Compilation (Sound) problems - OS X
by Luis Commins · in Torque Game Engine · 01/09/2005 (5:19 pm) · 27 replies
Hiya,
Ok, I guess a few are still having sound issues (yep, I've gone through several forum searches, recompiled, recreated and reeverything). My issue is that I cannot get it to compile and run properly (when it does with the 'fixes', most of the times it will not compile) so it just hangs there, like an invisible app (I get a pull down menu, but it doesn't quit...). And the error that is presented is 'THE' Vorbis error, and some variants of. Which on initial inspection appeared to have incomplete Vorbis frameworks.
I've even tried converting the project to Native (running XCode 1.5 on OS X 10.3.7) with all the suggestions.
I've even recreated the Vorbis framework from fresh downloads off the Vorbis site.
Nada, Zilch.
I CAN run the demo that's included, without audio of course, but that's not the point.
Seeing some of the posts I can see that these issues are STILL unresolved.
This needs to be sorted out pronto. I want to deploy to multiple platforms and develop on the Mac and the way things are looking that seems like a no-no.
I've just forked out $100, which is a lot for me, on something I cannot even begin to use.
Every day that passes I hope to see a simple 'doh!' solution, but there hasn't been one.
If the next release fixes this, I'm willing to wait. If the next release is over a month away, I will not wait.
Cheers,
Luis.
Ok, I guess a few are still having sound issues (yep, I've gone through several forum searches, recompiled, recreated and reeverything). My issue is that I cannot get it to compile and run properly (when it does with the 'fixes', most of the times it will not compile) so it just hangs there, like an invisible app (I get a pull down menu, but it doesn't quit...). And the error that is presented is 'THE' Vorbis error, and some variants of. Which on initial inspection appeared to have incomplete Vorbis frameworks.
I've even tried converting the project to Native (running XCode 1.5 on OS X 10.3.7) with all the suggestions.
I've even recreated the Vorbis framework from fresh downloads off the Vorbis site.
Nada, Zilch.
I CAN run the demo that's included, without audio of course, but that's not the point.
Seeing some of the posts I can see that these issues are STILL unresolved.
This needs to be sorted out pronto. I want to deploy to multiple platforms and develop on the Mac and the way things are looking that seems like a no-no.
I've just forked out $100, which is a lot for me, on something I cannot even begin to use.
Every day that passes I hope to see a simple 'doh!' solution, but there hasn't been one.
If the next release fixes this, I'm willing to wait. If the next release is over a month away, I will not wait.
Cheers,
Luis.
#2
Old OpenAL, new OpenAL: No difference. In any case, why should I revert to an older version? It's not necessarily the case that I don't want to distribute with an older version, hey, if it works, fine. It doesn't. And in this case it's the lethargy to Mac users needs I abhor. Fix it, if OpenAl is 'broken'. Is it a privilige to own a Windows PC? Computers have no knowledge of social ranking, nor should they.
I've checked the forums and done all I could see, except rebuilding my Mac: I will not do it. Do you need to move house just to get new seat covers?
Besides, the search could use a little fine tuning: The advanced search page could have platform, version, etc specific search filters.
Lets face it: Torque on the Mac needs fixing. I was considering creating a Map editor but this has dampened my spirits somewhat for that project.
Cheers,
Luis.
01/11/2005 (10:49 am)
Yep, FFMPEG installed, but I directly pointed at the Vorbis Framework in XCode, so there 'shouldn't' be any issues with that, that's the point of the facility in XCode (converting it to Native enforces this so I've been told).Old OpenAL, new OpenAL: No difference. In any case, why should I revert to an older version? It's not necessarily the case that I don't want to distribute with an older version, hey, if it works, fine. It doesn't. And in this case it's the lethargy to Mac users needs I abhor. Fix it, if OpenAl is 'broken'. Is it a privilige to own a Windows PC? Computers have no knowledge of social ranking, nor should they.
I've checked the forums and done all I could see, except rebuilding my Mac: I will not do it. Do you need to move house just to get new seat covers?
Besides, the search could use a little fine tuning: The advanced search page could have platform, version, etc specific search filters.
Lets face it: Torque on the Mac needs fixing. I was considering creating a Map editor but this has dampened my spirits somewhat for that project.
Cheers,
Luis.
