RTS Pack Questions
by David Hecker · in Torque Game Engine · 12/20/2004 (6:10 am) · 7 replies
I work for a company that creates on-line games, but all in pre-rendered 2D environments. The software is multi player, and each person can select their own avatar and walk around to the various rooms to play the games on offer.
Because the 2D version of our software basically works the same way as an RTS, I am seriously considering using the new RTS Starter Kit in my prototype to convert these games to the 3D realm.
The questions I have are as follows:
1. How does the camera system work when inside an interior? Is there a seamless transition as with the default 1st/3rd person camera, or does the RTS camera not work too well indoors?
2. Obviously the RTS kit allows you to select troops and send them anywhere on the map they need to go. How different/difficult would it be to implement that same movement system onto a single main character? ie click somewhere on the level, and your avatar moves to that point. Moving multiple players at once is not necessary at all.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Because the 2D version of our software basically works the same way as an RTS, I am seriously considering using the new RTS Starter Kit in my prototype to convert these games to the 3D realm.
The questions I have are as follows:
1. How does the camera system work when inside an interior? Is there a seamless transition as with the default 1st/3rd person camera, or does the RTS camera not work too well indoors?
2. Obviously the RTS kit allows you to select troops and send them anywhere on the map they need to go. How different/difficult would it be to implement that same movement system onto a single main character? ie click somewhere on the level, and your avatar moves to that point. Moving multiple players at once is not necessary at all.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
#2
Now, that being said, and as David mentioned, there are quite a few projects that are using the RTS SK as a stepping stone to an "integrated genre" game of some form or another, and that includes bringing into the RTS SK (or the other way round) the ability to use different cameras available to Torque (mostly from the advanced Camera resource, although a couple of members have re-written their cameras from scratch) based on which portion of the "hybrid genre" game a particular player is playing.
For example, on my task list is integrating the "Orbit Cam" mode of the advanced Camera resource into our project again and integrate it fully with the RTS Camera, for exactly the purpose you describe--allowing control and movement of a single player character within not only the common "RTS genre" situations (outside, buildings are not enterable, etc.), but within buildings/interiors as well.
If I were willing to use the exact RTS Camera, but allow for movement inside interiors, in general here's what I would have to do:
1) Re-design the assumption that you are never inside interiors by:
a) allow for either removing the "top" of a building so you can see the player inside, or auto-positioning the camera so it is inside the interior as well.
b) implement mouse click collision with interiors as well as terrain/RTSUnits.
Those two areas are the only ones off the top of my head that would need work, and neither is particularly difficult (although would require a good design to work well).
In general, the RTS SK is an incredible addition to any project that needs any of the functionality it's designed for, but it was also carefully written so that it makes as few game-specific assumptions as possible--in other words, the assumptions that were used were very specific to the RTS genre, but of course can be refactored if your intentions are otherwise!
12/20/2004 (6:42 am)
The RTS-Starter Kit is exactly that--a starter kit for RTS specific game styles. In most/all "pure" RTS's, you don't commonly see movement inside interiors, so it's not part of the "stock" SK.Now, that being said, and as David mentioned, there are quite a few projects that are using the RTS SK as a stepping stone to an "integrated genre" game of some form or another, and that includes bringing into the RTS SK (or the other way round) the ability to use different cameras available to Torque (mostly from the advanced Camera resource, although a couple of members have re-written their cameras from scratch) based on which portion of the "hybrid genre" game a particular player is playing.
For example, on my task list is integrating the "Orbit Cam" mode of the advanced Camera resource into our project again and integrate it fully with the RTS Camera, for exactly the purpose you describe--allowing control and movement of a single player character within not only the common "RTS genre" situations (outside, buildings are not enterable, etc.), but within buildings/interiors as well.
If I were willing to use the exact RTS Camera, but allow for movement inside interiors, in general here's what I would have to do:
1) Re-design the assumption that you are never inside interiors by:
a) allow for either removing the "top" of a building so you can see the player inside, or auto-positioning the camera so it is inside the interior as well.
b) implement mouse click collision with interiors as well as terrain/RTSUnits.
