOT of people.
I also want to point out that my personal experience with 'apple types' is that they are not the 'didn't know a keyboard from their ..." and in fact, the opposite is true. Most of the mac users I know where 'connected' way back in the 80's... when most did not know what a computer was for.
I understand where you are coming from. I also think that your assessment of the target markets and the purchaser motivations are WAY off base. What works for you works for you, but be careful not to let your own biases form yoru understanding of what makes a good product.
#27
Maybe I'll pick up a twin G5 on the cheap in 5 years when my current AMD64 is out of fashion!! :)
01/12/2005 (5:43 pm)
Crap - I upgraded my PC over Christmas, when I could have considered this instead. It probably doesn't have enough power for me but at the price it would be the entry into the Mac market I've always wanted. *sigh*Maybe I'll pick up a twin G5 on the cheap in 5 years when my current AMD64 is out of fashion!! :)
#28
(I wonder if they can share kybd and monitor through an AB switch?)
01/12/2005 (5:49 pm)
I think it would look really CUTE sitting on top of my dual-boot Linunx/WinXP box!(I wonder if they can share kybd and monitor through an AB switch?)
#29
I have been using Mac's off and on since they originally came out. It looks like they are on again. I remember the 1984 commercial, lol! This is great. I can't seem to hold my excitement.
01/12/2005 (6:33 pm)
Mac developement, here I come! Woohoo... Just placed my order for one. I have been using Mac's off and on since they originally came out. It looks like they are on again. I remember the 1984 commercial, lol! This is great. I can't seem to hold my excitement.
#30
quote: I think it would look really CUTE sitting on top of my dual-boot Linunx/WinXP box!
!@#$ yeah! so do I!
The only problem I have with mac is that there is zero software for them, unless there is someway to run windows software on one without resorting to the insanely slow virtual pc...
01/12/2005 (7:01 pm)
This looks awesome,$500 is like, free almost, compared to what your getting, quote: I think it would look really CUTE sitting on top of my dual-boot Linunx/WinXP box!
!@#$ yeah! so do I!
The only problem I have with mac is that there is zero software for them, unless there is someway to run windows software on one without resorting to the insanely slow virtual pc...
#31
I personally won't buy one, not because I think that they might reflect my personality or that I dislike Apple. It's just that I have fun being able to work on my big, bulky PC, and replace hardware easily. That even means that I lose room on my desk. :-)
01/12/2005 (7:03 pm)
Everyone has their own opinions. In my most humble opinion, I agree that Apple has targeted Artists and younger groups, but I also think that Apple has realized that the Mac needed it to also please others, and will continue to in order to form that.I personally won't buy one, not because I think that they might reflect my personality or that I dislike Apple. It's just that I have fun being able to work on my big, bulky PC, and replace hardware easily. That even means that I lose room on my desk. :-)
#32
G4 chips DO NOT have DDR support so the RAM runs single rate at 167 Mhz
Mac Mini has a 167 Mhz System Bus
The Radeon 9200 will NOT support the upcoming "Core Image" feature that will be introduced in OSX Tiger.
Total Worth of the Mac Mini Parts.....
VidCard $10
Ram $18
HardDrive $31
CD-RW/DVD $30
G4 CPU - Approx. $25 (This chip is not available on the market, this is the same G4 that was introduced on Jan 9th, 2001 with 512Kb L2 cache and has a memory bandwidth of 1064 MB's/sec and there is no L3 cache at all.)
On a side note the phrase "room for up to 1GB PC2700 main memory" actually means "take out the 256MB RAM board and put in a 1 GIG RAM board"
Overall the parts in the Mac-mini are virtually identical in specs to the Power Macintosh G4 models discontinued on June 23, 2003(The PM-G4 actually had slightly better specs in a few areas). It wouldn't surprise me if it was built with refurbished parts from trade-ins or unsold units or parts that were taking up space in a warehouse somewhere. I can't help but wonder how well this thing will even run OSX much less a decent video game or even TGE, but I'm sure someone will find out and tell us all about it.
Mac Mini == 3 year old Apple technology packed into a new case.
01/15/2005 (12:50 am)
Just a warning to those not paying attention....G4 chips DO NOT have DDR support so the RAM runs single rate at 167 Mhz
Mac Mini has a 167 Mhz System Bus
The Radeon 9200 will NOT support the upcoming "Core Image" feature that will be introduced in OSX Tiger.