#3
01/13/2005 (4:54 am)
Luis, are you working with a version of the Vorbis framework which is specifically compiled to be accessible via the executable path? If not, that is the reason it's not working. If you want to do things that way, you have to re-compile the framework and tell it that you'll be accessing it from the exec. path, rather than the system lib folder. Likewise, if you experience trouble with OpenAL, you can point to a version you know works for sure directly by compiling an exec path version of the framework and including it in your project.
#4
No happy happy.
No joy joy.
Let's see: Starting Torque on Windows works most times, starting Torque on Mac doesn't work most times.
Hmmm. Am I missing something?
Can we have a vote on who is still having problems on the Mac? Speak up now, or am I the only one?
Cheers,
Luis.
01/13/2005 (3:34 pm)
Yep, done that. No go.No happy happy.
No joy joy.
Let's see: Starting Torque on Windows works most times, starting Torque on Mac doesn't work most times.
Hmmm. Am I missing something?
Can we have a vote on who is still having problems on the Mac? Speak up now, or am I the only one?
Cheers,
Luis.
#5
01/13/2005 (7:19 pm)
Have you tried just deleting FFMPEGX ? and after that run an update prebinding? The cocktail utility may do that for you.
#6
I actually use ffmpeg for a multimedia project I'm working on, so I cannot do without it.
It's a bit like selling someone a car and saying they can't use the wheels 'cos it makes it go wonky.
Why do I have to remove something I use? EVERYTHING ELSE WORKS!
This is very frustrating and I am very dissapointed.
I may try to get my money back, this has not worked since the day of purchase.
Cheers,
Luis.
01/15/2005 (5:33 pm)
I have seen that noted in other posts during my searches.I actually use ffmpeg for a multimedia project I'm working on, so I cannot do without it.
It's a bit like selling someone a car and saying they can't use the wheels 'cos it makes it go wonky.
Why do I have to remove something I use? EVERYTHING ELSE WORKS!
This is very frustrating and I am very dissapointed.
I may try to get my money back, this has not worked since the day of purchase.
Cheers,
Luis.
#7
What can I say ?
delete ffmpegX, update prebinding, test compiling torque, see if it's really the problem THEN moan.
Why the problem is with Torque and not with ffmpegX ? If you had purchased it AFTER purchasing Torque you would be complaining to the other guys.
There are others MPEG2 compressors on the market, I like MPEG2works very much, it uses most of the Unix compressors FFMPEGX use and doesn't have compatibility issues.
01/16/2005 (7:09 am)
@Luis,What can I say ?
delete ffmpegX, update prebinding, test compiling torque, see if it's really the problem THEN moan.
Why the problem is with Torque and not with ffmpegX ? If you had purchased it AFTER purchasing Torque you would be complaining to the other guys.
There are others MPEG2 compressors on the market, I like MPEG2works very much, it uses most of the Unix compressors FFMPEGX use and doesn't have compatibility issues.
#8
Regarding your question: If I had Torque running well, and then, deciding to purchase ffmpeg, I install it and then ffmpeg doesn't run - Yes, of course I would ask the ffmpeg team why.
Taking this further would result in me blaming Apple for the problem, so why don't I go there?
If reinstalling OS X would solve the problem I still would not do it: Would you?
I would maybe try MPEG2works if I had the time, presently I do not.
Cheers,
Luis.
01/16/2005 (3:19 pm)
Ok, I understand what you are saying. But in all the instances where I have installed and compiled I have never had an occasion where the product did not work after some effort. Even Linux sources that throw up errors on XCode are easily fixed. I have already spent too much time in trying to get Torque fixed.Regarding your question: If I had Torque running well, and then, deciding to purchase ffmpeg, I install it and then ffmpeg doesn't run - Yes, of course I would ask the ffmpeg team why.
Taking this further would result in me blaming Apple for the problem, so why don't I go there?
If reinstalling OS X would solve the problem I still would not do it: Would you?
I would maybe try MPEG2works if I had the time, presently I do not.
Cheers,
Luis.
#9
I don't know if you did it correctly, but rebuilding your vorbis and openal frameworks such that they can be loaded dynamically should solve all the problems. You appear to know what you're doing, so from the instructions above, it shouldn't be too hard to do.
Note as well that the next release of Torque will do this for you. We tried doing things Apple's "recommended" way w/ regards to frameworks and libs.. but we get issues like this when other programs (FFMPEGX might be an example) break the rules. So, now we have to do it the unrecommended way, which seems to work better for everyone.