Those two areas are the only ones off the top of my head that would need work, and neither is particularly difficult (although would require a good design to work well).
In general, the RTS SK is an incredible addition to any project that needs any of the functionality it's designed for, but it was also carefully written so that it makes as few game-specific assumptions as possible--in other words, the assumptions that were used were very specific to the RTS genre, but of course can be refactored if your intentions are otherwise!
#3
One more question on the cameras though:
Is it possible to use the RTS Camera while outside, then switch to a different camera when entering an interior, for example the Movie Camera system?
I am by no means an advanced or even intermediate programmer, and am trying to implement as many things as possible for this prototype without the programmers in the office getting involved :) They will of course take over from me at some stage to refine & finalise all the code.
Many thanks once again.
12/20/2004 (10:48 pm)
Thanks for the great replies! The people who play our games are not the most advanced computer users or game players, so I'm trying to make this transition to 3D as simple as possible for them. The basic theory of the RTS pack is exactly what I'm looking for.One more question on the cameras though:
Is it possible to use the RTS Camera while outside, then switch to a different camera when entering an interior, for example the Movie Camera system?
I am by no means an advanced or even intermediate programmer, and am trying to implement as many things as possible for this prototype without the programmers in the office getting involved :) They will of course take over from me at some stage to refine & finalise all the code.
Many thanks once again.
#4
While my team hasn't gotten to this milestone yet, it shouldn't be too difficult at all. Doing it well, as in anything, would probably imply a good background in programming and TGE.
Side note: instead of full html, this board supports a version of hypertext markup that can be reviewed by clicking on the line below your reply/edit window. For example, instead of anchors with an href, the way to display the same concept is {url=http://some.valid.site/page}My Anchor Name{/url} --except replace the curly braces with square brackets.
12/21/2004 (2:58 am)
Quote:Is it possible to use the RTS Camera while outside, then switch to a different camera when entering an interior
While my team hasn't gotten to this milestone yet, it shouldn't be too difficult at all. Doing it well, as in anything, would probably imply a good background in programming and TGE.
Side note: instead of full html, this board supports a version of hypertext markup that can be reviewed by clicking on the line below your reply/edit window. For example, instead of anchors with an href, the way to display the same concept is {url=http://some.valid.site/page}My Anchor Name{/url} --except replace the curly braces with square brackets.
#5
That at least opens up some future possibilities for me in terms of development and what I present vs what can be done later.
12/21/2004 (7:01 am)
Thanks a stack Stephen :)That at least opens up some future possibilities for me in terms of development and what I present vs what can be done later.
#6
...well besides still having a crappy system still and being poor. but now when i have time and the resourcese I'll accually be able to make more head way.
12/21/2004 (10:40 am)
YAY for RTS I was struggling to get my project ported to a RTS but never had a great dev system to code on. now I really don't have an excuse. doh! ...well besides still having a crappy system still and being poor. but now when i have time and the resourcese I'll accually be able to make more head way.
#7
I was wondering is it possible to make a very simple map of like a house kind of like "the sims house" and put a border so that it has a more 3d look? i asume that when this person is talking about "interior" that they are talking about haveing a transparency kind of effect, what im working on is creating a map that is ment to be maze like with walls and junk... mainly because every review I ever read people hate "invisible walls" so for this to be a high quality map I need to put in visble bounds. Anyone have any suggestions or if thats possible?
Thanks!
12/21/2004 (9:17 pm)
Hey I was wondering is it possible to make a very simple map of like a house kind of like "the sims house" and put a border so that it has a more 3d look? i asume that when this person is talking about "interior" that they are talking about haveing a transparency kind of effect, what im working on is creating a map that is ment to be maze like with walls and junk... mainly because every review I ever read people hate "invisible walls" so for this to be a high quality map I need to put in visble bounds. Anyone have any suggestions or if thats possible?
Thanks!
Employee David Montgomery-Blake
David MontgomeryBlake
2. Select a single character or have them always selected and click to move them. Movement for a single unit is the same as a whole lot of units, except that it doesn't have to deal with flocking algorithms and such.