Total Worth of the Mac Mini Parts.....
VidCard $10
Ram $18
HardDrive $31
CD-RW/DVD $30
G4 CPU - Approx. $25 (This chip is not available on the market, this is the same G4 that was introduced on Jan 9th, 2001 with 512Kb L2 cache and has a memory bandwidth of 1064 MB's/sec and there is no L3 cache at all.)
On a side note the phrase "room for up to 1GB PC2700 main memory" actually means "take out the 256MB RAM board and put in a 1 GIG RAM board"
Overall the parts in the Mac-mini are virtually identical in specs to the Power Macintosh G4 models discontinued on June 23, 2003(The PM-G4 actually had slightly better specs in a few areas). It wouldn't surprise me if it was built with refurbished parts from trade-ins or unsold units or parts that were taking up space in a warehouse somewhere. I can't help but wonder how well this thing will even run OSX much less a decent video game or even TGE, but I'm sure someone will find out and tell us all about it.
Mac Mini == 3 year old Apple technology packed into a new case.
#33
monitor - 200
new ram - 80
new vid card - 80
mouse and keyboard - 30
total 960.00
about same price as a pc... probably a bit more..
hmmm...
01/15/2005 (12:58 am)
Mac mini - 500monitor - 200
new ram - 80
new vid card - 80
mouse and keyboard - 30
total 960.00
about same price as a pc... probably a bit more..
hmmm...
#34
Also, I'll put my '67 Austin Healy Sprite up against any car..... 0-60 in 4.2 secs. My Triumph Trophy 900 beats my mates FJR1300 to 100 too.... Of course I would have to put it back together and not fall off again to do that atm..... :-)
No, I reackon apple have made the perfect small dev box, Ram really needs to be more, but it has USB and Firewire for upgrading storage. No upgradable video, but then at its price point, its just as practical to replace it with a newer version for that, and if you really need faster video you are going to have to bite the bullet and get a bigger mac.
I think its perfect to replace my aging G3 Beige box with its piddly G4 upgrade and SDRAM. And it will take up no extra space as it will perch neatly on top of my PC, and share my existing kvm. Thats got to be better than yet another big beige box (G3) and a seperate apple 21" display (Huuuuge) and keyboard and mouse. Although I could use my kvm for that too, its a huge pain trying to find somewhere with the adb adapters.
Of course, being in the UK, I'm undoubtably going to pay a premium to get get one.... as always.
01/15/2005 (4:52 am)
Yah, but you can buy a belkin kvm and use the same keyboard mouse and monitor. Also, I'll put my '67 Austin Healy Sprite up against any car..... 0-60 in 4.2 secs. My Triumph Trophy 900 beats my mates FJR1300 to 100 too.... Of course I would have to put it back together and not fall off again to do that atm..... :-)
No, I reackon apple have made the perfect small dev box, Ram really needs to be more, but it has USB and Firewire for upgrading storage. No upgradable video, but then at its price point, its just as practical to replace it with a newer version for that, and if you really need faster video you are going to have to bite the bullet and get a bigger mac.
I think its perfect to replace my aging G3 Beige box with its piddly G4 upgrade and SDRAM. And it will take up no extra space as it will perch neatly on top of my PC, and share my existing kvm. Thats got to be better than yet another big beige box (G3) and a seperate apple 21" display (Huuuuge) and keyboard and mouse. Although I could use my kvm for that too, its a huge pain trying to find somewhere with the adb adapters.
Of course, being in the UK, I'm undoubtably going to pay a premium to get get one....
#35
It's not the most powerful hardware out there, but it's not total crap either. And sorry, all the machines in this price range AND with this size factors were, unfortunately, crap.
Say what you want about Apple, but they finally have a good OS *and* well-engineered hardware. Is it perfect? No. Is it a bit pricy? Yes-ish. But what Apple really does is sit down on their buns and think about the user experience, and this attention to little details shows that they're on the right track. They're not "there" yet, but they do work hard to get there.