I hope that you see the point. It's not out of neglect or anything that this problem exists. Apple's framework system isn't the prettiest beast around... we tried to handle frameworks via Apple's officially recommended practices, but when other programs clober up the system libs, we are left with problems.
So, bottom-line: even though this problem results from us following the recommended practices, we are addressing the issue in the next release, as you'll see noted here in the forums a few times already.
01/16/2005 (4:36 pm)
Luis, yes, blaming Torque instead of FFMPEGX isn't that logical. :) I don't know if you did it correctly, but rebuilding your vorbis and openal frameworks such that they can be loaded dynamically should solve all the problems. You appear to know what you're doing, so from the instructions above, it shouldn't be too hard to do.
Note as well that the next release of Torque will do this for you. We tried doing things Apple's "recommended" way w/ regards to frameworks and libs.. but we get issues like this when other programs (FFMPEGX might be an example) break the rules. So, now we have to do it the unrecommended way, which seems to work better for everyone.
I hope that you see the point. It's not out of neglect or anything that this problem exists. Apple's framework system isn't the prettiest beast around... we tried to handle frameworks via Apple's officially recommended practices, but when other programs clober up the system libs, we are left with problems.
So, bottom-line: even though this problem results from us following the recommended practices, we are addressing the issue in the next release, as you'll see noted here in the forums a few times already.
#10
I dump ffmpeg and do a clean build of Torque, and guess what? Still not working. I mess about with all the other tips, and you know what happens? Nada, same story.
And now I need to rebuild Vorbis and OpenAL and get them to load dynamically.
I'm tired. I don't know if I should just go to sleep and see if the next release is there when I awake.
Cheers,
Luis.
01/18/2005 (4:12 pm)
You know, it's just my luck. There I go, rush rush rush, get the project done so I can dump ffmpeg.I dump ffmpeg and do a clean build of Torque, and guess what? Still not working. I mess about with all the other tips, and you know what happens? Nada, same story.
And now I need to rebuild Vorbis and OpenAL and get them to load dynamically.
I'm tired. I don't know if I should just go to sleep and see if the next release is there when I awake.
Cheers,
Luis.
#11
Ah, I just thought of something, I we compiled the OpenAL framework as a dynamic framework for ZAP! Don't remember for sure... check out Zap's website, and download ZAP. You should see the OpenAL framework inside the Zap app bundle.
You can take the exact same framework, throw it in your Torque directory, and change your project settings to use the dynamic framework.
I am assuming from your posts above that you know enough to do all that. No problem if not though, all this framework stuff can get confusing, so just let us know with a post here if you get hung up and I or someone else can provide detailed instructions.
...Anyway, I think ZAP! has the correctly compiled framework, so check it out. If you don't find it there, you should be able to find it online pretty easily.
01/20/2005 (2:18 pm)
Luis, I bet someone around here could compile the OpenAL framework correctly for ya. Sorry about the inconvenience, but I don't know what to say other than that we'll have a fix for the problem in the next release, and the whole reason this issue exists in the first place is due to the system framework system being too easy for other programs to clobber.Ah, I just thought of something, I we compiled the OpenAL framework as a dynamic framework for ZAP! Don't remember for sure... check out Zap's website, and download ZAP. You should see the OpenAL framework inside the Zap app bundle.
You can take the exact same framework, throw it in your Torque directory, and change your project settings to use the dynamic framework.
I am assuming from your posts above that you know enough to do all that. No problem if not though, all this framework stuff can get confusing, so just let us know with a post here if you get hung up and I or someone else can provide detailed instructions.
...Anyway, I think ZAP! has the correctly compiled framework, so check it out. If you don't find it there, you should be able to find it online pretty easily.
#12
I downloaded Zap, which, for its small size, is an inspiration to what can be done with Torque.
I'll have a look inside it shortly and pull my brother in to have a look at Torque: He's more used to the nuances in XCode (he's pretty vocal about it's 'consistency' and after having mentioned my woes, although alarmed at it not working, concurrs with your evaluation as regards the framework structure).
Has anyone tried Torque with CodeWarrior? I'd be interested to hear what the results are, I've heard the code is tighter and faster than XCode.
I am still very upset by the fact that it hasn't worked since day one, with all the attempts to fix it since then. I suppose, after finding something that I can use to put this project that I have been fermenting for years on track, it falls over. With my job as a techie I get enough of things falling over, I hadn't expected Torque to be the same.