01/15/2005 (5:30 am)
Well, I for one ordered a Mac Mini to put on my dev machine, so I can use a KVM switch to simply pop back and forth between platforms. What could be better for cross-platform games? Unless you're working with the TSE, this little box is perfect to get a Mac-binary of your new game. Having a small game market also means that you can stir up quite a bit with new games.It's not the most powerful hardware out there, but it's not total crap either. And sorry, all the machines in this price range AND with this size factors were, unfortunately, crap.
Say what you want about Apple, but they finally have a good OS *and* well-engineered hardware. Is it perfect? No. Is it a bit pricy? Yes-ish. But what Apple really does is sit down on their buns and think about the user experience, and this attention to little details shows that they're on the right track. They're not "there" yet, but they do work hard to get there.
#36
As a primary dev system, it might be pushing it nowadays, but it is usable. My primary work machine is my 3-year-old Powerbook G4. Just for comparison here are its specs:
800 MHz G4
1 GB RAM (2 slots)
32 MB Mobility Radeon 7500
2 USB 1 port
1 Firewire 400 port
Airport (802.11b)
Combo Drive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
15" widescreen display
Cost in 2002: $3000
My Powerbook is quite a bit slower than the Mac mini but has been running TGE projects pretty well since I've had it. I can't run everything at the highest settings, but I get playable performance.
Also note that I use Maya, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Final Cut Pro, and other graphics app without much trouble. Again, not the fastest machine nowadays, but it's fast enough to get my work done.
So, for $500+, the Mac mini is a pretty decent dev system. If anything, it's a really good entry point into the world of OS X.
01/15/2005 (10:49 am)
I think the Mac mini makes a great secondary dev system for indies. It's wonderful for Windows and Linux devs to have for Mac ports. It's great for existing Mac devs -- who will most likely have a much faster machine like an iMac G5 or a Powermac G5 -- to have as a lower-end test system. Sure, it's not the latest and fastest parts, but it's good for it's price.As a primary dev system, it might be pushing it nowadays, but it is usable. My primary work machine is my 3-year-old Powerbook G4. Just for comparison here are its specs:
800 MHz G4
1 GB RAM (2 slots)
32 MB Mobility Radeon 7500
2 USB 1 port
1 Firewire 400 port
Airport (802.11b)
Combo Drive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
15" widescreen display
Cost in 2002: $3000
My Powerbook is quite a bit slower than the Mac mini but has been running TGE projects pretty well since I've had it. I can't run everything at the highest settings, but I get playable performance.
Also note that I use Maya, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Final Cut Pro, and other graphics app without much trouble. Again, not the fastest machine nowadays, but it's fast enough to get my work done.
So, for $500+, the Mac mini is a pretty decent dev system. If anything, it's a really good entry point into the world of OS X.
#37
Wow Gonzo, you're sure over the top!
What the Mac Mini essentially is, is the same as the eMac sitting beside me right now that I bought new last summer, minus the monitor. The same bus speed, the same video card, the same memory (although I upgraded to 512MB).
And you know what? It runs OSX fine. It runs TGE fine. It allows me to develop Mac software.
In fact, it allows me to make money.
- LightWave Dave
01/15/2005 (11:22 am)
Greetings!Wow Gonzo, you're sure over the top!
What the Mac Mini essentially is, is the same as the eMac sitting beside me right now that I bought new last summer, minus the monitor. The same bus speed, the same video card, the same memory (although I upgraded to 512MB).
And you know what? It runs OSX fine. It runs TGE fine. It allows me to develop Mac software.
In fact, it allows me to make money.
- LightWave Dave
#38
The list could go on. And these are all solid applications... I've used them all. People complain that Macs are so much more expensive. And yet they go buy a barebone PC and by the time they buy all their licensed software they've often paid more.
I'll say that I don't own a mac. I built my own PC on the cheap, and get by with opensource software for the most part. I would love to get a mac, but it'll be awhile before I'll allow myself to spend money on it. The mac mini is an awesome idea. That opens the door to allow me to port to Mac once my game is close to done. Now _that_ is cool.
01/15/2005 (1:51 pm)
I'm always disappointed to see the "Mac has no software" argument. In my experience, Macs _come with_ a lot of good software. Xcode - compiler. GarageBand - music composition. iMovie - video editing. iDVD - DVD mastering. MarbleBlast Gold - game. AppleWorks - MS Office replacement. OSX - rather nice OS.The list could go on. And these are all solid applications... I've used them all. People complain that Macs are so much more expensive. And yet they go buy a barebone PC and by the time they buy all their licensed software they've often paid more.