Is there a release date for the next version? Or would it be best to run from the CVS? If I don't get it to work...
Cheers,
Luis.
01/26/2005 (3:03 pm)
I haven't had a chance to get back to Torque lately, so tired I'm resting in between rests. Over five years of not more than 4 hours sleep a night is taking its toll.I downloaded Zap, which, for its small size, is an inspiration to what can be done with Torque.
I'll have a look inside it shortly and pull my brother in to have a look at Torque: He's more used to the nuances in XCode (he's pretty vocal about it's 'consistency' and after having mentioned my woes, although alarmed at it not working, concurrs with your evaluation as regards the framework structure).
Has anyone tried Torque with CodeWarrior? I'd be interested to hear what the results are, I've heard the code is tighter and faster than XCode.
I am still very upset by the fact that it hasn't worked since day one, with all the attempts to fix it since then. I suppose, after finding something that I can use to put this project that I have been fermenting for years on track, it falls over. With my job as a techie I get enough of things falling over, I hadn't expected Torque to be the same.
Is there a release date for the next version? Or would it be best to run from the CVS? If I don't get it to work...
Cheers,
Luis.
#13
This needs to be addressed: Either set up a patch to fix it or get the next version out soon!
Cheers,
Luis.
02/02/2005 (5:53 pm)
No reply to my last post, and I see that some more newbies are getting the same issue from the more recent posts.This needs to be addressed: Either set up a patch to fix it or get the next version out soon!
Cheers,
Luis.
#14
Sorry about it... but for now you could move on w/out worrying about the sound, couldn't you? And rest assured knowing the sound fix is on the way.
02/05/2005 (7:09 pm)
Luis, can't commit to a release date for the next version, and it's a large-ish update for a patch (new frameworks to include, new directory structures, new project file). So, have to wait a bit, or if your brother is familiar w/ XCode and OSX programming, he should be able to build the frameworks appropriately and get the project linking accordingly, using the info above.Sorry about it... but for now you could move on w/out worrying about the sound, couldn't you? And rest assured knowing the sound fix is on the way.
#15
I tried CVS last night, to get the latest and see if that would help, but I didn't manage to get it Checked out.
I'll work on it a little more (it's 5am here now) and then I'll stop, I'll find a soft spot I can collapse onto.
Cheers,
Luis.
02/05/2005 (7:54 pm)
Ok, when I trash the sound option it still doesn't compile, it just hangs there, with the menu showing but nothing happening. The lights are on but nobody's home.I tried CVS last night, to get the latest and see if that would help, but I didn't manage to get it Checked out.
I'll work on it a little more (it's 5am here now) and then I'll stop, I'll find a soft spot I can collapse onto.
Cheers,
Luis.
#16
I have upgraded gcc with the November 2004 patch on the Apple Developer site, upgraded the project within XCode and set Predictive Compilation to on.
This worked and now compiles without error (this is the standard build, NOT from CVS) but only runs from within XCode. Well, at least that's one obstacle taken care of.
Cheers,
Luis.
03/16/2005 (4:44 pm)
Well, such nice and constant feedback...I have upgraded gcc with the November 2004 patch on the Apple Developer site, upgraded the project within XCode and set Predictive Compilation to on.
This worked and now compiles without error (this is the standard build, NOT from CVS) but only runs from within XCode. Well, at least that's one obstacle taken care of.
Cheers,
Luis.
#17
yes, the nice and constant feedback is touching, isn't it? (wipes tear)
not that I would know anything about being frustrated.
I also got mine (mostly) working. And no, it was not due to the 'nice and constant feedback'.
I guess GG is using different definitions of 'cross platform'. I know Apple is a big supporter of Torque these days, makes one wonder if they know the difficulties we face.
Hopefully Tiger/XCode 2.0 will ease our burden. Either that, or maybe GG will actually make good on their cross-platform boast.
There might even be some good suggestions in the forums this past week. I've stopped reading them. These days if I have a problem I just think about it and try other stuff. It seems to be quicker and more productive. Good thing that excellent documentation is coming soon!!!!!!
It's a little annoying.
03/18/2005 (7:45 pm)
Luis-yes, the nice and constant feedback is touching, isn't it? (wipes tear)
not that I would know anything about being frustrated.
I also got mine (mostly) working. And no, it was not due to the 'nice and constant feedback'.
I guess GG is using different definitions of 'cross platform'. I know Apple is a big supporter of Torque these days, makes one wonder if they know the difficulties we face.
Hopefully Tiger/XCode 2.0 will ease our burden. Either that, or maybe GG will actually make good on their cross-platform boast.
There might even be some good suggestions in the forums this past week. I've stopped reading them. These days if I have a problem I just think about it and try other stuff. It seems to be quicker and more productive. Good thing that excellent documentation is coming soon!!!!!!
It's a little annoying.
#18
Josh said:
Actually, what it appears to be is that apple uses different definitions of 'protected application spaces':
Josh also said:
I'm absolutely certain that Apple has a lot more resources to fix the issue properly, and I'm also absolutely certain that you paid a lot more for your Mac then you paid for TGE. Finally, I'm 100% certain that GG will fix the issue before Apple will.
Until 1.4 is released, I would suggest exactly what Josh did: work on other aspects of your game, and be patient!
03/18/2005 (8:04 pm)
Has 1.4 been released yet? No. Now that T2D/EA and GDC are both completed, I would imagine that 1.4 is next.Josh said:
Quote:Sorry about the inconvenience, but I don't know what to say other than that we'll have a fix for the problem in the next release, and the whole reason this issue exists in the first place is due to the system framework system being too easy for other programs to clobber
Actually, what it appears to be is that apple uses different definitions of 'protected application spaces':
Josh also said:
Quote:Note as well that the next release of Torque will do this for you. We tried doing things Apple's "recommended" way w/ regards to frameworks and libs.. but we get issues like this when other programs (FFMPEGX might be an example) break the rules. So, now we have to do it the unrecommended way, which seems to work better for everyone.
I hope that you see the point. It's not out of neglect or anything that this problem exists. Apple's framework system isn't the prettiest beast around... we tried to handle frameworks via Apple's officially recommended practices, but when other programs clober up the system libs, we are left with problems.
So, bottom-line: even though this problem results from us following the recommended practices, we are addressing the issue in the next release, as you'll see noted here in the forums a few times already.
I'm absolutely certain that Apple has a lot more resources to fix the issue properly, and I'm also absolutely certain that you paid a lot more for your Mac then you paid for TGE. Finally, I'm 100% certain that GG will fix the issue before Apple will.
Until 1.4 is released, I would suggest exactly what Josh did: work on other aspects of your game, and be patient!
#19
The same old crap we get for not running Windows.
My ears work fine.
Things break along the way, I can handle that, but not to be handed something broken expecting it to be working.
Comparing the cost of the Mac to Torque is disgusting. They'd get the same complaints out of me if I had paid ten times the amount. Maybe if the picture was different: Why complain that the car has no seatbelts when it cost so little compared to the house? Do you complain if the food is bad at a restaurant or forego it due to the potential future investment in the girl you are dating? If you think I'm being extreme let's leave our differences there.
David: Thanks, now I know I'm not the only one paddling upstream.
By the way: Where is it in the blurb, together with the minimum specs, that you need a coder breathing over your shoulder?
Cheers,
Luis.
03/19/2005 (4:54 pm)
Stephen: I could have been much more productive if it had been working from the outset. 'Just' getting it to work, as some have, without sound is plain wrong. It's not the way I work. You might get by ok on 'getting by on what you have' but I dont. Mainly because it feels like you're working below the standard.The same old crap we get for not running Windows.
My ears work fine.
Things break along the way, I can handle that, but not to be handed something broken expecting it to be working.
Comparing the cost of the Mac to Torque is disgusting. They'd get the same complaints out of me if I had paid ten times the amount. Maybe if the picture was different: Why complain that the car has no seatbelts when it cost so little compared to the house? Do you complain if the food is bad at a restaurant or forego it due to the potential future investment in the girl you are dating? If you think I'm being extreme let's leave our differences there.
David: Thanks, now I know I'm not the only one paddling upstream.
By the way: Where is it in the blurb, together with the minimum specs, that you need a coder breathing over your shoulder?
Cheers,
Luis.
#20
I see...the content of your posts is becoming much more clear now, thanks!
03/19/2005 (5:44 pm)
@Luis: So you are willing to whine to GG about the fact that other applications broke your Mac development environment, but you aren't willing to whine to Apple about the same fact, when it's their development standards that are not being followed by other applications in the first place?I see...the content of your posts is becoming much more clear now, thanks!
Torque Owner Bruno Grieco
Check the mac forum, this issue have been discussed a lot.