I'll say that I don't own a mac. I built my own PC on the cheap, and get by with opensource software for the most part. I would love to get a mac, but it'll be awhile before I'll allow myself to spend money on it. The mac mini is an awesome idea. That opens the door to allow me to port to Mac once my game is close to done. Now _that_ is cool.
#39
I sadly invested in some cheap iMacs about a day before therse were announced as back up dev machines.
Now I have to find a way to get rid of these paperwieghts and buy the cool stuff...
01/15/2005 (2:25 pm)
This has trhe same specs as my iBook, and it runs TGE just fine.I sadly invested in some cheap iMacs about a day before therse were announced as back up dev machines.
Now I have to find a way to get rid of these paperwieghts and buy the cool stuff...
#40
www.cappuccinopc.com/mochae5042b.asp
www.cappuccinopc.com/mochae7042b.asp
@ LWD
"Wow Gonzo, you're sure over the top!"
I'm not saying "Don't buy it", I'm just presenting facts that Apple tries very hard to not acknowledge or admit. I find their deceptions distasteful and feel it's only fair to warn less savy users what exactly they are getting. Like the DDR RAM for example. Apple loves to advertise the DDR ram in their computers, but try to find information on their site about the fact that G4's don't have DDR support. Why won't they just list that info in the specs instead of avoiding the topic completely? The lack of support for "Core Image" is another perfect example. That information was actually on the Apple site untill people started talking about it. Someone at Apple realized that the truth might hurt sales and that information got yanked, never to be seen again. Ironic that a brand new Apple computer was not going to fully support their next OS update, but that's the way they operate. Me personally, before I'd plop down 500-600 bucks on the mini just for compiling or development I would look into purchase of a used Mac of better quality on Ebay or various used Mac sites. But that's just me.
01/15/2005 (10:56 pm)
Mini PC anyone?www.cappuccinopc.com/mochae5042b.asp
www.cappuccinopc.com/mochae7042b.asp
@ LWD
"Wow Gonzo, you're sure over the top!"
I'm not saying "Don't buy it", I'm just presenting facts that Apple tries very hard to not acknowledge or admit. I find their deceptions distasteful and feel it's only fair to warn less savy users what exactly they are getting. Like the DDR RAM for example. Apple loves to advertise the DDR ram in their computers, but try to find information on their site about the fact that G4's don't have DDR support. Why won't they just list that info in the specs instead of avoiding the topic completely? The lack of support for "Core Image" is another perfect example. That information was actually on the Apple site untill people started talking about it. Someone at Apple realized that the truth might hurt sales and that information got yanked, never to be seen again. Ironic that a brand new Apple computer was not going to fully support their next OS update, but that's the way they operate. Me personally, before I'd plop down 500-600 bucks on the mini just for compiling or development I would look into purchase of a used Mac of better quality on Ebay or various used Mac sites. But that's just me.
Torque 3D Owner Matthew Langley
Torque
I am a PC Networker/Tech turned game developer... I see macs from a networking standpoint of there limitations. This is why my image has built to this point... In this sme image Windows is the devil and Linux is God...
but I love what they are doing now.
@Nate: Suck down your pride man!
the mini is great... from a pc tech/ networking standpoint I love it, I loved jump drives, easy to carry drivers arround, patches, fixes, etc... External drives became developed, I love them, can throw data on it and share it between multiple computers with just carring a little tote bag that will hold it... (great for any development)...
these minis are wonderful... People may argue that everything getting smaller and smaller is hype, but its insanely usefull... a brilliant dev station... great for networking purposes too, you need to test out a networking node you can cary this thing in no time, need to transfer info you put it down next to your current pc, hook up power and a switch to use the same monitor and you got two machines next to eachother... heck you can stack 5 of these suckers and have 5 machines, a couple rendering things, a couple exporting things, and the final one to browse the net or play MBG... you can't lose..
the -only- issue I have with this is the video card
ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB of DDR SDRAM with AGP 4X support
9200 isnt too bad, but 32mb is a bit weak... I am till waiting for compact things like these (along with laptops) to allow interchanging of cards, of course this goes against the compact design... but I'm sure you all feel my pain